IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[Foxfire]

The only reason LE hunker down like this is when they are running an active investigation with firm POI's.

Otherwise they go public to ask for help.

LE have asked for help in the early days but silence since.

This implies to me at least, they got that help.

There is a world of difference between having a POI and an excellent idea of what happened, and proving it without reasonable doubt in a courtroom.

I suggest the silence is because they are working the case.

In Daniel Morcombe's case it took 8 years, a coronial inquiry, and a undercover operation before an arrest was made, even though the perp was located in the first fortnight.

It takes time.

Have a read of how many "unsolved" murder cases have a POI wandering around, just because LE can't prove their theory to the level it requires to make a successful conviction.

Casey Anthony and OJ and John and Patsy Ramsey are examples of what can happen when a case is laid without enough hard evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

<respectfully BBM for Focus>

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bc5363a2-dcf1-11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html

New and old tips led to new appeal in abducted cousins case, chief says

June 25, 2013

EVANSDALE, Iowa --- A combination of new and old information prompted law enforcement Monday to renew a request for the public’s help in the ongoing investigation of the disappearance and deaths of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins.

 

[threecrazykids]

<respectfully BBM for Focus>

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_bc5363a2-dcf1-11e2-be6a-001a4bcf887a.html

New and old tips led to new appeal in abducted cousins case, chief says

June 25, 2013

EVANSDALE, Iowa --- A combination of new and old information prompted law enforcement Monday to renew a request for the public&#8217;s help in the ongoing investigation of the disappearance and deaths of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins.

I thought the "new and old tip" was all driven by the "older boxy white SUV" conundrum. LE stated that the original 2 tips were given during the early parts of the investigation (one during the re-canvassing) and the 3rd tip was from someone who "thought LE had already been made aware" of the white SUV.

With that said, I've never understood that whole SUV crap. Why does it matter if they have a new tip that references the white suv? They already had 2 people who mentioned seeing that SUV parked along Arbutus (and side streets) so what about this 3rd tip made that SUV so important? Did the people who turned in the info on the SUV early in the investigation just get ignored and now that this magical 3rd person came forward, they decide that it's important enough to plea for more info and only NOW it's possibly significant?

They said that they were "going back through the piles paperwork" and all of a sudden they realize that there was more than one report on the white SUV.
My question is how was this third person's info obtained? This person said that "she thought the information had already been given to LE" so it wasn't significant. So, how did they get the tip? Did someone call and tell LE that she also saw the SUV and they contacted her? What brought this 3rd tip to fruition?
I agree with her (if that's what she said). It WAS given to LE...but apparently wasn't worth pleading for public info, so why would she call it in? She said she thought LE knew about it (which they did) so if it were me and I knew two other people had called it in (chances are they are all neighbors) I wouldn't have called it in either. Cripes...if everyone on the entire block called it in it doesn't make it any MORE important does it? It was there, period. Why does 1, 2, or 20 calls about the same vehicle drive significance?I understand asking the public because maybe someone knows the owner...but why did this 3rd "tip" make that plea happen?

Apparently the first 2 tips that happened EARLY in the investigation when people's minds were fresh for details wasn't quite the information they felt they needed. Now? Let's plead for MORE info on the SUV a year later (right at the anniversary). Coincidence? Or a red herring?

I'm crabby today...clearly. LOL

:banghead:

 

[watcher9]

Good morning,
No you are not being crabby.
You made perfectly good sense to me.
I would have thought one tip would be enough to trigger an investigation. A lot of times that's all there is!
I can't imagine them not going over each tip as it came in instead of having a backlog of them that they are still muddling through.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I thought the "new and old tip" was all driven by the "older boxy white SUV" conundrum. LE stated that the original 2 tips were given during the early parts of the investigation (one during the re-canvassing) and the 3rd tip was from someone who "thought LE had already been made aware" of the white SUV.

With that said, I've never understood that whole SUV crap. Why does it matter if they have a new tip that references the white suv? They already had 2 people who mentioned seeing that SUV parked along Arbutus (and side streets) so what about this 3rd tip made that SUV so important? Did the people who turned in the info on the SUV early in the investigation just get ignored and now that this magical 3rd person came forward, they decide that it's important enough to plea for more info and only NOW it's possibly significant?

They said that they were "going back through the piles paperwork" and all of a sudden they realize that there was more than one report on the white SUV.
My question is how was this third person's info obtained? This person said that "she thought the information had already been given to LE" so it wasn't significant. So, how did they get the tip? Did someone call and tell LE that she also saw the SUV and they contacted her? What brought this 3rd tip to fruition?
I agree with her (if that's what she said). It WAS given to LE...but apparently wasn't worth pleading for public info, so why would she call it in? She said she thought LE knew about it (which they did) so if it were me and I knew two other people had called it in (chances are they are all neighbors) I wouldn't have called it in either. Cripes...if everyone on the entire block called it in it doesn't make it any MORE important does it? It was there, period. Why does 1, 2, or 20 calls about the same vehicle drive significance?I understand asking the public because maybe someone knows the owner...but why did this 3rd "tip" make that plea happen?

Apparently the first 2 tips that happened EARLY in the investigation when people's minds were fresh for details wasn't quite the information they felt they needed. Now? Let's plead for MORE info on the SUV a year later (right at the anniversary). Coincidence? Or a red herring?

I'm crabby today...clearly. LOL

:banghead:

You make a very good point, IMO. Why does the third witness make the sighting of the white SUV more important? It's puzzling.


I don't understand a lot of things about this case. All I know for sure is that Lyric and Lizzie are gone and we don't seem to know much more than we did a year ago. I hope LE knows a heck of a lot more than they're letting on.

 

[Foxfire]

Thoughts -

If they found DNA on the girls after all those months presumably outside, it indicates sexual assault.

Any DNA recovered would automatically be run through CODIS. I know "theres a backlog" blah blah but the FBI area also still on this one and probably had the results by the end of the day. It is a double murder of two innocent children after all, as such it would be top priority.

It all depends on what type of DNA they found. Was it touch, transfer, or deposited such as semen?

Was it expected (family, friends) or unexpected (stranger)?

Ugh....:sick:

Those poor girls.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/30/markie-lee-peoples-1995-rape_n_4175657.html

Markie Lee Peoples Charged With Kidnapping, Sexual Assault In Nearly 20-Year Cold Case
The Huffington Post | By Andrea Rael
Posted: 10/30/2013

Markie Lee Peoples is being charged with kidnapping and sexually assaulting a child in March of 1995 after the case was reviewed again this year by a Denver crime lab. The lab had reviewed the case in 2004 for DNA evidence and was able to find "biological material" on the victim's clothing, but it wasn't until this year that the lab and a Denver forensic scientist were able to develop a DNA profile thanks to advances in DNA technology.
<sniped-read more>

 

[24Roses]

Kind of OT, but I have been reading a lot of the cases on the Iowa Cold Cases website. In the one I was reading (a homicide from 1992) someone from LE said that in most cases there is a suspect, but just not enough evidence to make an arrest. Also, never get rid of any DNA or other evidence because no matter how small, they never know when it may be useful.

 

[24Roses]

In today's Waterloo Courier, there is a short article about a 17-yr.-old boy from Evansdale who was arrested for sexual abuse. It happened in the fall of 2008 to winter of 2011 when the girl was only 5 or 6 yrs.-old. He was hardly a teenager himself when it started. I've looked everywhere for a link, but can't find one yet. It does make you think...

 

[Marilynilpa]

In today's Waterloo Courier, there is a short article about a 17-yr.-old boy from Evansdale who was arrested for sexual abuse. It happened in the fall of 2008 to winter of 2011 when the girl was only 5 or 6 yrs.-old. He was hardly a teenager himself when it started. I've looked everywhere for a link, but can't find one yet. It does make you think...

Here's a link to the article you mentioned:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/cr...cle_d963a160-7608-5a10-8b74-4fbbf63e93be.html

There is also an article about the sexual assault of two teenage girls:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/cr...cle_8b55434d-94d1-5aaf-a5c5-f1c8709026d8.html

 

[Hejlena]

In a few years all paroled offenders will be implanted with a GPS chip.

They wont be able to run and they wont be able to hide.

Whether or not the gubmint also provides the funds to go get them, is another question for the future.

Trust me, it will happen. They will implant a chip somewhere inaccessible so it cant be cut off and left behind like they do now.

I know where they can plant it :angel:

 

[Bootsctr]

Am I the only one finding it odd that a COD hasn't been released yet?

I don't believe LE knows COD - only the killer and the girls - and I feel it was personal - they were choked.

 

[BunnyHop]

I'm still here, waiting and watching............

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't believe LE knows COD - only the killer and the girls - and I feel it was personal - they were choked.

I agree about COD. IMO, the condition of the remains made it impossible for COD to be determined. JMO.

I think the girls were either choked or suffocated. Again, JMO.

 

[tlcya]

I will third the COD thing. I feel there is no known COD because of the time elapsed from abduction to finding of bodies.

While I know it was debated that perhaps the bodies were placed there only recently prior to be found, I remain of the opinion that the girls were deceased before the afternoon was out and that their bodies were at Seven Bridges from that time forth.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I will third the COD thing. I feel there is no known COD because of the time elapsed from abduction to finding of bodies.

While I know it was debated that perhaps the bodies were placed there only recently prior to be found, I remain of the opinion that the girls were deceased before the afternoon was out and that their bodies were at Seven Bridges from that time forth.

BBM

That's what I think, too. I believe the girls' bodies where already at Seven Bridges by the time LE began their search for them.

I cannot believe this terrible crime was committed by a random person who just happened to be passing by, saw the girls, and took them. I continue to believe this was planned from start to finish by the perp, including the choice of Seven Bridges. I also believe the perp participated in searches for Lyric and Lizzie, and later participated in vigils and memorials for the girls. JMO.

 

[Foxfire]

I don't believe LE knows COD - only the killer and the girls - and I feel it was personal - they were choked.

Strangulation usually breaks the hyoid bone located in the neck. The autopsy would have determined if they were choked, imo..
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/ta_cause_of_death.htm

 

[Marilynilpa]

Strangulation usually breaks the hyoid bone located in the neck. The autopsy would have determined if they were choked, imo..
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/ta_cause_of_death.htm

BBM

That's true, assuming the remains were intact enough for the coroner to locate the hyoid bone. JMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The more I've been reading about remains in the open the more I'm amazed that the girls seem to have been found more or less "intact".

As there's been no reference to bone scatter or ongoing searching...I'm guessing only, but it seems as though they may more or less have been in one piece.

This is unusual and makes me wonder if they were wrapped somehow or perhaps kept alive for some of the time.

Then again maybe they weren't complete, LE just haven't told us...

 

[tlcya]

so much LE seems to have withheld. frustrating.

 

[alliemay]

The more I've been reading about remains in the open the more I'm amazed that the girls seem to have been found more or less "intact".

As there's been no reference to bone scatter or ongoing searching...I'm guessing only, but it seems as though they may more or less have been in one piece.

This is unusual and makes me wonder if they were wrapped somehow or perhaps kept alive for some of the time.

Then again maybe they weren't complete, LE just haven't told us...

Good observation about the fact that no other searches were conducted, I agree with you that they were probably intact. I also think they may have been wrapped in something, I had thought about a garbage bag or a tarp maybe.

I also agree with Marilyn that the killer probably helped with the searches for the girls. But in my opinion I don't think the girls were at Seven Bridges during the initial search. I still think there were killed at another location but not kept alive for very long. It's possible that the killer waited to see if LE was actually going to take the time to drain the lake. Aware of the "distraction" the killer was able to plan taking the girls to Seven Bridges. I keep wondering if he used a boat to hide the bodies to take them there. I still think Lyric may have put up a fight. I wish someone would remember if they knew of anyone at that time that had unexplained marks on their face or arms. Wishful thinking I know.

 

[watcher9]

If they were found wrapped/bagged, it would be interesting to know how or with what material?
It did take three days to process the scene so there may have been some bone disarticulation that may have occurred. Didn't some of the pictures show extra marker flags posted around the bodies? Other than the pictures showing a couple of LE standing near the two tarp(?)sites, do we have any pictures of LE actually processing or working the scene in the days afterwards?
I think of how the LE processed the scene of Little Caylee's remains which were scattered or buried in the mud, but I picture this scene as being hard and dry and much easier to process.

Officers with Evansdale police, the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, FBI, Iowa State Patrol, Iowa Department of Natural Resources and Black Hawk and Bremer county sheriff&#8217;s offices blocked off the former county park while they worked around the clock to process the scene and gather evidence for three days. They left late Friday.
and
Two small strips of yellow tape declaring &#8220;Caution Sheriff Line Do Not Cross&#8221; remain tied to logs, and an occasional orange-and-silver striped ribbon marker can be seen in the brush.

Tall grass that once covered the area was cut in the search, and bushes and saplings were clipped.
and
&#8220;The evidence that was taken out there and so forth, it&#8217;s all got to be processed,&#8221; Abben said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_eb5c81b6-42db-11e2-b39a-001a4bcf887a.html