IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[watcher9]

I'm trying to find it too. I remember hearing it but thought it was from NG breaking one of her bombshells.
I'm reading in thread #21 where news of the discovery of the girls was first released.
On pg 8 post #177 by angelainwi was the first to post breaking news.
On pg 11 post #275 by peeples was the first to post the LE announcement in the PC that they had found the bodies.
I'm up to pg 14 now and they are still calling it the crime scene.

 

[alliemay]

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981801292

Ok it must have been this article that I read that.

....ok it wouldn't let me post it???? It was by Jane Valez anyway.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/12/06/who-killed-lyric-and-elizabeth

 

[threecrazykids]

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981801292

Ok it must have been this article that I read that.

....ok it wouldn't let me post it???? It was by Jane Valez anyway.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/12/06/who-killed-lyric-and-elizabeth

Yes, it was JVM. If you type into a search engine "Elizabeth Collins Lyric Cook transcript" you can find almost every CNN transcript of the case.

I remember clearly it being JVM. She was speaking with a reporter at the time.

 

[Sunlight]

"That said, my sources tell me the following, which we can report: No. 1, bodies were not found, according to my sources, smack dab next to each other. They were found about 40 to 50 feet next to each other.

The second key point is the theory right now is that this was the dump site. That they are looking for the primary murder scene. In other words, where the bodies were found is not where these two little girls were killed.

In addition, I am told...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Let`s stop you right there. You`re saying the location where the bodies were found is, according to your police sources, not where the girls were killed, correct?

LIEBERMAN: That is correct. Police are looking for the primary murder scene."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...6/ijvm.01.html

The link doesn't seem to work, however, this was posted in a comment by Marilynilpa back in April.

 

[SapphireSteel]

For those who think 15 months is a long time, I've been hanging out on Youtube watching a bunch of forensic/investigation type shows.

In some cases, they have everything - suspicion, motive, means, suspect - but they just don't have that one thing that gets them over the line.

I was watching an Aus show about a female being raped and murdered and dumped, it was a taxi driver, but they didn't arrest him for 13 years because they didn't have PROOF, even though they had several eyewitnesses who saw him pick her up, and suspicious stains in his cab, him with a history and lying his head off too.

The arrest finally came when those stains were finally able to be analysed - due to the invention of DNA testing.

Maybe that's the case here. Just one tiny link that cannot be made despite mountains of circumstantial and eye witness evidence.

Six months lying in the rain would have got rid of most of the DNA which is pretty much mandatory these days.

:twocents:

ETA: I wonder if the girls were found far apart because they got washed apart after being left in the creek? Another well known DNA destroyer.

 

[alliemay]

"That said, my sources tell me the following, which we can report: No. 1, bodies were not found, according to my sources, smack dab next to each other. They were found about 40 to 50 feet next to each other.

The second key point is the theory right now is that this was the dump site. That they are looking for the primary murder scene. In other words, where the bodies were found is not where these two little girls were killed.

In addition, I am told...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Let`s stop you right there. You`re saying the location where the bodies were found is, according to your police sources, not where the girls were killed, correct?

LIEBERMAN: That is correct. Police are looking for the primary murder scene."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...6/ijvm.01.html

The link doesn't seem to work, however, this was posted in a comment by Marilynilpa back in April.

The second link works, it actually a video, thanks for looking back through the previous threads.

 

[Squeeze]

For those who think 15 months is a long time, I've been hanging out on Youtube watching a bunch of forensic/investigation type shows.

In some cases, they have everything - suspicion, motive, means, suspect - but they just don't have that one thing that gets them over the line.

I was watching an Aus show about a female being raped and murdered and dumped, it was a taxi driver, but they didn't arrest him for 13 years because they didn't have PROOF, even though they had several eyewitnesses who saw him pick her up, and suspicious stains in his cab, him with a history and lying his head off too.

The arrest finally came when those stains were finally able to be analysed - due to the invention of DNA testing.

Maybe that's the case here. Just one tiny link that cannot be made despite mountains of circumstantial and eye witness evidence.

Six months lying in the rain would have got rid of most of the DNA which is pretty much mandatory these days.

:twocents:

ETA: I wonder if the girls were found far apart because they got washed apart after being left in the creek? Another well known DNA destroyer.

The bodies wouldn't have washed, because remember it was a drought year. There was very little rain between July and December, and I believe they were found on somewhat high ground, where the water never flowed.

I agree with what you're saying about the evidence. There simply might be one tidbit of info that ties it all together. Let's say the suspect drives the white SUV and LE know this. They might even have the vehicle. They have several people who reported seeing a white SUV. But there are a lot of them, so they aren't sure if they saw the SAME SUV or THE SUV. Maybe there's something special about this vehicle. A bumper sticker? A cover over the spare tire? No spare tire? They are asking for witnesses to come forward who might remember this info, but haven't released this info publicly.

What if the perp had put the girls in something like a rug or a tarp? I wonder if such an item(s) was/were found at the scene where the bodies were found? Maybe they have it, but can't tie it to the suspect?

I still feel there are details such as these that are not being shared. JMO opinion.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Does anyone local know if a snowplow guy owned a white truck? Just wondering since snow would be a problem & a snow plow would be needed to dig out a driveway or roadways at times. I remember when...burrrrr. Take off the plow when the season is over and add a topper, you got a white SUV possibly? Just a thought. tia

 

[alliemay]

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/12/05/jvm-iowa-cousins?clusterId=60#videoplayer

Right after the bodies were found there were looking for registered sex offenders from Bremer, they also talked about a meth connection in the same sentence. LE said they checked out sex offenders from Evansdale and I'm sure they also did an extensive search of the sex offenders from Bermer County. It was a little disheartening though to find a article about RSO's who are going under ground, because of the new laws, which makes it hard for LE to actually keep track of these people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/national/15offenders.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

This was published in 2006, it made me wonder how many abandoned buildings or trailers are in the twenty mile stretch between Evansdale and Seven Bridges?

 

[Squeeze]

Does anyone local know if a snowplow guy owned a white truck? Just wondering since snow would be a problem & a snow plow would be needed to dig out a driveway or roadways at times. I remember when...burrrrr. Take off the plow when the season is over and add a topper, you got a white SUV possibly? Just a thought. tia

I do not, but I will definitely keep my eyes peeled now that we are approaching that season. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Marilynilpa]

Smock may have misspoken when he said “this is speculation but if the DNA from our case matched up with this guy, we would go forward no matter what was happening.” But I think his comment means usable DNA was found. JMO.

So, if usable DNA was found but no arrest has been made, what does that mean? Here is something from the Iowa DCI regarding DNA:

Should cases without suspects be submitted?

Yes. "No Suspect" crimes against persons should be submitted for testing. In many cases DNA evidence left at the scene may be the only link to potential perpetrators. The DNA profiles obtained from "No Suspect" cases are placed into a computer database and searched against DNA profiles from convicted offenders as well as evidentiary samples from additional "No Suspect" cases.

snip

CODIS has proven to be an effective tool for providing investigative leads to law enforcement agencies. This is particularly true when no suspect has yet been developed. Upon entry into CODIS a DNA profile may be compared to DNA profiles obtained from Crime Laboratories across the country for potential matches. This exchange of information allows a DNA profile from one crime scene to be linked to a separate crime scene in a different jurisdiction. Additionally, CODIS eligible DNA profiles will also be compared to DNA profiles obtained from individuals convicted of qualifying offenses.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/DCI/lab/dna/

The National DNA Index (NDIS) contains over 10,581,700 offender profiles, 1,641,400 arrestee profiles and 514,700 forensic profiles as of September 2013.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics

So if DNA was found and compared to all of the CODIS entries, and no hit was made, that rules out a heck of a lot of people.

This makes me think our perp might be a first time offender or someone who has not been caught (yet). Someone like Austin Sigg, who killed Jessica Ridgeway in Colorado. JMO.

On the other hand, there is a backlog of DNA samples waiting to be processed across the country, so maybe our perp's sample just hasn't made it to CODIS yet.

I hope this stirs up a few comments!

 

[watcher9]

Thanks for the informative info in your links.
It would seem that the backlog lies not necessarily in the testing, but in the entry process itself. How are the DNA samples processed into the system - manually or by computer transfer?
I was surprised that some DNA could be turned down if it was not obtained from the actual crime scene.
It also led me to wonder if DNA is sometimes not taken when a suspect commits suicide?

 

[cindersoot]

I feel sick that this case is not solved, just sick.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Smock may have misspoken when he said “this is speculation but if the DNA from our case matched up with this guy, we would go forward no matter what was happening.” But I think his comment means usable DNA was found. JMO.

So, if usable DNA was found but no arrest has been made, what does that mean? Here is something from the Iowa DCI regarding DNA:

Should cases without suspects be submitted?

Yes. "No Suspect" crimes against persons should be submitted for testing. In many cases DNA evidence left at the scene may be the only link to potential perpetrators. The DNA profiles obtained from "No Suspect" cases are placed into a computer database and searched against DNA profiles from convicted offenders as well as evidentiary samples from additional "No Suspect" cases.

snip

CODIS has proven to be an effective tool for providing investigative leads to law enforcement agencies. This is particularly true when no suspect has yet been developed. Upon entry into CODIS a DNA profile may be compared to DNA profiles obtained from Crime Laboratories across the country for potential matches. This exchange of information allows a DNA profile from one crime scene to be linked to a separate crime scene in a different jurisdiction. Additionally, CODIS eligible DNA profiles will also be compared to DNA profiles obtained from individuals convicted of qualifying offenses.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/DCI/lab/dna/

The National DNA Index (NDIS) contains over 10,581,700 offender profiles, 1,641,400 arrestee profiles and 514,700 forensic profiles as of September 2013.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/ndis-statistics

So if DNA was found and compared to all of the CODIS entries, and no hit was made, that rules out a heck of a lot of people.

This makes me think our perp might be a first time offender or someone who has not been caught (yet). Someone like Austin Sigg, who killed Jessica Ridgeway in Colorado. JMO.

On the other hand, there is a backlog of DNA samples waiting to be processed across the country, so maybe our perp's sample just hasn't made it to CODIS yet.

I hope this stirs up a few comments!

Thoughts -

If they found DNA on the girls after all those months presumably outside, it indicates sexual assault.

Any DNA recovered would automatically be run through CODIS. I know "theres a backlog" blah blah but the FBI area also still on this one and probably had the results by the end of the day. It is a double murder of two innocent children after all, as such it would be top priority.

It all depends on what type of DNA they found. Was it touch, transfer, or deposited such as semen?

Was it expected (family, friends) or unexpected (stranger)?

Ugh....:sick:

Those poor girls.

 

[SapphireSteel]

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/12/05/jvm-iowa-cousins?clusterId=60#videoplayer

Right after the bodies were found there were looking for registered sex offenders from Bremer, they also talked about a meth connection in the same sentence. LE said they checked out sex offenders from Evansdale and I'm sure they also did an extensive search of the sex offenders from Bermer County. It was a little disheartening though to find a article about RSO's who are going under ground, because of the new laws, which makes it hard for LE to actually keep track of these people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/national/15offenders.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

This was published in 2006, it made me wonder how many abandoned buildings or trailers are in the twenty mile stretch between Evansdale and Seven Bridges?

In a few years all paroled offenders will be implanted with a GPS chip.

They wont be able to run and they wont be able to hide.

Whether or not the gubmint also provides the funds to go get them, is another question for the future.

Trust me, it will happen. They will implant a chip somewhere inaccessible so it cant be cut off and left behind like they do now.

 

[cindersoot]

Does anyone have any ideas to as why LE is so hush, hush?

 

[Foxfire]

Does anyone have any ideas to as why LE is so hush, hush?

1. Lab results haven't come back or inconclusive; too deteriorated for testing..

2. Lab results pointed to MJK, & the investigation is continuing for other unknown victims..

3. Their/Investigators conclusions are an embarrassment to the investigation due to the antiquated close to the vest silence investigative strategy; "dropped the ball"...

JMHO...Feel free to add ideas...

 

[dotr]

Came across this recent news link concerning a jailed pedophile rapist in Canada, who preferred to kidnap girls in pairs,or if it was an adult woman, he would choose someone who had a child with them.
Posting here as it may shed light on the mindset of one who would abduct two children at a time. The reasons are truly evil, imo.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/10/2...ht-confronts-vicious-child-rapist-at-hearings
bbm.
"Known for using a paper bag to mask his identity or to cover his victim’s head, Oughton was a master of deceit and disguise who often lured targets — mainly prepubescent girls — by asking their help in finding a lost puppy.

He liked to take children in pairs, and wasn’t above callously ordering both victims to choose which of the two he’d assault — and when he did prey upon adult women, it was usually when they had a child with them, who’d be forced to witness the attack"


>>snip>>


"At 13, Aguirre was assaulted by Oughton at gunpoint while her younger cousin stood by. The man told them he had but a single bullet, and if either of them turned to look at his face, he’d chop up the cousin while the older girl watched, before being shot"

 

[Marilynilpa]

Thanks for the informative info in your links.
It would seem that the backlog lies not necessarily in the testing, but in the entry process itself. How are the DNA samples processed into the system - manually or by computer transfer?
I was surprised that some DNA could be turned down if it was not obtained from the actual crime scene.
It also led me to wonder if DNA is sometimes not taken when a suspect commits suicide?

I've read of a case where a suicide victim was found to be a killer via DNA testing. I'll see if I can find a link.

My assumption is that LE doesn't routinely take DNA from suicides, but does take it when the suicide is suspected in a serious crime. JMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Does anyone have any ideas to as why LE is so hush, hush?

The only reason LE hunker down like this is when they are running an active investigation with firm POI's.

Otherwise they go public to ask for help.

LE have asked for help in the early days but silence since.

This implies to me at least, they got that help.

There is a world of difference between having a POI and an excellent idea of what happened, and proving it without reasonable doubt in a courtroom.

I suggest the silence is because they are working the case.

In Daniel Morcombe's case it took 8 years, a coronial inquiry, and a undercover operation before an arrest was made, even though the perp was located in the first fortnight.

It takes time.

Have a read of how many "unsolved" murder cases have a POI wandering around, just because LE can't prove their theory to the level it requires to make a successful conviction.

Casey Anthony and OJ and John and Patsy Ramsey are examples of what can happen when a case is laid without enough hard evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt.