IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[B4igo2it]

snipped: Former prosecutor Kelly Siegler serves up Cold Justice on hit crime-solving TV show By Tarra Gaines 9.24.13 | 6 am

"... Cold Justice can only investigate at the invitation of local law enforcement."

“They hear about this show and hear that we’ve had some success, and probably get their hopes all up. They contact us, and then we have to tell them ‘You have to talk to your cop.’ The local cops have to feel a need for us before we can do anything. I don’t know. There’s nothing else I could do to help them." (Kelly comment)

Though no decision has been announced about a second season, the Cold Justice team is seeking new, old cases from around the country. Perhaps for some victims’ families help might be on the way." (From article)

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...secutor-kelly-siegler-serves-up-cold-justice/

Maybe each of us should put in a request to LE to consider using this team to attempt to solve the mystery of who did this to Lyric & Elizabeth ???? What do you all think?

 

[threecrazykids]

snipped: Former prosecutor Kelly Siegler serves up Cold Justice on hit crime-solving TV show By Tarra Gaines 9.24.13 | 6 am

"... Cold Justice can only investigate at the invitation of local law enforcement."

“They hear about this show and hear that we’ve had some success, and probably get their hopes all up. They contact us, and then we have to tell them ‘You have to talk to your cop.’ The local cops have to feel a need for us before we can do anything. I don’t know. There’s nothing else I could do to help them." (Kelly comment)

Though no decision has been announced about a second season, the Cold Justice team is seeking new, old cases from around the country. Perhaps for some victims’ families help might be on the way." (From article)

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...secutor-kelly-siegler-serves-up-cold-justice/

Maybe each of us should put in a request to LE to consider using this team to attempt to solve the mystery of who did this to Lyric & Elizabeth ???? What do you all think?

I personally think it's a GREAT idea...however I would put my next paycheck on it (actually, maybe my annual salary on it) that even if they had 5000 signatures they wouldn't call in Cold Justice to help solve this case.

I think it's a great idea though! I think getting ANYONE in there that would ruffle some feathers would be a good thing. HIGHLY unlikely, but a GREAT idea!

 

[Bootsctr]

I personally think it's a GREAT idea...however I would put my next paycheck on it (actually, maybe my annual salary on it) that even if they had 5000 signatures they wouldn't call in Cold Justice to help solve this case.

I think it's a great idea though! I think getting ANYONE in there that would ruffle some feathers would be a good thing. HIGHLY unlikely, but a GREAT idea!

Yes, I agree. I do not think BHC LE would be willing to bring anyone to help them with L&E's case at this point. I would put up my paycheck too against BHC allowing anyone in at this point. Whatever they "evidence" have (and I feel it is all circumstantial at this point) they would be unwilling to allow "Cold Justice" have a look. Sad. . . . maybe ten years down the road someone's ego might allow "Cold Justice" a chance at solving the case. I think Kelly and Yolanda would definitely be able to point BHC investigators in the right direction. As these ladies point out in Cold Justice, it's always good to have a fresh set of eyes looking at the evidence. :twocents:

 

[Bootsctr]

When Kelly worked in the DA's office in Houston she prosecuted a murder case (Susan Wright) where she brought a bed into the court room and showed how Susan stabbed her husband 193 times. Susan then tried to bury her dead hubby in her yard but it is not easy to dig a grave in Houston! My ex used to work with Susan's husband saying he was a great guy and she was a nutcase. Susan has appealed her conviction and asked for a new trial that has been denied.

Kelly Siegler is one smart cookie that I admire greatly! :websleuther:

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0SO...secutor-kelly-siegler-serves-up-cold-justice/

Kelly's bio:
http://kellysieglerlaw.com/bio.php
Susan Wright Murder case from 48 hrs:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-18559_162-10007022.html

Thank you B4igo2it! You really were "close" to the Susan Wright case! Stabbed 193 times. The anger of it all just :scared: So true about that Houston soil too! lol! Going to read more about Susan Wright's case. Her poor husband! Glad she got nailed. Great news that a new trial was denied to her. Kelly Siegler is a little spitfire and so is Yolanda! :loveyou:

 

[Bootsctr]

snipped: Former prosecutor Kelly Siegler serves up Cold Justice on hit crime-solving TV show By Tarra Gaines 9.24.13 | 6 am

"... Cold Justice can only investigate at the invitation of local law enforcement."

“They hear about this show and hear that we’ve had some success, and probably get their hopes all up. They contact us, and then we have to tell them ‘You have to talk to your cop.’ The local cops have to feel a need for us before we can do anything. I don’t know. There’s nothing else I could do to help them." (Kelly comment)

Though no decision has been announced about a second season, the Cold Justice team is seeking new, old cases from around the country. Perhaps for some victims’ families help might be on the way." (From article)

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...secutor-kelly-siegler-serves-up-cold-justice/

Maybe each of us should put in a request to LE to consider using this team to attempt to solve the mystery of who did this to Lyric & Elizabeth ???? What do you all think?

Forgot to add! :facepalm: I absolutely think this is an AMAZING suggestion! :loveyou: :tyou: I'm all for it, I just don't think the time is right for Lyric and Elizabeth's case. . . unfortunately. However, I would love for Kelly and Yolanda to look into perhaps Bob Harrod's case ? or some of the older unsolved cases where LE would be open to Kelly and Yolanda and their crew coming in with fresh eyes. :dunno: :websleuther:

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's important to remember this investigation is NOT cold.

It is ongoing, hasn't been shelved, isn't about to be shelved.

I believe there will be arrests very soon (although I remember saying that this time last year

Keep the faith! In Daniel Morcombe's case, it took Qld police eight long hard years before they finally had enough to arrest the perp, who came to notice in the first week.

 

[Snowbunny]

I would venture to guess that LE has a pretty good idea of what happened to the girls and who is responsible for the wrong that was done to these little angels, but until they have enough evidence to convict LE won't say a word. They rarely do.

 

[cluciano63]

I would venture to guess that LE has a pretty good idea of what happened to the girls and who is responsible for the wrong that was done to these little angels, but until they have enough evidence to convict LE won't say a word. They rarely do.

If they do not have enough evidence fifteen months after the murders...maybe the public could be of help, if they had anything to work with. Not sure silence from LE will provide the links they may need.

 

[Bootsctr]

I can see several different ways the girls could have been abducted without the perp leaving indisputable forensic evidence at the site (which I believe is Meyers Lake). For instance, even if he drank a soda there and the soda can was collected, it would be difficult to know in advance whether that soda can was significant or not amongst all the other litter that was no doubt picked up. It is a public place and there was probably stuff with DNA from 100 different people lying around.

I can also see how the perp probably lucked out and decomposition destroyed a lot of forensic evidence left at 7 Bridges.

Circumstantial cases can be difficult to prove. What if LE can trace Klunder's movements up until the evening of Thursday 12 July and can trace him again starting Monday morning 16 July. That sure covers the window when Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted but it's not any sort of proof of anything but opportunity. It is suggestive, sure, but not conclusive of anything.

I've been following the case of Tammy Zywicki from the beginning, in part because of her connection to Iowa (she was a student at Grinnell College when she was killed). In her case there have been a couple different possible suspects but it all hinges on circumstantial evidence in each case. My personal top suspect is now dead, so it may never be solved. I have to admit that for every bit of circumstantial evidence that points to him, there is something that points away. LE was never able to get enough evidence against him to make an arrest before he died (10 years later).

Sometimes there's a case where a possible perp can neither be arrested or cleared.

I think Tammy Zywicki's case would be an excellent cold case for Cold Justice! I forgot in Bob Harrod's case LE has never found his body. I think with Tammy Zywicki LE did recover her body. I am reading up on her case also. My husband thinks my OCD is working overtime, but it is just so and frustrating there are SO MANY unsolved cold cases. The families of all these people deserve answers. I cannot imagine what the families go through every day wondering who murdered their loved one and why. Makes me so sad to think about it.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I don't think local LE would allow anyone to peer into the case. If they aren't willing to ask the public for help, I doubt they'd be willing to ask other professionals.

While they may eventually make an arrest in this case, I don't think they have a clue right now who is responsible.

It is my opinion only that the first couple of weeks are crucial to solving a case, and I personally think they were way off base and had the focus in the wrong place from the beginning.

MOO IMO etc

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think there are still people who have info they haven't shared with LE. Maybe they don't realize they know anything important, or perhaps they are scared for some reason. I think the proper person(s) will eventually be held accountable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Squeeze]

I don't think local LE would allow anyone to peer into the case. If they aren't willing to ask the public for help, I doubt they'd be willing to ask other professionals.

While they may eventually make an arrest in this case, I don't think they have a clue right now who is responsible.

It is my opinion only that the first couple of weeks are crucial to solving a case, and I personally think they were way off base and had the focus in the wrong place from the beginning.

MOO IMO etc

I disagree. They have been asking the public for help. They just haven't shared a lot of what they DO know.

I also think that they have someone in mind. JMO and all that fun stuff.

 

[tlcya]

just checking in on our girls and wishing for something to break. Still awaiting that big arrest. Trying to keep the faith that someone will eventually be charged with their murders. Some days more successfully than others.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Angels Park continues growth with community support
Posted: Oct 24, 2013 1:58 PM MST

http://www.kwwl.com/story/23782876/...h-with-community-support#.UmmwtpHPbyM.twitter

 

[threecrazykids]

Good morning everyone! I am still re-reading some older articles in an attempt to find anything new to discuss. :blushing:

I was reading the Iowa RSO's requirements etc. and have run across something that has me thinking...

Per the Iowa Code 081 (below) it states that all RSO's are required to provide a DNA sample.

PERSONS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A DNA SAMPLE.
1. A person who receives a deferred judgment for a felony or
against whom a judgment or conviction for a felony has been entered
shall be required to submit a DNA sample for DNA profiling pursuant
to section 81.4.
2. A person determined to be a sexually violent predator pursuant
to chapter 229A shall be required to submit a DNA sample for DNA
profiling pursuant to section 81.4 prior to discharge or placement in
a transitional release program.
3. A person found not guilty by reason of insanity of an offense
that requires DNA profiling shall be required to submit a DNA sample
for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4 as part of the person's
treatment management program.
4. A juvenile adjudicated delinquent of an offense that requires
DNA profiling of an adult offender shall be required to submit a DNA
sample for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4 as part of the
disposition of the juvenile's case.
5. An offender placed on probation shall immediately report to
the judicial district department of correctional services after
sentencing so it can be determined if the offender has been convicted
of an offense requiring DNA profiling. If it is determined by the
judicial district that DNA profiling is required, the offender shall
immediately submit a DNA sample.
6. A person required to register as a sex offender shall submit a
DNA sample for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4.
I also found this article:

http://www.kcrg.com/home/top-9/Poli...e-Connection-To-Evansdale-Case-209346601.html

SBM:

“We don’t want to reveal information that jeopardizes our investigation,” he said.

Investigators have kept secret whether DNA evidence was found with Elizabeth's and Lyric's bodies.

If the killer's DNA was found, it would be standard procedure to compare the profile with a national database of DNA of known offenders. As a registered sex offender and felon, Klunder’s DNA is included in that database.

“This is speculation but if the DNA from our case matched up with this guy, we would go forward no matter what was happening,” Smock said.


Do you think this is maybe a slip up by Smock when he mentions "the DNA in our case"?
He does say "this is speculation" but the way he worded "the DNA in our case" he references it as possessive instead of just stating "if DNA had been found" etc. using it as a vague statement of processing a crime scene.

IMO if there was DNA found (which I do believe there was given these snippets of info along the way) we would maybe be able to rule out RSO's, wouldn't we?

RSO's are all required to provide DNA. IF there was DNA found in, on, or around the girls that was salvageable there would have likely been a match up, no?

So what (if anything) can we derive from that assumption? IF there was salvageable DNA, we can rule out any REGISTERED offenders, yes? Or no?

 

[watcher9]

Good morning!

I think we already talked about this, but maybe not.
I was thinking that we found that MK avoided the DNA law for some reason, either by the timing or the actual wording of his offense.

Who's to say that "the DNA in this case" belongs to a RSO or some other criminal?
What if the DNA he's talking about actually belonged to the girls? Maybe they were hoping they could find some of the girls' DNA in a truck/trunk/clothes/murder weapon/location?

Whichever way, I hope they did find something to use that could help solve this case.

 

[threecrazykids]

Good morning!

I think we already talked about this, but maybe not.
I was thinking that we found that MK avoided the DNA law for some reason, either by the timing or the actual wording of his offense.

Who's to say that "the DNA in this case" belongs to a RSO or some other criminal?
What if the DNA he's talking about actually belonged to the girls? Maybe they were hoping they could find some of the girls' DNA in a truck/trunk/clothes/murder weapon/location?

Whichever way, I hope they did find something to use that could help solve this case.

:seeya:

I agree...the DNA (if found) doesn't necessarily belong to a RSO.

Wasn't there an article (I'll go search) where they said that "evidence" from Klunder and L&L had been sent for testing?
I wouldn't think they would need to really search for DNA from the girls would they? There would be DNA items all over the girls houses (not to mention their bodies)...toothbrushes, hair, etc. if they needed some form of DNA for a match up.
I just wonder if that was a slip when he said "if the DNA from our case". I'm a nit picker when it comes to how people word sentences so I'm probably making more of it than I should. :blushing:

 

[alliemay]

:seeya:

I agree...the DNA (if found) doesn't necessarily belong to a RSO.

Wasn't there an article (I'll go search) where they said that "evidence" from Klunder and L&L had been sent for testing?
I wouldn't think they would need to really search for DNA from the girls would they? There would be DNA items all over the girls houses (not to mention their bodies)...toothbrushes, hair, etc. if they needed some form of DNA for a match up.
I just wonder if that was a slip when he said "if the DNA from our case". I'm a nit picker when it comes to how people word sentences so I'm probably making more of it than I should. :blushing:

I don't think that you are reading more into it, I think you are "nit" picking something that is important. (I'm glad that you nit pick I wonder if they are being vague because they want the killer to believe that they have no DNA evidence? Something else I was wondering about recently, I know we have talked about this before but, the words, "dumping ground" to describe the crime scene at Seven Bridges keeps sticking in my mind. I wonder if they found any other garbage around the girls or not far from the girls. Garbage from someone recently camping there? Or even if the girls had been put in garbage bags. If so decomp would have taken longer, I would think not sure though. LE is not going to divulge much because the killer is still out there in my opinion.

 

[watcher9]

Did LE or Nancy Grace say "dumping ground"?

 

[alliemay]

Did LE or Nancy Grace say "dumping ground"?

I think it was a reporter but I could be wrong, I know I saw the phrase somewhere, but when I went to look for it again I could not find it.

The same thing happened with the "rumor" that the girls stopped and asked for directions at the store. It was a fb rumor so we were not allowed to discuss it, and then afterwards you could no longer find that info again.