IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[SapphireSteel]

Since the children were transported 20 miles away, I think it's safe to assume that the assault was in the vehicle ... perhaps an older, boxy SUV.

Just pointing out that we do not know if the girls were assaulted, in a vehicle or outside of one.

That remains speculation until COD is released, if ever.

 

[Sunlight]

There has been no indication whatsoever, that Misty and Dan were together as a couple just prior to the disappearance of the girls. Misty had a boyfriend, JW, at the time of the disappearance IIRC. JW was arrested on the 20th, and the car he was in was towed. It was on the 19th IIRC that Dan and Misty were in the hotel room together for whatever reason. When Lyric and her cousin, Tammy's daughter, were late in coming home while they were in Waterloo, about 4 days before the disappearance, Dan was not with Misty..Misty called him on the phone. It was after the disappearance that Dan and Misty were seen together several times in interviews, etc. They are married still today, and it is their business if they choose to be together married or not, rehab or not, jail or not. None of it indicates that they were involved in the killing of "their" own daughter and "their" niece any more than any other members of the family. MOO

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I was just reading about other abduction cases in Iowa and came across the following comment from Gerard Meyers, assistant director of field operations of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation. I think this tells use that zip ties were used in the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth:

"Potential connections are already being analyzed between Kathlynn Shepard's murder and the slayings of two eastern Iowa cousins ...

Meyers said authorities will take a two-pronged approach to any comparisons: laboratory analysis of forensic evidence ...

Meyers pointed to the zip ties that Klunder used as one possible point of comparison. Offenders sometimes use the same methods repeatedly, he said."

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...FkyCd5ZlZV7SbtNlv-a4RwA&bvm=bv.52434380,d.cGE

Good catch, Otto!

Ideal would be that some of the perp's DNA was on the zip ties but considering the slick plastic surface and the amount of time in the elements, ideal may be far from describing the condition of those zip ties.

And, unfortunately, Klunder is far from being the first perp to use zip ties during a crime.

Argh, every time I read of something that might implicate Klunder, there is something else that un-implicates him. He's like one of those bottom weighted toys that always pops up again when tipped one way or the other.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

They weren't supposed to be living together, and they "officially" weren't - they had separate residences. But they absolutely were spending the night together. They admitted as much early on. Remember when they went and stayed in a hotel room together the weekend after the abduction?! They were sleeping when the police busted in.

Could just as easily have been a one-off, old habits die hard sort of situation. Their daughter was missing, they were feeling pressured by LE, neither of them has a history of good coping skills and with Lyric missing, it probably brought back memories of better times in their relationship. They were in the process of discovering they've joined a club that no one wants to be in: parents who have lost a minor child to crime.

Makes total sense to me that they'd find what comfort they could in being together. Doesn't mean they wanted to stay together or that they were secretly living together.

If spending the night together brought them some comfort, then I say more power to them. They were caught in a horrible situation and needed every tiny bit of support they could find.

 

[otto]

Yes we all know Aunty T was a mine of information, some of it was even accurate.

None of this explains why Misty and Dan spent that night together in a motel.

:cow:

We know why Dan and Misty spent the night in the hotel. They were trying to avoid the police and media ... they hadn't slept and needed a break. There's nothing unusual about that. That has nothing to do with the fact that they had been separated for years and were headed for divorce. Since that night, they are still headed of divorce - if it hasn't already happened.

 

[otto]

That opens up a whole new bunch of questions. I have no doubt it's true as it fits with my own personal opinion. :seeya:

Like - what's a girl fresh out of rehab doing associating with a known drug dealer?

Why wasn't someone's probation pulled?

Does the Iowa "justice" system make a practise of completely ignoring its known criminals - Klunder, Cook and Morrissey, all wandering about totally free, committing whatever crimes they feel like?

Are felons and folks on bail ever subject to random drug testing? You'd have to find them first I guess.

Reporting to a Police Station even? Doesn't seem so.

They say it takes a village to raise a child, well these days it also takes the wider community. Iowans are now aware of what's being allowed to happen, are they protesting about it? Picketing for stronger sentencing and more funding to properly supervise known felons?

:dunno:

Dan and Misty were not "hanging out" at the home of one of their mothers. That is not true. The assumption was that they were together when Lyric and her 11 year old cousin went to the park, but that is not true. There is nothing ... not one fact ... to suggest that Dan and Misty were together at any house a week prior to the abduction.

If I'm wrong, please post a link. Otherwise, the links I've posted demonstrate that Dan and Misty were not together in the week prior to the abduction.

 

[otto]

Dan Morrissey, the non-custodial father of Lyric, is not a suspect according to the police. Why is that difficult to accept?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Dan and Misty were not "hanging out" at the home of one of their mothers. That is not true. The assumption was that they were together when Lyric and her 11 year old cousin went to the park, but that is not true. There is nothing ... not one fact ... to suggest that Dan and Misty were together at any house a week prior to the abduction.

If I'm wrong, please post a link. Otherwise, the links I've posted demonstrate that Dan and Misty were not together in the week prior to the abduction.

You can't use "quote" marks unless you're actually quoting me...:waitasec:

 

[Cherry]

how did this thread get back to this same old tired topic again? It's copy n paste, I remember this discussion; and it sure didn't take place today. On this board too! I think the perp is in prison for life now anyway. Maybe that's why the family; has stopped asking for help finding their killer.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Dan Morrissey, the non-custodial father of Lyric, is not a suspect according to the police. Why is that difficult to accept?

For the same reasons folks still think Casey Anthony got away with murder.

Where there's smoke there's fire, etc.

Statistically, that's where the perps are. In the home. The "loved" ones.

As no one has been arrested or charged in this case at least, minds remain open.

:cow:

 

[palaminodee]

For the same reasons folks still think Casey Anthony got away with murder.

Where there's smoke there's fire, etc.

Statistically, that's where the perps are. In the home. The "loved" ones.

As no one has been arrested or charged in this case at least, minds remain open.

:cow:

BBM
And the one fact I do know about this case is we hardly know any facts at all.
LE has let the public know next to nothing.
The reports in the media may be true or may not be true.
They are not gospel; some are interpretations of what they heard and some are quotes regarding who said what in various interviews.
But you know what? People lie. That is a fact too.
(Not saying the family is lying)
Until LE releases facts in writing, I take it all with a grain of salt and consider all options as possibilities at this point in time.
Wish we knew more facts to narrow this down.
I am frustrated too; I feel terrible there is no one for sure in jail/prison for this horrid crime.
I also wish we got the info back on Klunder; can't believe that cannot be ruled out or in by now!
JMO!

 

[Foxfire]

I think these facts are pretty telling that (in complete contrast to common assumptions) while 65% if NON-familial abductions are girls...LESS THAN HALF are sexually abused.
Statistically speaking that leaves OVER half that are abducted and killed for reasons OTHER than sexual gratification.

Good catch, Otto!

Ideal would be that some of the perp's DNA was on the zip ties but considering the slick plastic surface and the amount of time in the elements, ideal may be far from describing the condition of those zip ties.

And, unfortunately, Klunder is far from being the first perp to use zip ties during a crime.

Argh, every time I read of something that might implicate Klunder, there is something else that un-implicates him. He's like one of those bottom weighted toys that always pops up again when tipped one way or the other.

MJK, was very violent, but was never convicted for sexual assault/penetration. His attacks seemed to be due to the result of a violent rage, imo.

Imo, this was a significant factor in his recidivism after being released from prison in 2011;

<sniped BM>
In the documents obtained Friday, Klunder admitted he was addicted to cocaine and had a violent temper when they lived together,

Another record obtained Friday shows the woman and her son changed their last names in 2010. A judge initially said the son needed permission from his biological father, but granted the request after the woman said Klunder was incarcerated and, "It would increase the risk of our safety to establish contact with him."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/2...eared-his-prison-release-cites/#ixzz2ffYLGX8J

 

[otto]

For the same reasons folks still think Casey Anthony got away with murder.

Where there's smoke there's fire, etc.

Statistically, that's where the perps are. In the home. The "loved" ones.

As no one has been arrested or charged in this case at least, minds remain open.

:cow:

There is a big difference between the two cases:

Police have never said that Casey Anthony was not a suspect in the murder of her daughter.

Police have said that Dan is not a suspect in the murder of his daughter.

 

[SapphireSteel]

There is a big difference between the two cases:

Police have never said that Casey Anthony was not a suspect in the murder of her daughter.

Police have said that Dan is not a suspect in the murder of his daughter.

See, in this case, there's what LE say, vs what they do.

The family have spoken out quite clearly about how Dan felt as though he was treated like a suspect...indeed some of the things LE did to the "innocent father" were despicable.

Like storming into his motel in the middle of the night...:dunno:

:cow:

 

[otto]

See, in this case, there's what LE say, vs what they do.

The family have spoken out quite clearly about how Dan felt as though he was treated like a suspect...indeed some of the things LE did to the "innocent father" were despicable.

Like storming into his motel in the middle of the night...:dunno:

:cow:

Dan was treated like a suspect until police stated that he is not a suspect. His status changed as the investigation progressed.

That is what one would expect in an ongoing investigation. What was true on July 13 (eg: Dan treated like a suspect) is no longer true today (eg: Police have stated that Dan is not considered a suspect). That does not mean that the police are fickle, or that they say one thing and do another, it means that a murder investigation is fluid.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

MJK, was very violent, but was never convicted for sexual assault/penetration. His attacks seemed to be due to the result of a violent rage, imo.

Imo, this was a significant factor in his recidivism after being released from prison in 2011;

<sniped BM>
In the documents obtained Friday, Klunder admitted he was addicted to cocaine and had a violent temper when they lived together,

Another record obtained Friday shows the woman and her son changed their last names in 2010. A judge initially said the son needed permission from his biological father, but granted the request after the woman said Klunder was incarcerated and, "It would increase the risk of our safety to establish contact with him."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/2...eared-his-prison-release-cites/#ixzz2ffYLGX8J

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to convey that Klunder had been convicted of sexually assaulting anyone. Just that if hypothetical zip ties had carried his touch DNA on them, zip ties are a difficult surface for keeping touch DNA since they are slick and impermeable. Five months in the elements would probably wash off or degrade any touch DNA past the point of being useful.

If Klunder had been bleeding from a struggle with one of the girls, a dried blood droplet would be more likely to survive on a zip tie but I doubt that happened. Sadly, I think that each cousin was too afraid for her cousin to put up a fight.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Dan was treated like a suspect until police stated that he is not a suspect. His status changed as the investigation progressed.

That is what one would expect in an ongoing investigation. What was true on July 13 (eg: Dan treated like a suspect) is no longer true today (eg: Police have stated that Dan is not considered a suspect). That does not mean that the police are fickle, or that they say one thing and do another, it means that a murder investigation is fluid.

The thing that convinces me that DM did not do it is that during the relevant time period, he was with his 16 year old son, according to his mother. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the FBI would not interview his son and that his son would be able to conceal a major lie from an FBI interviewer.

Likewise, I don't believe that Lyric being late on a previous occasion was connected to the abduction because she was with her cousin (Aunt TB's daughter). I am certain the FBI interviewed her and I find it nearly impossible to believe a young girl could successfully deceive them.

Or rather, the only connection I can see is that Lyric was growing up and perhaps wanting to stretch her wings a bit. Which is completely normal and not in the least suspicious.

 

[Foxfire]

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to convey that Klunder had been convicted of sexually assaulting anyone. Just that if hypothetical zip ties had carried his touch DNA on them, zip ties are a difficult surface for keeping touch DNA since they are slick and impermeable. Five months in the elements would probably wash off or degrade any touch DNA past the point of being useful.

If Klunder had been bleeding from a struggle with one of the girls, a dried blood droplet would be more likely to survive on a zip tie but I doubt that happened. Sadly, I think that each cousin was too afraid for her cousin to put up a fight.

Grainne Dhu, sorry but I didn't get to complete my original reply to your comment. It is possible that, if zip ties were used in E & L's abduction. They can be traced back to the same supplier or manufacturer. MJK, would have likely purchased industrial zip ties in bulk due to his occupation, imo.

Imo, the zip ties were only used by the investigator as an example. The COD & any other similarities would have also been very important, imo.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/forensic-cases-murder-leanne-tiernan.html

<sniped-read more>
Forensic Cases: The Murder of Leanne Tiernan
Author: Suzanne Elvidge BSc (hons), MSc - Updated: 17 September 2013

In August 2001, a man walking his dog in Lindley Woods, near Otley, in West Yorkshire, found the body of 16-year old Leanne Tiernan, buried in a shallow grave. This was about ten miles from her home in Landseer Mount, Bramley, Leeds. She had been walking home from a Christmas shopping trip with her best friend in November 2000 when she disappeared.

In the largest search in West Yorkshire, the police searched around 800 houses and 1500 gardens, outbuildings and sheds on her route from the bus stop to her house, as well as searches of a three-mile stretch of canal, drain shafts and moor land.

Length of time since her death
The pathologist examining her body said that it had not been there since November. She had been strangled and her body stored at low temperatures in the intervening time.

Some of the cable ties used on Leanne Tiernan were of a type used almost exclusively by the Royal Mail, the patent company of John Taylor&#8217;s employer, Parcel Force.

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting info on MJK thread:

IA IA - Michael J Klunder: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[otto]

The thing that convinces me that DM did not do it is that during the relevant time period, he was with his 16 year old son, according to his mother. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the FBI would not interview his son and that his son would be able to conceal a major lie from an FBI interviewer.

Likewise, I don't believe that Lyric being late on a previous occasion was connected to the abduction because she was with her cousin (Aunt TB's daughter). I am certain the FBI interviewed her and I find it nearly impossible to believe a young girl could successfully deceive them.

Or rather, the only connection I can see is that Lyric was growing up and perhaps wanting to stretch her wings a bit. Which is completely normal and not in the least suspicious.

That abduction of these two children, without a trace, is very difficult for people to understand. Of the two children, in terms of trying to understand what happened, it is much easier to look at Lyric and focus on the fact that her parents are drug addicts. From there, it doesn't require any logic to leap to a false conclusion that the drug addiction caused the abduction. In fact, if one didn't know better, in viewing the last several pages of this thread, one would almost believe that only one child was abducted ... the child of drug addicts.

Another point is that although both parents are drug addicts and the mother has been in prison for drug related criminal activities, the focus is on the father and his drug related criminal activities. It strikes me as odd and illogical that the focus is only on the father's drug issues. Regardless, the focus has been on the father's drug problems ... case solved by omitting evidence (familial alibis) and half of the victims.

Elizabeth was abducted near her home on a route that she was known to take while visiting friends. Elizabeth's mother said that she often cycled in the evenings before returning home to share ice cream with her mom. Elizabeth was the child that would have been observed cycling unattended on a regular basis in the area of Meyers Lake. At the time that Elizabeth was abducted, her cousin was visiting ... perhaps making it easier for a perp to make contact with the children.

It's easy to focus on Lyric because it's easy for people to look at the drug addiction and believe that they've solved the case. Since this happened in Elizabeth's neighborhood where Elizabeth habitually cycled, I think there has to be a connection to Elizabeth ... and with the "drug theory", there is no connection.

We know this wasn't a familial abduction because police have said as much, and because we (and police) know where the parents were when the children were abducted. On that basis (alibis), police have been able to state that the drug addicted father of one of the victims is not a suspect in the abduction/murder.