IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

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I don't disagree with your basic point, but thought I'd mention that people have different levels of geographic memory. I can remember how to get to some places I visited 40 years or more ago. Not everything, but quite a few. I'm also pretty good at figuring out how to get to someplace I've never been from knowing some roads and the lay of the land. So if I knew 7 Bridges was on the river north and west of town, and that the roads make big rectangles, I could probably find it without too much trouble. I'm not saying Klunder has good geographic memory, but whoever killed the girls probably did.

Also, serial predators tend to keep an eye open for likely places to commit their crimes, including disposal sites if they're that kind of killer. They just don't think the same way we do. He might have a mental list of places he's been to that fit his requirements, maybe not even thought out. He might have gone to one of those farms, noticed the park, and filed it away for future use. Maybe even went back another time to scout it out.

I'm not saying it happened this way and all things considered you're probably right. But it's a honking huge coincidence that there would be two people with a penchant for abducting girls in pairs wandering around central Iowa at the same time. It could be just a coincidence. Stranger things have happened. But geez.

Yep, carbuff, too many parallels and quinky dinks, to disregard... Imo, it has been established that MJK would have been familiar with the geographical areas of all of the critical locations involved in the EC & LC abduction/murders.

It also concerns me that many folks may be underestimating MJK's intelligence and determination to carry out his evil compulsions while hiding behind his mask of normalcy...
 
Yep, carbuff, too many parallels and quinky dinks, to disregard... Imo, it has been established that MJK would have been familiar with the geographical areas of all of the critical locations involved in the EC & LC abduction/murders.

It also concerns me that many folks may be underestimating MJK's intelligence and determination to carry out his evil compulsions while hiding behind his mask of normalcy...

Foxfire - can you help me out here? Do you have any links that establish ANY connection of MJK to Evansdale or Readlyn (where Seven Bridges is)?

I simply can't justify anything as a real CONNECTION based on him being in a home when he was 15 in the same COUNTY as the park the girls were found in.

I pass and drive through several counties on a weekly basis, but that doesn't make me an expert on ANY of the backroads, etc. of that county. I also think that just because he worked on a farm doesn't make him necessarily familiar with all of the areas of Iowa...I mean come on, we're 90% farmland. :floorlaugh: Just teasin' ya. :)

Seriously though...can you send me your links you have of established connections? I can't find anything with a remote connection to Evansdale OR Readlyn's close towns. :(
 
Thank you - and you're likely very right on Klunder's thought process and even the geographical memory. I guess I really shouldn't try to "understand" the thinking process of a serial killer...and the day I actually DO understand? :eek: I'm trying to make some sort of logical connection and I need to accept it probably isn't ever going to be there. But yes, the liklihood of the taking of two is VERY suspicious. Other than that piece of it, I am still struggling with it. And I guess you could add in that he left Kathlynn/DH 's backpack behind...as did L&L - however, that seems to me like a "logical" thing to do to deflect and have people look in the wrong area. I don't think it's uncommon for offenders to try to steer the search in a completely irrelevant location, is it?



Thanks! :seeya: I agree with you. I think the inferences by LE stating they have "nothing to link" Klunder to the murder, but they are keeping it on the table tells me they are just waiting on the DNA to rule him out 100%. :(

I wish he WAS the guy...how great would that be!? I just hope they don't linger for another year on ruling him in or out. :facepalm:

threecrazykids, the inferences by LE; 'nothing to link Klunder', is very telling, imo. LE has much more info/evidence linking MJK to the EC & LC abduction/murders than has been released to the public via ms media, or from the tidbits of info sleuthed here on WS and other forums. The COD, MOD, of EC & LC and other patterns, combined with MOs, signature, etc., of MJKs past abductions and assaults would paint an obvious picture to rule him in or out, imo.
 
I've seen nothing to establish that Klunder was familiar with Seven Bridges or Evansdale. It's been discussed and speculated about, but IMO it has not been "established".
 
Just an opinion, but I think they are stalling by not saying either way if he is ruled in or out. Look at what happened to the statement, "the girls are alive". Let's say they rule him out and someone comes forward later that puts MK in Evansdale the day the girls went missing or something else that would implicate him. If that happened their creditability would be questioned again.

I'm not sure if they can say with 100% assurance that he did it without matching his DNA to the girls bodies, bike, clothing, purse etc., or even the girls DNA to any item of his. We don't even know if they tried to take any DNA of the girls so it could be compared to maybe blood found with any of his belongings.

I think this "stalling" could go on for quite a while, all thought I hope I'm wrong. The reason could be because they don't have enough physical evidence from Myer's Lake or Seven Bridges. I still feel there is another crime scene where the girls were killed.

Look how long they have said, "the family is not suspect at this time", at this time is the key phrase here. That part of the sentence leaves the door open in my opinion. If something should arise to suddenly make them look like a suspect, people can not claim that LE ruled them out. In the meantime, under the umbrella of "at this time" they have the chance to search all drug activity concerning the family and also investigate MK further. This also makes it look like they are active in their investigation.

I still think they should be looking in places that are not so obvious....Oh and threecrazykids, I will also eat my shoes if it's MK. :)
 
Foxfire - can you help me out here? Do you have any links that establish ANY connection of MJK to Evansdale or Readlyn (where Seven Bridges is)?

I simply can't justify anything as a real CONNECTION based on him being in a home when he was 15 in the same COUNTY as the park the girls were found in.

I pass and drive through several counties on a weekly basis, but that doesn't make me an expert on ANY of the backroads, etc. of that county. I also think that just because he worked on a farm doesn't make him necessarily familiar with all of the areas of Iowa...I mean come on, we're 90% farmland. :floorlaugh: Just teasin' ya. :)

Seriously though...can you send me your links you have of established connections? I can't find anything with a remote connection to Evansdale OR Readlyn's close towns. :(

BBM

Klunder worked for Comprehensive Systems Inc in Charles City. They have a center/office in Cedar Falls. Now that may mean nothing, but I don't know what Klunder's actual job was with them. Did he ever drive deliveries, attend training classes, etc in Cedar Falls? Idk.

I just can't rule him out without more info.

One more reason, IMO, that points to this possibly being Klunder is that after his initial crime in 1986, he never went longer than a year from his release dates without another assault. However, his last release date was Dec. 2011. The Dayton crime was May 2013. Lyric and Lizzie's disappearance would fit his pattern.

I also believe Klunder's crimes evolved. He always got caught, but I think he was learning after each incident. After the 1991 incidents (toddlers and driver who escaped) he took off to Houston, TX and his car was found in FL. I don't think we should underestimate his ability to travel.

Btw, I'm not married to the Klunder did it theory. Nothing would surprise me in this case, and we know so very little. However, just statistically speaking, I do think Klunder is an obvious POI.
 
(snipped)
I think the inferrences by LE stating they have "nothing to link" Klunder to the murder, but they are keeping it on the table tells me they are just waiting on the DNA to rule him out 100%. :(

I wish he WAS the guy...how great would that be!? I just hope they don't linger for another year on ruling him in or out. :facepalm:

I think you're probably right about the reason, but I'm afraid it could still be quite a while, as slow as everything else has gone. Sigh. Even worse would be if they couldn't find anything to rule him in or out, and it hung in limbo forever...
 
Just adding to my above post - this park where the girls were found isn't a well known park. When Klunder was in the treatment facility he would have been driven there by the administration of the camp...not drive there himself to remotely remember directions. He wasn't at the treatment facility very long, nor do we know if he EVER went to the "special program" which allowed SOME residents the week at camp. And like I said, from what I read it didn't take place at this camp. Is there a connection of Klunder to Readlyn?

My husband grew up going to Seven Bridges and hadn't been back for close to 15 years and still had to look up directions and we had to turn around more than once trying to find it (when I took the videos).

IMO this person knew 7 bridges like the back of his hand. They also knew Evansdale just as well. Enough so to deflect any detection or capture on CCTV.
I would expect this person to be familiar with either hunting/fishing and or partying at Seven Bridges and had been to the park on multiple occassions - knowing where these girls could be placed with little chance of detection.

I know everyone thinks I'm being stubborn and ignorant...and I will eat my shoes if Klunder ends up being the guy. But I have yet to see ANY evidence that isn't assumed to think that Klunder would know Evansdale, would have any reason to be there, and ALSO knows the terrain of Seven Bridges Park - let alone know how to get there.

:(

Its not Klunder.

This never was random.

We're not wrong 3ck.

Everyone else is. :p
 
Things that implicate Klunder......

He abducted a few kids in Iowa.

That's it.

What's the opposite of Linkage Blindness?

Linkage Mirage?

:dunno:

Ask why LE are happy to mislead.....?

Undercover op?
 
I'm not sure how those of us who don't have an opinion and just want the evidence to be investigated can be considered wrong...
 
I'm not sure how those of us who don't have an opinion and just want the evidence to be investigated can be considered wrong...

It was a joke....

If someone finds out that K owns a paddleboat it would change everything.......

:p

Please share what "evidence" implicates Klunder?
 
It was a joke....

If someone finds out that K owns a paddleboat it would change everything.......

:p

Please share what "evidence" implicates Klunder?

I'm not aware of anything that's been released to the public beyond the enormous coincidence of being a repeat offender with a pattern of abducting pairs of girls, and within the same relatively small geographic area and time frame. But that pattern alone means that they have to eliminate him before they can make a sound case against another person. Otherwise the defense attorney is going to say, "But you didn't look at the obvious suspect!"
 
I would believe this if there was ANY evidence whatsoever that Klunder had ever been in Evansdale. There is no connection whatsoever for Klunder and Evansdale that I've read other than a bunch of assumptions that he COULD have driven through there, COULD have worked at a fair, etc. and the list goes on.

Those are assumptions that you could come up with for ANY person who did this. IMO that is making the suspect fit the crime and not the other way around.

Can someone point me to any sources that would link Klunder to Evansdale? Bremer county itself was the only connection I have found.
He was in a treatment facility in Waverly...which is approx 20 miles away from Seven Bridges which is 35 mins away from Evansdale. Is there any indicator that he'd ever been to 7 Bridges? Or is that just an assumption because he at one time he resided at a juvenile residential treatment facility in the same county? Yes some of the kids are allowed attend summer camp for 1 week a year but I thought I read somewhere that week is held at Cedar Bend county park...? From what I've read, there are locals who had never heard of 7 Bridges so it's not a well known park. :(

IIRC, when he 1st kidnapped KS & the other girl, someone on here discovered that he was FB friends with an RSO in Evansdale & the RSO unfriended him as soon as KS was found or after he committed suicide. Also, his father passed away not to long ago & and an obituary was posted here. MK would have step brothers that live in Waterloo according to the obit.
 
Foxfire - can you help me out here? Do you have any links that establish ANY connection of MJK to Evansdale or Readlyn (where Seven Bridges is)?

I simply can't justify anything as a real CONNECTION based on him being in a home when he was 15 in the same COUNTY as the park the girls were found in.

I pass and drive through several counties on a weekly basis, but that doesn't make me an expert on ANY of the backroads, etc. of that county. I also think that just because he worked on a farm doesn't make him necessarily familiar with all of the areas of Iowa...I mean come on, we're 90% farmland. :floorlaugh: Just teasin' ya. :)

Seriously though...can you send me your links you have of established connections? I can't find anything with a remote connection to Evansdale OR Readlyn's close towns. :(


threecrazykids, if you read the WS MJK thread and also research the Klunders at ancestry.com in the Plainfield, Nashua, Readlyn, Waverly, IA area. You will find many connections to the 7Bridges Park geographical area..

MJK's father's obit;
http://ncigs.org/new/obituaries/masoncity/2013/august/august6.html
 
K would be an obvious poi because of his previous crimes,yet I would be surprised a bit if he took the girls. Sadly K is hardly unique,
whatever social conditions and influences that shaped and led him to do the things he did, are the same ones as others raised with, or near him imo.
Plenty more yet to be ferreted out...
 
http://www.messengernews.net/page/c...-determine-Shepard-s-blood-found-at-site.html

DAYTON - Blood found at a hog confinement facility has been identified at Kathlynn Shepard's

According to Kietzman, the two girls were lured into Michael Klunder's pickup truck with an offer to make money mowing grass. They wanted to contact their parents and Klunder he said he would let them use his cell phone after they viewed the site. Once they arrived at the hog confinement operation, located at 3023 400th St. in rural Pilot Mound, the girls' hands were zip-tied, and he took Kathlynn out of the office where they had been taken.

It was then that the 12-year-old girl was able to escape.
The gun she said she saw in Klunder's possession was a tool used to euthanize animals.
Kietzman said officials are asking farmers to search their own outbuildings because they will know their farms better than authorities. Although there were 140 law enforcement officers and more than 100 volunteers Thursday, it would be impossible for them to search every outbuilding, he said.

Meanwhile, Klunder's wife, identified as Lisa Klunder in a press release from the Iowa Department of Public Safety, has been completely cooperative with law enforcement and is not a suspect.
_____________________________________

http://www.iowapork.org/FileLibrary/States/IA/News/Magazine/March2012Mag.pdf
See Page 27 - 39 hog confinement barns in Central Iowa managed by MJK's inlaws..

In 2004, with the encouragement of Murphy-Brown staff, Steve
and LaVonne leased 20 barns from Murphy-Brown and assumed management of another
24 finishing barns. They have purchased 10 barns and manage the other 29 for a variety
of owners, both local and distant. In 2006, all sites were converted to wean-to-finish.
The Flygstads now operate 39 barns in central Iowa with their daughter, Lisa, and two employees.
 
In 2002, while still in prison, Klunder began a long effort to secure parental rights over a son he had fathered a few months before he was sent to prison. This led to a series of court hearings that included testimony from a psychologist who described Klunder as a “seriously disturbed young man.”

According to an administrative law judge who reviewed the psychologist’s findings in 2002, Klunder was still brooding then about “getting back at the people who he thinks are responsible for the pain in his life.”

Administrative Law Judge Donald Bohlken found that after 10 years of incarceration, “there is absolutely no evidence that Klunder has received meaningful treatment of therapy” for his psychological disorders.

“It is virtually unknown whether he can function in a socially approved manner or whether he will again return to his violent behavior once outside a structured environment,” Bohlken wrote.

In court filings made by Klunder in 2005, he admitted his “history of psychological problems,” which he said had included schizoid and anti-social behaviors, intermittent explosive disorder, an impulse disorder, and a narcissistic personality disorder.

His discharge records from the InnerChange Freedom Initiative — the faith-based program Klunder alluded to in his court filings — indicate Klunder was schooled by IFI in the importance of work, education, support groups and mentoring.

His IFI Bible counselor wrote that Klunder “was very transparent with me about his struggles and received coaching in a timely fashion. … Academically, he was always in the top of the class — 30 men — and he is a very intelligent young man.

Michael is committed to completing his time as the Department of Corrections governs, and he is willing (to) work with IFI after-care when the time becomes appropriate. He is a changed individual with a good prospect of success.”

Klunder had a few discipline reports made against him while in prison but none were for any violent or serious infractions, according to Fred Scaletta, a spokesman for the state corrections department.

_________________________________

Former police chief 'stunned' at news
Paul Scranton was police chief in Charles City in 1991. In an interview with The Des Moines Register on Wednesday, he said he was “stunned” to see Klunder back in the news.

He said he didn’t know Klunder had been released from prison.

“His disregard for human life was stunning in that he threw the kids away like trash,” Scranton said

Scranton — who went on to serve as police chief in Indianola and then Ankeny until his retirement in 2002 — said Klunder is on the list of the worst criminals he ever pursued.

When the two toddlers were pulled from the dumpster, one girl had been choked.

Scranton didn’t know until he saw the news of the Dayton case that Klunder had been released from prison.

Still, Klunder’s name crossed his mind last July when he saw news coverage of the disappearance of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey from Evansdale, Scranton said.

Then, Scranton took solace believing that Klunder was still incarcerated, he said. Collins and Cook-Morrissey were found dead Dec. 5, and investigators in the case are now following up to see if there is any evidence Klunder could have been involved.

From his perspective, Klunder deserved life in prison, Scranton said.

“I’m convinced at the time of his crime in the ’90s, that he thought at least one of the two girls was dead that he threw in the dumpster,” he said. “He had just a total disregard for their safety and welfare.”

http://victimsheartland.forumotion....t-forced-injuries-manner-of-death-is-homicide
 
3ck: were the roads leading from the main highway en-route to 7Bridges Park, paved or gravel?

thanks
 
3ck: were the roads leading from the main highway en-route to 7Bridges Park, paved or gravel?

thanks

The road off the main highway is gravel. You turn off the highway and then go a good mile, then turn right again and go probably a 1/2 mile down another gravel road before you even realize you're coming upon the entrance of the park. Then when you come in...there are several routes you could take to decide which way you want to go within the park.

When I spoke to Cinder we were both discussing how difficult it was to find- I know we passed the turn off, and I believe Cinder may have as well. There was no signage whatsoever that says "Seven Bridges Wildlife Area" or anything of the like that I remember seeing. DH said there used to be a "Public Access" sign along the highway, but at the time we were there, there was no such sign indicating the turn off.

Hope that helps.:seeya:
 
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