IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[Marilynilpa]

I used to feel like there may have been two abductors. I always felt it was very possible that there was just one. The longer this case goes on the more I am leaning toward one individual. As to the BBM, good point, but Aunt Tammy also suggested searching at the lake, somewhere gramma said the girls had been trained not to go and knew was off limits. And strangers, well there are strangers and there are strangers. Is someone a stranger when you have seen them around town or is a stranger someone you have never set eyes on before? Hard to convey stranger danger to kids. That nice older boy that my cousin talks to sometimes or that young man we have seen at the qwik mart, etc. - are they strangers? Are they dangers? As to self defense or evasive actions to take. I wonder if they were given for instances where a friend or relative was already in the clutches of that stranger? Cooperate or I will kill your little friend sort of scenarios. Because IF it was one lone person or two, that would be a very effective way to gain the cooperation of the remaining girl.

I'm catching up so this reply is a little late, but I really liked your post. I have always felt the abductor was someone known to the girls, and who did not trigger the "stranger danger" alarm. JMO. Could be anyone, as your post points out.

 

[Squeeze]

I recently stumbled upon a Google Fusion Table for this case.

Can anyone tell me if the exact GPS co-ordinates have been released for where the girls bikes were found?

The GPS co-ords are listed in this table.

For those of you who are unaware, Google Maps now makes use of a sliding table of images for Google Streetview. In other words, a current image on Google Maps may be for 2015, but, if there were images there in 2008 of the same location, they are still there, in a sliding selector box on the left hand side at Google Streetview. Anyone searching for White SUVs using Google Streetview should use this tool.

Here is the way the GPS co-ords listed at this Google Table, last edited by an unknown user on December 12, 2012, looked.

Can anyone tell me if this is the PRECISE location that the girls bikes were found? 42.460512, -92.286

TIA

View attachment 69008


Link to Google Table - Author Unknown - December 12, 2012

https://www.google.com/fusiontables...CefsuriVN0DTnC27OYMn2RQo4NLShMGbQFM#rows:id=1

Yes, I would say that the red dot on the south east side of the lake is the exact location of where the bikes were found, having ridden in the trail many times.

 

[Squeeze]

I also believe that they stopped at Fareway, and yes there is signage. Next to Fareway on Independence Avenue is/was an ice cream store called Four Queens. The bike trail runs next to it and behind Fareway. It's easy enough to follow all the way to Meyers lake where the bikes were found. I live south of highway 20, and many times, we have hopped on the bike trail, which runs under the highway, then jump onto Arbutus and over to the trail that leads to 4 Queens. From 4 Queens, we'd take the trail south again, and when. It gets to Gilbert (?) the trail curves to the right to the lake but we go left to head back home. We did this the night before the girls disappeared. I think I still have it on my CardioTrainer app. So yes, it would have been very easy for the girls to jump on the trail - just like Cinder did - and go to the lake. Only others on the trail would have seen them, or people who may have been in their back yards. Not much traffic to deal with, except maybe at Central Avenue.

 

[watcher9]

Just thinking out loud today...

On an earlier post, I didn't know the name of the through street that I felt like Elizabeth biked on. Now I believe it was South Evans Road which she would have biked all the way down to the stop sign at Gilbert Avenue and back.

Looking at Fareway (which I spelled incorrectly earlier), I'm wondering what was considered the back of it? Looking at Google Earth, it looks like there is not much room around the backside because of the fence. In fact, it looks like it's all fenced in except for the South Evans Road entrance which looks like it is the side of the store. If the guys (employees) were outside smoking/hanging out, they would be more accessible to the girls on the South Evans Rd side than from the bike trail side. Now, it looks like it would make more sense for the girls to come down South Evans and bike into the parking lot of Fareway if the boys were on that side. So, maybe the girls didn't get on the bike trail until later on on that last trip. See below.

Must have missed it before, but I found that the Carpenters lives about 1.5 miles away in the 1000 block of Lake Avenue in this article.

Looking again at the map, Lake Ave is one block off of South Evans. Again, from the article,
“We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street,” he said.
Did Elizabeth ride all the time with Lyric or did she had another girl she biked around with? I didn't think that Lyric was visiting that much, only when her grandma took her. Anyway, according to this statement, she must have turned around either on Gilbert or on the sidewalk or in the parking lot of the Police/Fire Department building on that corner so I am assuming that the Carpenters lived on the corner of Lake and Gilbert, across from the Police/Fire Department.

Again, from the article,
“I was out watering my yard between 12 and 3:00 and the girls rode their bikes right by our house,” Carpenter said.
Hmm...That was the one day they didn't turn around and they went straight on Gilbert following the bike trail signs to the bike trail lane and rode on it on to Arbutus and then on to the lake. They didn't know or realize that South Evans also went straight on to the lake. They just followed the signs on Gilbert and so did I on google maps.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

 

[threecrazykids]

Just thinking out loud today...

On an earlier post, I didn't know the name of the through street that I felt like Elizabeth biked on. Now I believe it was South Evans Road which she would have biked all the way down to the stop sign at Gilbert Avenue and back.

Looking at Fareway (which I spelled incorrectly earlier), I'm wondering what was considered the back of it? Looking at Google Earth, it looks like there is not much room around the backside because of the fence. In fact, it looks like it's all fenced in except for the South Evans Road entrance which looks like it is the side of the store. If the guys (employees) were outside smoking/hanging out, they would be more accessible to the girls on the South Evans Rd side than from the bike trail side. Now, it looks like it would make more sense for the girls to come down South Evans and bike into the parking lot of Fareway if the boys were on that side. So, maybe the girls didn't get on the bike trail until later on on that last trip. See below.

Must have missed it before, but I found that the Carpenters lives about 1.5 miles away in the 1000 block of Lake Avenue in this article.

Looking again at the map, Lake Ave is one block off of South Evans. Again, from the article,
“We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street,” he said.
Did Elizabeth ride all the time with Lyric or did she had another girl she biked around with? I didn't think that Lyric was visiting that much, only when her grandma took her. Anyway, according to this statement, she must have turned around either on Gilbert or on the sidewalk or in the parking lot of the Police/Fire Department building on that corner so I am assuming that the Carpenters lived on the corner of Lake and Gilbert, across from the Police/Fire Department.

Again, from the article,
“I was out watering my yard between 12 and 3:00 and the girls rode their bikes right by our house,” Carpenter said.
Hmm...That was the one day they didn't turn around and they went straight on Gilbert following the bike trail signs to the bike trail lane and rode on it on to Arbutus and then on to the lake. They didn't know or realize that South Evans also went straight on to the lake. They just followed the signs on Gilbert and so did I on google maps.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

Your post reminded me of a post Ollipop posted way back regarding this same thing - see post #129.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vansdale-13-July-2012-4&p=8166731#post8166731

 

[watcher9]

Your post reminded me of a post Ollipop posted way back regarding this same thing - see post #129.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...vansdale-13-July-2012-4&p=8166731#post8166731

Good memory.
I went back and read that post and saw that yes, we did have the same thought on that area. Almost like coming round circle, I guess. I do feel that with their stopping at Fareway, they were not sure about the location of the lake and how to get there. They may not have been familiar with the streets in that area to take a short cut.

 

[cindersoot]

Why is there any thoughts that the girls stopped at Fareway?

 

[tlcya]

post 217 this thread/page. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ansdale-13-July-2012-25&p=8674335#post8674335

I do not believe that the Fairway rumored stop was ever verified or denied by LE. Hope that helps. If I remember rightly, I read the FB post that originated this. It was from someone alleging to be a questioned employee or the spouse of a questioned employee if I recall. I do not know if the info is accurate. But that is where that speculation comes from.

ETA more previous discussion about the Fareway here at WS: Post 252 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ansdale-13-July-2012-25&p=8674335#post8674335

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Just thinking out loud today...

On an earlier post, I didn't know the name of the through street that I felt like Elizabeth biked on. Now I believe it was South Evans Road which she would have biked all the way down to the stop sign at Gilbert Avenue and back.

Looking at Fareway (which I spelled incorrectly earlier), I'm wondering what was considered the back of it? Looking at Google Earth, it looks like there is not much room around the backside because of the fence. In fact, it looks like it's all fenced in except for the South Evans Road entrance which looks like it is the side of the store. If the guys (employees) were outside smoking/hanging out, they would be more accessible to the girls on the South Evans Rd side than from the bike trail side. Now, it looks like it would make more sense for the girls to come down South Evans and bike into the parking lot of Fareway if the boys were on that side. So, maybe the girls didn't get on the bike trail until later on on that last trip. See below.

Must have missed it before, but I found that the Carpenters lives about 1.5 miles away in the 1000 block of Lake Avenue in this article.

Looking again at the map, Lake Ave is one block off of South Evans. Again, from the article,
“We see them practically all the time ride their bikes right past our house, but they come down and turn around in the street,” he said.
Did Elizabeth ride all the time with Lyric or did she had another girl she biked around with? I didn't think that Lyric was visiting that much, only when her grandma took her. Anyway, according to this statement, she must have turned around either on Gilbert or on the sidewalk or in the parking lot of the Police/Fire Department building on that corner so I am assuming that the Carpenters lived on the corner of Lake and Gilbert, across from the Police/Fire Department.

Again, from the article,
“I was out watering my yard between 12 and 3:00 and the girls rode their bikes right by our house,” Carpenter said.
Hmm...That was the one day they didn't turn around and they went straight on Gilbert following the bike trail signs to the bike trail lane and rode on it on to Arbutus and then on to the lake. They didn't know or realize that South Evans also went straight on to the lake. They just followed the signs on Gilbert and so did I on google maps.

http://archive.desmoinesregister.co...-missing-Iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

Or they never made it to the lake at all.

 

[alliemay]

Didn't the police make the person delete the post? If I remember it right, so it would not harm the investigation I think?

 

[tlcya]

very interesting to return once more to those older threads. I am thinking of going back to number 1 page 1. Something must eventually break for the girls's cases. right?

 

[nikb]

Why is there any thoughts that the girls stopped at Fareway?

I know it's iffy to comment on here, but there have been rumored stories that they stopped at Fareway to ask for directions. I hadn't heard until recent posts that they may have also mentioned a paddleboat ride - I thought they were just asking for directions to the lake trail.

 

[Squeeze]

I believe the Facebook post was from the mother of one of the guys who worked there.

 

[threecrazykids]

I know it's iffy to comment on here, but there have been rumored stories that they stopped at Fareway to ask for directions. I hadn't heard until recent posts that they may have also mentioned a paddleboat ride - I thought they were just asking for directions to the lake trail.

I clearly remember the discussions about them stopping and asking for directions, but I don't remember them mentioning a paddleboat ride. Maybe I just missed that piece, but I can't seem to find that anywhere. Do you remember any details about it?

 

[threecrazykids]

very interesting to return once more to those older threads. I am thinking of going back to number 1 page 1. Something must eventually break for the girls's cases. right?

I started back on thread 1 as well, several days ago...up to thread 5 right now. It's actually pretty interesting to go back to the first thread and see just how it unfolds and picking up tiny pieces here and there.

One thing I will say - there was hardly mention, let alone discussions of a RSO being the focus of the investigation up through where I'm at now (Thread 5).

Obviously discussions are going to change as I go thread by thread, but LE's focus back then was clear - that no one's children appeared to be in danger and the focus was on the family.

 

[alliemay]

I will look also, but not sure if anything can be found on that now since they were asked to remove the facebook comment according to what I have in my notes. I personally did not see the comment myself but I'm pretty sure it was someone local who informed us of the comment. I wonder if one of the mods also asked the poster to remove the comment from WS, since WS feels that is not a reliable source.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...yric-Cook-10-Evansdale-13-July-2012-12/page13

A couple of mentions here but not the one I'm looking for, looking for news articles now.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-26/iowa-missing-cousins/56503354/1

"They've had several people who think someone was (paddle-boating on the lake), but they're still looking for someone who was said to be out there," she said.

I wonder if that person eventually came forward? If that person never came forward to verify they were there, the rumor would make sense to me. Girls offered a ride on the lake, several people seeing this paddle boat, the person not coming forward to clear their name.

 

[Wondergirl]

We spent ALOT of time on the paddleboat in the early days. I looked at advertisements for them for sale before and after the crime.

I do not remember any discussion about Fareway and the girls talking about the paddleboat.

We did wonder at the time of discussion, if the perp had stolen a Meyers Lake residents paddleboat though.

In hindsight, either the paddleboat would have been recovered, or the perp would have taken it with him. Neither seems a likely scenario at this point?

 

[threecrazykids]

I do remember the discussions about the paddle boat because Breault wanted them to come forward. I had just not remembered anything about them asking for directions to the lake because they were getting a ride in a paddleboat.

Oh, I remember the paddle boat discussions alright. Paddle boat, peddle boat.

I haven't gotten to the wild pigs part yet, but I know I'm going to be belly laughing all over again. LOL

 

[alliemay]

We spent ALOT of time on the paddleboat in the early days. I looked at advertisements for them for sale before and after the crime.

I do not remember any discussion about Fareway and the girls talking about the paddleboat.

We did wonder at the time of discussion, if the perp had stolen a Meyers Lake residents paddleboat though.

In hindsight, either the paddleboat would have been recovered, or the perp would have taken it with him. Neither seems a likely scenario at this point?

I was thinking that the perp may not have been in a paddle boat at all, that it was possible just used as a ploy to get the girls to go there.

 

[tlcya]

lions and tigers and feral pigs, oh my :blush: