IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

[Wondergirl]

The videos of where the bodies were found wasn't taken until after LE had cleared the brush and trees, so it doesn't give an accurate picture of what somebody would have seen a week before. But it doesn't take much overgrowth to hide a body after the first couple of weeks.

I agree that it looks like somebody used to the woods wouldn't have much trouble making their way through there, even carrying or dragging a body.

Right, thanks. Not to mention, of course, that if the girls were actually put at that location in the summer, it would have been way thicker.

I just wanted to point out, that from my perspective, as I own many acres of land, some of which are truly dense and impassable, and as one who is quite familiar with offroading and atv use etc., that the recovery location isn't exactly as 'isolated' or 'dense' as I might have expected.

Perhaps we are giving too much credit to the savvy outdoor and woodsy nature of the perp for disposing.

JMO

 

[Squeeze]

Right, thanks. Not to mention, of course, that if the girls were actually put at that location in the summer, it would have been way thicker.

I just wanted to point out, that from my perspective, as I own many acres of land, some of which are truly dense and impassable, and as one who is quite familiar with offroading and atv use etc., that the recovery location isn't exactly as 'isolated' or 'dense' as I might have expected.

Perhaps we are giving too much credit to the savvy outdoor and woodsy nature of the perp for disposing.

JMO

I'm sure you're right. Isolated and dense in Iowa is not the same as Canada. Kind of relative terms!

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[Darcyline]

I think the general consensus from people who have been to the actual spot is that it is worse than it looks. Like, way more overgrown than the pictures we have seen with grass and brambles? at least waist-high on an adult. That it was pretty amazing that they were found at all. Of course, not impossible for a man who is used to that type of stuff, but it does make me rethink certain aspects of the logistics behind using this as a dump site. Like, it isn't a long walk necessarily, but it is a pretty long walk in nasty overgrowth like that when you are either herding two scared little girls or carrying two bodies. There has been a lot of talk of "marching" them to their death, but how would that actually work in these conditions? Also, I wonder if he carried each body separately if that is why they are separated-he got frustrated or just legitimately couldn't find where he put the first girl.
I tend to think it was a dump site and that this guy is very familiar with the area and also very outdoorsy. That isn't exactly a ground-breaking observation of course. It also probably describes at least a few hundred men in the area.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think he cared whether they were close together as long as they were both dumped in a way that he wouldn't be connected to them.

 

[Wondergirl]

With any luck at all, that murdering SOB left his boxy white older SUV in full view of the google street car, be it in a driveway, at the side of house or in front of a barn. The area surrounding the recovery location are images from 2009 which is a good thing in this circumstance near as I can see, unfortunately with the large swath of concession roads and flat fields, not all images are there, as is often the case in the country.

There seems to be a new feature on Google Maps, that you can select which year of the Google Images that you want, if indeed there are more than 1 year for the images. I found this out while searching, and may prove handy.

 

[Squeeze]

With any luck at all, that murdering SOB left his boxy white older SUV in full view of the google street car, be it in a driveway, at the side of house or in front of a barn. The area surrounding the recovery location are images from 2009 which is a good thing in this circumstance near as I can see, unfortunately with the large swath of concession roads and flat fields, not all images are there, as is often the case in the country.

There seems to be a new feature on Google Maps, that you can select which year of the Google Images that you want, if indeed there are more than 1 year for the images. I found this out while searching, and may prove handy.

I didn't know that. Maybe we should search all of readlyn and surrounding areas. Or at least start there.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The fact the girls were found 50ft apart implies to me that they ran in there and were shot then left where they fell.

Heather said Elizabeth was just bones. Most likely they had been there since Day One.

Poor little darlings x

 

[tlcya]

disagree with the first but totally agree with the second point you made SS

 

[SapphireSteel]

At least they didn't suffer long Tlcya - My personal opinion as you would know, is they weren't even raped or molested, just abducted and shot by someone they trusted.

Truth will out.

 

[tlcya]

I know Sapphire Steel. You and I share some ideas on this one and differ on others.

But I appreciate your attention to the girls and their case even as we diverge on some theories and points. I know you want justice for these little ladies just as much as I.

I hope someday we see this one solved

 

[SapphireSteel]

We will tlcya...it will take time and as the perps are already incarcerated, there is no hurry. No BOLO's either, or repeat crimes.

I've got to believe LE have this.

There has to be justice!

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am mindful of the person seen at the Lake that day.

He was never identified publicly was he?

 

[TedMac]

Exellent theory! Great to have a new set of eyes looking at it!

BBM Thank you for the compliment. I have been reading more on this case and was wondering what the best theory is for the actual abduction? Is this lake they were near a public lake or private. Was anyone else around and did the girls go there each day at the same time or did they just happen to ride by there at the wrong time that afternoon?

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM Thank you for the compliment. I have been reading more on this case and was wondering what the best theory is for the actual abduction? Is this lake they were near a public lake or private. Was anyone else around and did the girls go there each day at the same time or did they just happen to ride by there at the wrong time that afternoon?

Public
Yes
No
Apparently

We don't actually know if they even got to the lake, just that their bikes were there.

Possibly staged.

You have some reading to do!

 

[Wondergirl]

The girls being 50 feet apart only appeals to our emotional sense that the girls SHOULD have been together, and how could they possibly be apart, because somehow there was some deep level of small comfort, that they were brutally abducted and murdered together.

I think it's entirely possible that their depth apart means absolutely nothing with respect to the perpetrator of this crime.

JMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

The girls being 50 feet apart only appeals to our emotional sense that the girls SHOULD have been together, and how could they possibly be apart, because somehow there was some deep level of small comfort, that they were brutally abducted and murdered together.

I think it's entirely possible that their depth apart means absolutely nothing with respect to the perpetrator of this crime.

JMO

Ok let's look at it this way.

You have two dead dogs to bury.

Do you dig ONE HOLE or two, 50 ft apart?

 

[tlcya]

Lets say you have to cart two bodies of preteen girls but girls not babies into the wooded unsure footing. Your concern is not whether they are together or apart, it is simply dump and go. What if you are already exerted, tired, and basically lazy and dump the second body not quiet as far in as the first?

Good to feel challenged to rethink this again. I had drawn back, having become frustrated at debating it all endlessly. But am happy to feel engaged in it again. It always sucks to watch a special case discussion go quiet.

 

[tlcya]

actually, we dig two, close to one another. We care.

 

[SapphireSteel]

actually, we dig two, close to one another. We care.

You would either dig one and put them in together, or dig two next to each other.

You would NOT dispose of them 50ft apart.

Why carry one in deep to the woods and not the other? You either need to conceal or you don't.

I think they ran in and got shot like deer. Ugh.

 

[TedMac]

Public
Yes
No
Apparently

We don't actually know if they even got to the lake, just that their bikes were there.

Possibly staged.

You have some reading to do!

BBM Agreed! I've been speed reading thru a lot of it but tend to miss things when I do. I believe I read that one of the girls' parents were a bit on the shady side (drugs, etc). Can't help but wonder if the daughter may have been a victim due to this with the other girl simply killed because they were together. Unlike some, I don't think it was based on revenge for something the parent has done. This kind of thing tends to happen, but it is rare. I know from my criminal justice background that drug dealers/users tend to associate themselves with even shadier characters from time to time and one of them could very well have been a child predator. Just a possibility. Perhaps the girl knew the perp from seeing them at their parents home and could have possibly trusted them or at least not have been afraid of them allowing the perp to get close to them. Again, just a theory and MOO!