IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #36

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That's all very logical, but you're thinking like a sane person :)

The most obvious reason not to carry them in together is that the person wasn't physically strong enough to do it that way. They were both big girls, around 90 lbs. Carrying both of them together would require quite a bit of strength.

This person would have to have the strength of superman to carry them both at the same time. This is another reason I feel it was one perp and not two. If two people did this, then I could see two people carrying them in, walking together, laying them together.

I would turn my thinking around to the possibility that they walked in and were killed there if it were not for a couple of reasons. The first one is the fact that it was referred to as a dumping ground, yes by the media which you can not always trust, but I feel this person may have been close enough to have heard a lot of the initial talk that was going on the day of discovery.

The second reason is the convenience of the whole thing, along with the timing, things were also convenient for this person. Down to the fact that Seven Bridges was only twenty miles away and not used for family picnic's anymore. Yes it was used for hunting but not until the fall. It would not have been convenient for this person to spend the time to dig a hole, in the dark, to bury them. If a hole was dug in the day light, they would be risk of being seen. How close is the next property from where they were found? Someone could have been planting their field. Spend the time to do that for what reason? They were in an area that wouldn't be used much until hunting season anyway.

I wish we knew which child was further in, I would think it would be Elizabeth who was the smaller one of the two and easier to carry.
 
That's all very logical, but you're thinking like a sane person :)

The most obvious reason not to carry them in together is that the person wasn't physically strong enough to do it that way. They were both big girls, around 90 lbs. Carrying both of them together would require quite a bit of strength.
They are significantly different in size. Per the missing poster, Elizabeth weighed 65 pounds and Lyric weighed 145 pounds. And I stand by my earlier statement that he wanted to place them in a relatively remote area, and may have assumed they'd be found at some point, but decomp would have been well underway at that point. My theory is that Elizabeth was further from the road, and Lyric was dumped second, and he simply couldn't carry her as far, and at that point, didn't care. Or maybe simply didn't know exactly where he dumped Elizabeth by then. Unless he purposely wanted to stage them, why would he even care?
 
They are significantly different in size. Per the missing poster, Elizabeth weighed 65 pounds and Lyric weighed 145 pounds. And I stand by my earlier statement that he wanted to place them in a relatively remote area, and may have assumed they'd be found at some point, but decomp would have been well underway at that point. My theory is that Elizabeth was further from the road, and Lyric was dumped second, and he simply couldn't carry her as far, and at that point, didn't care. Or maybe simply didn't know exactly where he dumped Elizabeth by then. Unless he purposely wanted to stage them, why would he even care?

There are two types of killers, organised and disorganised.

The way the girls were taken was Organised.

The way they were left (dumped is so ugly) is NOT organised, unless he let them go and shot them as they ran.

Either he cared if they were found or he didn't.

If he DIDN'T care, he would have just shoved them out and drove away.

If he DID care, he would've hid them properly.

Neither of these scenarios appear to be what happened.

We have a SK down here who's idea of FUN was to let his victims free in the bush so he could shoot them like animals.

This strongly reminds me of his work.
 
This person would have to have the strength of superman to carry them both at the same time. This is another reason I feel it was one perp and not two. If two people did this, then I could see two people carrying them in, walking together, laying them together.

I would turn my thinking around to the possibility that they walked in and were killed there if it were not for a couple of reasons. The first one is the fact that it was referred to as a dumping ground, yes by the media which you can not always trust, but I feel this person may have been close enough to have heard a lot of the initial talk that was going on the day of discovery.

The second reason is the convenience of the whole thing, along with the timing, things were also convenient for this person. Down to the fact that Seven Bridges was only twenty miles away and not used for family picnic's anymore. Yes it was used for hunting but not until the fall. It would not have been convenient for this person to spend the time to dig a hole, in the dark, to bury them. If a hole was dug in the day light, they would be risk of being seen. How close is the next property from where they were found? Someone could have been planting their field. Spend the time to do that for what reason? They were in an area that wouldn't be used much until hunting season anyway.

I wish we knew which child was further in, I would think it would be Elizabeth who was the smaller one of the two and easier to carry.

BBM IMO, it could still be 2 people. Since Lyric was heavier (145# plus dead weight feels even heavier), I think the person carrying her would likely not have carried her as far. Also, if 2 perps, one may be considerably smaller than the other -- maybe even a female and not able to carry as much weight and not for as great a distance.

I think the reason the perp(s) didn't dig a hole to hide the bodies better is that they wanted to conceal the bodies as quickly as possible and for as long as possible -- most important being that they (the perp/s) wouldn't be associated with the crime because they would be far from the scene of the crime by the time of discovery.
 
Yes there were a few abduction attempts with a male/female combo. I don't think they were ever caught, but not sure.
 
Just my opinion, 2 perps, drugs were involved, possibly ecstasy and/or meth; from Waterloo; familiar with 7 Bridges and Meyers Lake because they had no regular job; lots of time to ride the roads; knew of 7-Bridges because of being a previous dump site and went there to sight see; familiar with Lyric and Elizabeth (perps could be the age of Uncle J or younger) because of families being involved in drugs. Killed before being placed at 7 Bridges. Twitter pics right after their bodies discovered showed LE searching roadside and fields close to 7-Bridges. It made me think they were looking for bullet casings. Girls were familiar with perps or at least one girl was. We won't know COD until an arrest is made with a confession. JMO.
 
Any place like this near Evansdale?

http://www.680news.com/2014/07/01/a...s-makeshift-camp-for-convicted-sex-offenders/

Bbm.

"CLANTON, Ala. – Believing it was his calling to reach out to people Jesus called “the least of these,” Pastor Ricky Martin built a little church and opened a camp out back for some of society’s most unwanted people: Sex offenders.

With the help of some former inmates convicted of rape, sodomy, child sexual abuse and other crimes, Martin raised a grey-block chapel in a rural patch of central Alabama in 2010, and parked old campers and recreational vehicles behind it to house the men. More than 50 convicted sex offenders have lived there since."
 
Any place like this near Evansdale?

http://www.680news.com/2014/07/01/a...s-makeshift-camp-for-convicted-sex-offenders/

Bbm.

"CLANTON, Ala. – Believing it was his calling to reach out to people Jesus called “the least of these,” Pastor Ricky Martin built a little church and opened a camp out back for some of society’s most unwanted people: Sex offenders.

With the help of some former inmates convicted of rape, sodomy, child sexual abuse and other crimes, Martin raised a grey-block chapel in a rural patch of central Alabama in 2010, and parked old campers and recreational vehicles behind it to house the men. More than 50 convicted sex offenders have lived there since."

While I'm not opposed to something like this, there aren't any around here that I'm aware of.
 
Any place like this near Evansdale?

http://www.680news.com/2014/07/01/a...s-makeshift-camp-for-convicted-sex-offenders/

Bbm.

"CLANTON, Ala. – Believing it was his calling to reach out to people Jesus called “the least of these,” Pastor Ricky Martin built a little church and opened a camp out back for some of society’s most unwanted people: Sex offenders.

With the help of some former inmates convicted of rape, sodomy, child sexual abuse and other crimes, Martin raised a grey-block chapel in a rural patch of central Alabama in 2010, and parked old campers and recreational vehicles behind it to house the men. More than 50 convicted sex offenders have lived there since."

Good find dotr! I believe in giving people second chances, but not sex offenders - put them on an island alone with no children, survival of the fittest. Can't trust them. And especially the ones who say they have found Jesus. I don't have an ounce of pity for sex offenders and child molesters. I'm disappointed Klunder was ruled out in the girls' deaths. At least we know now. But then again, it's back to NOT KNOWING! :banghead:
 
While I'm not opposed to something like this, there aren't any around here that I'm aware of.

They would certainly be easier to keep track of. . . . I suppose. If they're even registered, but I would not want them in my neighborhood. It's just creepy.
 
OFF TOPIC: My condolences to Iowa. RIP Logan Blake!

Body of Iowa Teen Logan Blake, Swept Into Storm Drain, Is Found

The frantic search for an Iowa teen missing after he was sucked into a storm drain came to a sad end Tuesday when the body of the 17-year-old was found, officials said.

The body of Logan Blake was found at about 4 p.m. Tuesday, in Cedar Lake in about three feet of water and 75 yards from shore, Cedar Rapids Fire Department Chaplain Dr. Jim Coyle told NBC News.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/body-iowa-teen-logan-blake-swept-storm-drain-found-n145911
 
I think it was one person. Nothing says they didn't walk in alive unless the evidence they are holding back could indicate otherwise. Being far apart could simply mean one broke away and ran a distance before caught.

My money is on a familiar person to the girls and not drug related at all. This was sexual, imo.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/national/15offenders.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This article from 2006 talks about how sex offenders live in local hotels.

"For years a layover for budget-conscious motorists and construction crews, the motel has lately become a disquieting symbol of what has gone wrong with Iowa's crackdown on sexual offenders of children. With just 24 rooms, the motel, the Ced-Rel, was home to 26 registered sex offenders by the start of March."
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/national/15offenders.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This article from 2006 talks about how sex offenders live in local hotels.

"For years a layover for budget-conscious motorists and construction crews, the motel has lately become a disquieting symbol of what has gone wrong with Iowa's crackdown on sexual offenders of children. With just 24 rooms, the motel, the Ced-Rel, was home to 26 registered sex offenders by the start of March."

Yep...this was huge news back then. I have zero sympathy for RSO's as well...however :truce: they have to go SOMEWHERE. Making their living arrangements extremely difficult only causes more of them to go off the grid or just have no solid address where they can be regularly monitored. I'd rather let them live wherever, but KNOW where they are then to have them constantly be moving around.

I have zero research or facts to back my opinion up, but I just feel that the more stress and restrictions we put on RSO's the more likely they are to re-offend. They can't find a place to live, they can't get a job, which IMO causes them triggers and possibly re-offend.

I'm not saying we all should invite them over for a drink and play with the kids unattended. I'm saying that we can't complain that they are unaccounted for and are scum because they don't have jobs when we create laws that make it next to impossible to abide to.

Again...I don't have a soft heart for the RSO's of the world - I just want laws that make sense. I don't think that moving a RSO 2000 feet away from a school or daycare etc. is going to prevent a RSO from re-offending...but that's JMO. I'd rather let them live wherever and KNOW where they are then tell them they can't live here, here, here, OR here and then b**** and moan when they disappear.


Sorry...mini soapbox this morning. :seeya:
 
Yep...this was huge news back then. I have zero sympathy for RSO's as well...however :truce: they have to go SOMEWHERE. Making their living arrangements extremely difficult only causes more of them to go off the grid or just have no solid address where they can be regularly monitored. I'd rather let them live wherever, but KNOW where they are then to have them constantly be moving around.

I have zero research or facts to back my opinion up, but I just feel that the more stress and restrictions we put on RSO's the more likely they are to re-offend. They can't find a place to live, they can't get a job, which IMO causes them triggers and possibly re-offend.

I'm not saying we all should invite them over for a drink and play with the kids unattended. I'm saying that we can't complain that they are unaccounted for and are scum because they don't have jobs when we create laws that make it next to impossible to abide to.

Again...I don't have a soft heart for the RSO's of the world - I just want laws that make sense. I don't think that moving a RSO 2000 feet away from a school or daycare etc. is going to prevent a RSO from re-offending...but that's JMO. I'd rather let them live wherever and KNOW where they are then tell them they can't live here, here, here, OR here and then b**** and moan when they disappear.


Sorry...mini soapbox this morning. :seeya:

Very true 3CK! I guess I wish there was some kind of magic fortune telling ball that would tell us who are going to be repeat offenders or scumbags like MJK and that's not gonna happen. If they've done their time they should have the opportunity to prove themselves safe to society, or at least be somewhere they can be monitored and live without being hasseled. I felt for the mother with the 10 y/o daughter who lived next to the church that was taking in RSO's (see dotr's link). Of course, I believe Klunder never earned the right to be released. Confirmed violent repeat offender. Kathlynn Shepard's innocent blood should have never been spilled.

CHILD SAFETY: State Predator Bill ‘A Small Step’

"Governor Branstad signed a bill Thursday designed to keep sexual predators off the streets.

The bill is in response to the abduction and murder of Dayton teenager Kathlynn Shepard last June.

This bill allows for juvenile sex offenders still deemed to be a threat to the community to be held in civil containment units after they turn eighteen instead of automatically being released.

It also gives the Department of Human Services sixty days to plan treatment for a person being released from civil containment."

http://whotv.com/2014/04/04/child-safety-state-predator-bill-a-small-step/

Every little bit helps. . .
 
Near where I live is a motel where several RSOs live. Not TOO near, but I go by it every day. It's far enough away from any schools or daycares that it's a good location. You can look up the list on the RSO website. South Waterloo on Texas street.
 
Near where I live is a motel where several RSOs live. Not TOO near, but I go by it every day. It's far enough away from any schools or daycares that it's a good location. You can look up the list on the RSO website. South Waterloo on Texas street.

Good Gosh Squeeze! Texas Street! How horrible they all live on Texas Street. No, really that's a good thing because you know where it's at and if you say it's not near schools or daycares then it is a good location. I will definitely check it out.

I think I told y'all about the lady who lives in a trailer on our property and she tried to move a sex offender in and my husband put a stop to it. Well, come to find out the sex offender is our neighbor's half-brother. She came over and asked us what happened and my husband just told her "he can't live here." (And she's got two little grandchildren who live beside her with her daughter and son-in-law!! I was shocked!!) She didn't really defend him, but she said that all of his life nothing had ever been his fault - that it always ended up being the other person's fault. . . hmmmmm Sounds like he blamed the little 5 year old girl he molested for ending up as a RSO. Sick! Sick! Sick!
 
Well that RSO search was enlightening. Saw some familiar faces and new scarier ones. CF popped up and 2 women. Didn't see the cousin. Scary, yet why do I feel a little bit sorry for some of them?
 
Well that RSO search was enlightening. Saw some familiar faces and new scarier ones. CF popped up and 2 women. Didn't see the cousin. Scary, yet why do I feel a little bit sorry for some of them?


RSO status should be reserved for the worst offenders.

Some guys have RSO status because they had a 15 year old girlfriend when they were 18.

Others have it because they were caught urinating in a public place.

The definition is way too broad.
 
Well that RSO search was enlightening. Saw some familiar faces and new scarier ones. CF popped up and 2 women. Didn't see the cousin. Scary, yet why do I feel a little bit sorry for some of them?

Some of them I do feel sorry for as well. I have a friend whose son is one who "had a girlfriend who was younger and when her parents found out they were sleeping together slapped charges on him". True story. Has to register for 10 years. That to me is complete bs. I know it's a fine line to walk when their is an age difference and whether or not they can legally be willing participants in sexual activity. But something has to be done to stop these men from being labeled RSO's in cases like that. Those are charges that will follow you a lifetime - let alone the minimum 10 year requirement (if not LIFETIME requirement) to register. Pretty hefty price to pay to society for sleeping with your girlfriend.

Also - years ago, before the laws changed to specify "public urination" there were also men and women being charged as RSO's for peeing in public. Years ago right when the registry came out there WERE cases of people on there for urinating in public. I know there are people out there who say "that's not true - that can't happen". Yes it did - it happened to more than one guy I knew in college. Streaking down "The Hill" at UNI is NOT so funny when it lands you in jail for indecent exposure and RSO requirements for 10 years. Bad judgement? ABSOLUTELY. Threat to molest or sexually abuse someone? Not likely.

Now..the ones who molest, rape or sexually abuse someone? Sure - they deserve the charges and need to register. The rest of these situations? No. They do NOT deserve to have that label. Leave the pedophile label for those who are. THOSE are the ones that we need to watch.

Again - JMO. :seeya:
 
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