Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[Grainne Dhu]

I see a name mentioned that I hadn't heard before. SK.

Also, I don't recall LE releasing any info about the state if decomposition. Did I miss it??

You are correct, LE has never released any information about the state of decomposition. I should have made it more clear that I am doing some guessing about what the evidence actually consists of.

However I can't think of any theory of the crime where the girls were alive for more than a few hours after their abduction. I think they were dead before nightfall 13 July 2012, so their bodies would most likely have been decomposed down to bones by the time they were discovered in December.

 

[cluciano63]

It is shocking to me that we are looking at an unsolved case after three years. I never imagined that this case would be "one of those".

 

[snowhiteo]

I have a theory that maybe it wasn't adults after all, but other kids who killed the girls. Was this an area with a lot of kids who frequently played outdoors? I remember reading about a skate park nearby. I think it is possible one or both of the girls got into an argument with another kid, or maybe they had been arguing with the same kid over a span of time, and that other boy/girl had access to a parents hunting rifle,and murdered the girls and had a friend or family member on hand to help clean up and take the bodies to 7 Bridges?

 

[threecrazykids]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/29537704/...y-of-kidnappingmurder-parents-visit-7-bridges

This video shows Heather and Drew walking to the area that the girls were found - and shows how dense and thick the brush is during this time of year.

It appears that Heather knows the location of both girls bodies as she points out "Elizabeth was found here, and Lyric over there". That must have been info that she wanted to know, or that LE was willing to give, as unless LE shared that info, no one would know which body was placed where.

I also noticed she assumed (rightfully so) the girls were probably scared - "especially Elizabeth". This may follow her assumption that this was connected to Lyric and she possibly knew this person? Why would she assume that Elizabeth would be more scared than Lyric? Maybe she's just making that comment to infer a connection with her daughter...her concern is higher for Elizabeth (understandably)...I just found it an odd comment since they were both little girls, who I am sure were both terrified during their final moments.

Maybe it's easier for Heather to cope with the idea that this was related to drugs - that there was NO sexual motive behind this, and pray that it was over quickly?

I still just feel a huge disconnect when it comes to Heather speaking about her daughters murder. I don't know why, or what it is...I can't put my finger on it, I just don't "feel it" from her. IMO she is just going through the motions, saying what should be said, but with almost a 3rd person feel to it...like she herself isn't living it, but speaking the words about it.

BUT, this is the only case I've really followed, as it's here in Iowa, so I don't have lots of comparisons when it comes to behavior from parents of murdered children. I'm sure it's normal...I just can't imagine (as a mother) being able to hide my emotions as well as she does when speaking about it.

 

[threecrazykids]

Drew and Heather went to Seven Bridges today. There are some interesting comments under a story on the KWWL Facebook page right now. A few things I had never heard mentioned before. I hope this is ok to say or I will delete.

I have been following the comments as well. I find it quite curious that despite the fact that LE has stated more than once that Dan and Misty aren't suspects, it appears to be completely acceptable for people to attack them and flat out accuse them of knowing what happened...but man, you even look sideways at the Collins' family and you are just a horrible, soulless creature with no heart.

Sorry, but until it's CLEARLY stated by LE that they are completely cleared, both sets of parents are on the table, or neither. Just blows my mind that because Dan and Misty chose to be upfront and made their more-than-questionable background known, somehow negates a possibility that Elizabeth could have been the target or that her parents could have unknowingly subjected her to the perp.

It really p***es me off, to be honest.

 

[Squeeze]

You are correct, LE has never released any information about the state of decomposition. I should have made it more clear that I am doing some guessing about what the evidence actually consists of.

However I can't think of any theory of the crime where the girls were alive for more than a few hours after their abduction. I think they were dead before nightfall 13 July 2012, so their bodies would most likely have been decomposed down to bones by the time they were discovered in December.

On Facebook, someone is claiming that the state of decomposition was released. I believe LE has been very careful as to not state that.

I think many assumptions are being made.

 

[Squeeze]

I have a theory that maybe it wasn't adults after all, but other kids who killed the girls. Was this an area with a lot of kids who frequently played outdoors? I remember reading about a skate park nearby. I think it is possible one or both of the girls got into an argument with another kid, or maybe they had been arguing with the same kid over a span of time, and that other boy/girl had access to a parents hunting rifle,and murdered the girls and had a friend or family member on hand to help clean up and take the bodies to 7 Bridges?

I've thought the skate park - and have mentioned that here many times. I think it's a very real possibility that someone hanging out there could be responsible. Such as an 18, 19 year old.

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[song22]

Wow. There's a few sleuthing opportunities from the KWWL facebook page comments. Some people mentioning boyfriends "fishing at Meyers Lake that day" or ex husbands who used to camp at 7 Bridges--they kind of innocently throw these things out there. Some people are asking KWWL to monitor the comments better, but I think it's a great tool for LE and they should put up more posts to get more community members talking. I'm going to write down some names and start sleuthing some new names and connections.

 

[alliemay]

I have been following the comments as well. I find it quite curious that despite the fact that LE has stated more than once that Dan and Misty aren't suspects, it appears to be completely acceptable for people to attack them and flat out accuse them of knowing what happened...but man, you even look sideways at the Collins' family and you are just a horrible, soulless creature with no heart.

Sorry, but until it's CLEARLY stated by LE that they are completely cleared, both sets of parents are on the table, or neither. Just blows my mind that because Dan and Misty chose to be upfront and made their more-than-questionable background known, somehow negates a possibility that Elizabeth could have been the target or that her parents could have unknowingly subjected her to the perp.

It really p***es me off, to be honest.

I totally agree with this. I feel if it had been drug related by now they would have found some sort of a connection. We just don't know so it's really not fair to pick apart only one set of parents. Lyric could have been taken any time prior to her being with Elizabeth, especially the week before when she was at a different park and did not come home right away. Have they even checked out past employees of Drew's business, could be he had to let someone go who held a grudge. Not that I really think that because that's not my theory but it still could be something for the police to look into. I still stand by my theory that is was sexual related, not a kid, because otherwise I think they would have been sloppy and or talked about it and they would have been caught. Still think it was a crime of opportunity someone older, someone who they probably saw around town and maybe even said hello to.

 

[carbuff]

Around the greater Boston area, usually when it's a drug death, there isn't any attempt to hide anything. They leave bodies in burned-out cars or dismembered parts in trash bags left in parking lots.

 

[carbuff]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/29537704/...y-of-kidnappingmurder-parents-visit-7-bridges

This video shows Heather and Drew walking to the area that the girls were found - and shows how dense and thick the brush is during this time of year.

It appears that Heather knows the location of both girls bodies as she points out "Elizabeth was found here, and Lyric over there". That must have been info that she wanted to know, or that LE was willing to give, as unless LE shared that info, no one would know which body was placed where.

I also noticed she assumed (rightfully so) the girls were probably scared - "especially Elizabeth". This may follow her assumption that this was connected to Lyric and she possibly knew this person? Why would she assume that Elizabeth would be more scared than Lyric? Maybe she's just making that comment to infer a connection with her daughter...her concern is higher for Elizabeth (understandably)...I just found it an odd comment since they were both little girls, who I am sure were both terrified during their final moments.

Maybe it's easier for Heather to cope with the idea that this was related to drugs - that there was NO sexual motive behind this, and pray that it was over quickly?

I still just feel a huge disconnect when it comes to Heather speaking about her daughters murder. I don't know why, or what it is...I can't put my finger on it, I just don't "feel it" from her. IMO she is just going through the motions, saying what should be said, but with almost a 3rd person feel to it...like she herself isn't living it, but speaking the words about it.

BUT, this is the only case I've really followed, as it's here in Iowa, so I don't have lots of comparisons when it comes to behavior from parents of murdered children. I'm sure it's normal...I just can't imagine (as a mother) being able to hide my emotions as well as she does when speaking about it.

Yeah, that's the thing I was trying to describe as being completely destroyed inside. She isn't hiding emotions, she seems to be so damaged that there aren't any emotions left.

 

[roseofsharon]

At the time the girls' bodies were found, there was a male reporter on the cancelled JVM show. IIRC, (paraphrasing) he said that he had heard that Seven Bridges was the dumping ground, however, when DC and HC visited the location yesterday, they are both saying that this is the location where the girls were murdered (if I understood them correctly in the video).

The man on the JVM show tried to say something else, but JVM interrupted him and he didn't get to finish. Again, IIRC, there were speculative comments about the girls not being at Seven Bridges the entire five months and that they hadn't been deceased for five months either. I will try to find this clip from the show and post it.

Did I understand the female reporter in the video from yesterday correctly ... that once the murderer parked their vehicle, they walked three football fields to get to the location where L and E were found? If this is true, although it was probably dusk or maybe even dark outside, this was risky, so the perp was quite confident that he/she was in the clear.

IMO

 

[carbuff]

This kind of murderer doesn't seem to see risk quite the same way as normal people do

But I remember that video from early on. I seem to remember dismissing it as sloppy reporting from JVM again, but maybe it wasn't.

 

[roseofsharon]

The reporter's name on the JVM show was John Lieberman. This is the transcript ...

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/06/ijvm.01.html

 

[TedMac]

Around the greater Boston area, usually when it's a drug death, there isn't any attempt to hide anything. They leave bodies in burned-out cars or dismembered parts in trash bags left in parking lots.

I have never believed this had anything to do with the parents drug use or dealing. Prior to my retirement, I worked in the criminal justice field for 37 years and I don't recall a single instance of family members being killed or even threatened by fellow drug dealers. They go after the dealer themselves if they feel cheated or ripped off. That sort of thing happens mostly in the movies and on TV.

Now, perhaps someone who used drugs with the parents or bought from them may have seen the girls and lusted after them. The chances of that are much better. Most drug users/dealers are rapist or pedophiles, they are just that-druggies.

 

[Aymstriss]

In the article on KWWL, I will post the link later, I'm on my phone, Heather is quoted as saying, ' ...and how could someone could actually go through with it and kill them'....that just struck me

 

[Squeeze]

One of my theories, although maybe remote, is that the girls were killed and stashed in a freezer in or near Evansdale, then transported to Seven Bridges later, when the coast was clear. As odd as that may sound, if we think the perp is a hunter, it makes perfect sense. 1. He would have a freezer that large. 2. He would need to dispose of them before hunting season to make way for more deer. 3. He would know of Seven Bridges. 4. He might want them to be found by hunters, and 5. It would explain why LE is tight - lipped about the state of decomposition. Especially if there was little decomposition and the girls were found with their original clothes on.

Although it's a remote possibility, it did happen in Jesup, IA in 2003.

Just my thoughts.

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[roseofsharon]

One of my theories, although maybe remote, is that the girls were killed and stashed in a freezer in or near Evansdale, then transported to Seven Bridges later, when the coast was clear. As odd as that may sound, if we think the perp is a hunter, it makes perfect sense. 1. He would have a freezer that large. 2. He would need to dispose of them before hunting season to make way for more deer. 3. He would know of Seven Bridges. 4. He might want them to be found by hunters, and 5. It would explain why LE is tight - lipped about the state of decomposition. Especially if there was little decomposition and the girls were found with their original clothes on.

Although it's a remote possibility, it did happen in Jesup, IA in 2003.

Just my thoughts.

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Just jumping off your post Squeeze ... and according to police sources, "eyeball identification" was made. This is an excellent theory.

imo

 

[Grainne Dhu]

It is shocking to me that we are looking at an unsolved case after three years. I never imagined that this case would be "one of those".

Since I thought from the beginning that the perp(s) had a sexual motive and had at most a casual acquaintance with either family, I figured it would turn out to be a cold case on around the third or fourth day.

I'm so sad I was accurate.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/29537704/...y-of-kidnappingmurder-parents-visit-7-bridges

This video shows Heather and Drew walking to the area that the girls were found - and shows how dense and thick the brush is during this time of year.

It appears that Heather knows the location of both girls bodies as she points out "Elizabeth was found here, and Lyric over there". That must have been info that she wanted to know, or that LE was willing to give, as unless LE shared that info, no one would know which body was placed where.

I also noticed she assumed (rightfully so) the girls were probably scared - "especially Elizabeth". This may follow her assumption that this was connected to Lyric and she possibly knew this person? Why would she assume that Elizabeth would be more scared than Lyric? Maybe she's just making that comment to infer a connection with her daughter...her concern is higher for Elizabeth (understandably)...I just found it an odd comment since they were both little girls, who I am sure were both terrified during their final moments.

Maybe it's easier for Heather to cope with the idea that this was related to drugs - that there was NO sexual motive behind this, and pray that it was over quickly?

I still just feel a huge disconnect when it comes to Heather speaking about her daughters murder. I don't know why, or what it is...I can't put my finger on it, I just don't "feel it" from her. IMO she is just going through the motions, saying what should be said, but with almost a 3rd person feel to it...like she herself isn't living it, but speaking the words about it.

BUT, this is the only case I've really followed, as it's here in Iowa, so I don't have lots of comparisons when it comes to behavior from parents of murdered children. I'm sure it's normal...I just can't imagine (as a mother) being able to hide my emotions as well as she does when speaking about it.

BBM

I suspect that you're right about why Heather is so convinced it was drug related. The alternative is even more horrifying. Oh! And that's why she doesn't want to know the cause of death. She wants very badly to hear it was a single bullet to the head and it would devastate her further if that were not the case.

I agree with you about Heather but I think her reactions are normal for the person she was before it happened.

My sister is like Heather in some ways. The best way I can put it is that my sister runs on rage (for various well founded reasons). Because she has this enormous rage boiling under her surface, my sister rarely shows any anger or irritation at all; if she lets even a little of it out, she goes incandescent. Her wall is just about perfect by now; I doubt very many people see the rage inside of her.

I'm not saying that Heather runs on rage because I don't know her at all. But I sense the same brittleness my sister has. If Heather ever let go, it would be spectacular and very possibly emotionally destructive for her. So she keeps everything under very tight wraps.

Drew reminds me of my sister's husband, too. My brother-in-law is easy going, flexible, relaxed and is just a warm, inviting person to know. He sees my sister clearly and loves her unconditionally.