Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

[threecrazykids]

ITA! I think the very same thing happened to the four victims in the Washington, DC case. Wint contained them all by fear. All he had to do is grab ONE and threaten to harm them and the others would comply trying to do everything possible to save all of their lives. Imo, Wint used little Philip as a way to control the three adults in the home.

And I think that is what happened in this case. These little girls were close and loved each other and would be protective of one another.

Even when Joseph Duncan entered the Greone home alone he was able to get two large adults and one large teenager to comply to his demands and they allowed him to tie them up. I think he controlled them all by threatening to kill Shasta and Dylan if they didn't do what he said do. It is sad that innocent victims do everything the murderer demands and is still brutally murdered.

I think this predator lured these two naïve girls into getting in their vehicle. One trapped he had full control over them and most likely threatened to murder one of them if the other one did not do exactly as he said. Often at first these type of predators comes across as very friendly and non threatening.

I also agree with Carbuff, this predator didn't even have to have a weapon in order to do this.

IMO

Or - in an even EASIER circumstance - the girls knew this person and went willingly. And when I say "knew" I don't necessarily mean someone in or extremely close to the family. I am saying this person was more than likely not a complete stranger they'd never seen before. Whether it was someone they saw around town somewhat regularly - someone from church, grocery store, family friend of a friend, etc.

I just have this gut feeling that these girls (even with hesitation or feeling something may not be right) got in the vehicle without a fight at all. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not sure on the rules of this so if this is a no-no mods can delete.

Wylma Cook lives literally a block from where this attempted abduction happened.

Which is very consistent when stranger abductions happen. Usually the abduction is not far from where the child victim lived or was at minutes before the abduction.

Remember Sommer Thompson? She was walking down the street in broad daylight and then she got upset with her sister and ran ahead. She couldn't have gotten that far away from her sister yet just like that within a minute or two......she had been kidnapped and no one had seen a thing. And there are so many cases like Sommer's where the child was nabbed close by their home and even abducted from their yard. They are usually kidnapped in areas the victims are very familiar with.

For some reason I have never felt the girls knew their murderer. Strange pedophiles strike when the opportunity is right and that is when they see the victims alone without any adults around them.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Or - in an even EASIER circumstance - the girls knew this person and went willingly. And when I say "knew" I don't necessarily mean someone in or extremely close to the family. I am saying this person was more than likely not a complete stranger they'd never seen before. Whether it was someone they saw around town somewhat regularly - someone from church, grocery store, family friend of a friend, etc.

I just have this gut feeling that these girls (even with hesitation or feeling something may not be right) got in the vehicle without a fight at all. Just my opinion, of course.

That is certainly a possibility but as far as it being easier..... stranger pedophiles find it very easy to kidnap children who are alone too.

 

[carbuff]

I can't remember, would the direction they were riding have taken them to the lake? It's been a long time but it seems to me there would have been some difficulty or obstacle getting from their grandmothers to the lake.

I don't remember an obstacle, exactly, but to get to all the places where they were reported to have possibly been seen, they'd have had to loop around a bit, and there wasn't much time to get from the place where the video was shot to the most likely sighting.

Note that I'm not saying it couldn't have happened at the lake. There are still lots of possibilities.

 

[otto]

You make a compelling argument. I guess it's more likely the bikes and the purse were dumped there to take to take attention away from the real crime scene.

The position of the bikes was never released, so neither route is more likely than the other ... aside from Elizabeth's friend, who lived one block from the lawn watering sighting at 1:15-ish.

This is a map I did analyzing routes and times at the time that the girls were abducted.

 

[otto]

I put this missing poster together long ago too ... murdered three years ago.

 

[otto]

This is the parking lot and shops where Wilma saw Elizabeth and Lyric riding their bikes. They were seen at 12:23PM on the Auction shop video going the other direction, away from the parking lot, and away from Elizabeth's house (where Wilma was babysitting).

Elizabeth's house is behind this shopping mall ... kiddy corner to the back right corner of the strip mall.

 

[otto]

Here is an aerial of the Auction shop with the camera. The red line indicates the direction of the camera. Elizabeth's house is in the lower right corner.

 

[otto]

Seven Bridges County Park, where the bodies were found:

 

[otto]

And now for our commercial break: Happy Canada Day to the Great White North!

... And thanks to everyone for keeping these murdered children in people's thoughts. Hopefully this third anniversary, in two weeks, will trigger someone's memory.
Klunder has been ruled out, so either there is evidence from the crime scene that excludes him, or he had a rock solid alibi that placed him somewhere else on the afternoon of July 13, 2012. I don't recall him having a rock solid alibi ... has that information been released, or was it simply stated that he can be excluded?

If there is no rock solid alibi, then there is evidence at the scene that excludes him, which is good - in a way. That means the murderer is not in the system so he has gotten away with murdering two little girls for three years, and he's probably itching to do it again. He probably lives in the area, and he's probably going to be a bit jumpy this weekend ... I'm guessing.

Was anyone questioned/detained in the recent attempted abduction, or did that turn out to be another hoax?

I still place the age of this man to be between 40 and 50, and living locally (Evansdale). It's also possible that this murderer grew up in Evansdale - camped or hunted at 7 Bridges Park - moved away and was visiting friends, siblings, relatives in Evansdale for the July 4 holiday, and stayed until July 13, 2012? The more I follow these types of murders, the more it seems that 20 miles from home to find the bodies is not that unusual.

I'm just thinking out loud here ... so that could mean that someone in his mid-40s arrived in Evansdale on Tuesday, July 3, and left on Saturday, July 14, 2012. Maybe he grew up in Evansdale, and stayed with a sibling. Maybe this year he arrived on ... (what day was the attempted abduction??).

 

[otto]

Does anyone remember the type of vehicle that was seen on Arubutus, near Maiden Lane (and the drainage ditch)? It was reported long after the murders.

I'm thinking an SUV ??

 

[otto]

This man can be identified. Everyone has to think about who was visiting, and what was going on July 13 2012.
No matter how unlikely, this person has to be reported ... for clearance and exclusion if for no other reason.

In the UK, all people in the area and neighbouring areas were checked for DNA after a rape/murder.
Didn't that also happen in the Evandale area? Rapist/murderer of little girls looked for in Cedar Falls ...


Who slipped the net? Whoever it is will be proud of having gotten away with having two girls to himself

Especially proud on July 13, 2015. It's a Saturday - some children might be vulnerable this July 12 2015.
July 13 2016 and 2017 are a Monday/Tuesday. If the murderer is someone in the area, even seasonally, this seems like the year to re-offend because it's a Saturday anniversary.

People in Cedar Falls and Evansdale should pay attention this year ... if only to make a contribution to the park, eh ... yes, the lake is filled with leeches, but it looks nice.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The position of the bikes was never released, so neither route is more likely than the other ... aside from Elizabeth's friend, who lived one block from the lawn watering sighting at 1:15-ish.

This is a map I did analyzing routes and times at the time that the girls were abducted.

I think we have to take the Carpenter sighting as a valid one with all the corroboration from his wife and his own media interviews. This would put his house on the route as a definite.

Your maps and poster are amazing. Thank you.

 

[threecrazykids]

Does anyone remember the type of vehicle that was seen on Arubutus, near Maiden Lane (and the drainage ditch)? It was reported long after the murders.

I'm thinking an SUV ??

Here is the article I have bookmarked regarding the vehicle in question:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale


SBM:
Authorities on Monday morning said they have three separate witnesses who say they saw a white, older-model, full-size SUV-type vehicle -- similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Bronco -- parked on Arbutus Avenue on July 13.


Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

All of three of these individuals say they saw this SUV between the times of 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13, 2012.


:thinking:
That last bolded sentence was one thing that made my hinky meter go up a bit. If the vehicle was seen there between the two signs (closer to Arbutus), and THEN seen parked close to the woods, does that also lend credibility to the possibility that the girls were meeting this person?
That person was seen there possibly as early as 11:30. The ORIGINAL timeline given by Wylma indicated that the girls left on their bike ride at 11:30 - but last seen (by her) at around 12:15, which matches the auction house video sighting.
Did this person see the girls as they were coming through town, heading to the lake, and tell them to meet at the lake?

Of course, it's totally possible this person was just sitting in wait but the idea that the vehicle was parked on Arbutus, and then MOVED to the woods could mean they waited for the girls to come by, then pulled in closer to the lake.

However...we have LE telling us that the girls were seen NEAR THE PARKING LOT between 12:30 and 1. So, either the girls weren't immediately approached when they entered the park (IF they entered by the bike trail off Arbutus) OR the route they took brought them in the front parking lot - then riding around the lake - landing at the drainage pipe, with the person waiting there.

 

[otto]

Here is the article I have bookmarked regarding the vehicle in question:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale


SBM:
Authorities on Monday morning said they have three separate witnesses who say they saw a white, older-model, full-size SUV-type vehicle -- similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Bronco -- parked on Arbutus Avenue on July 13.


Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

All of three of these individuals say they saw this SUV between the times of 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13, 2012.


:thinking:
That last bolded sentence was one thing that made my hinky meter go up a bit. If the vehicle was seen there between the two signs (closer to Arbutus), and THEN seen parked close to the woods, does that also lend credibility to the possibility that the girls were meeting this person?
That person was seen there possibly as early as 11:30. The ORIGINAL timeline given by Wylma indicated that the girls left on their bike ride at 11:30 - but last seen (by her) at around 12:15, which matches the auction house video sighting.
Did this person see the girls as they were coming through town, heading to the lake, and tell them to meet at the lake?

Of course, it's totally possible this person was just sitting in wait but the idea that the vehicle was parked on Arbutus, and then MOVED to the woods could mean they waited for the girls to come by, then pulled in closer to the lake.

However...we have LE telling us that the girls were seen NEAR THE PARKING LOT between 12:30 and 1. So, either the girls weren't immediately approached when they entered the park (IF they entered by the bike trail off Arbutus) OR the route they took brought them in the front parking lot - then riding around the lake - landing at the drainage pipe, with the person waiting there.

The time is interesting. Maybe someone had contact with the girls in the parking lot near Elizabeth's house close to 11:30. Maybe the vehicle pulled into Maiden Lane at 12:30 and no one noticed.

 

[carbuff]

Here is the article I have bookmarked regarding the vehicle in question:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale


SBM:
Authorities on Monday morning said they have three separate witnesses who say they saw a white, older-model, full-size SUV-type vehicle -- similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Bronco -- parked on Arbutus Avenue on July 13.


Two of the witnesses say they saw the white SUV parked between these two bike trail signs.

The other witness told police they saw the vehicle parked near the woods on the east side of the lake -- only a few hundred feet from where the bikes were found.

All of three of these individuals say they saw this SUV between the times of 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13, 2012.


:thinking:
That last bolded sentence was one thing that made my hinky meter go up a bit. If the vehicle was seen there between the two signs (closer to Arbutus), and THEN seen parked close to the woods, does that also lend credibility to the possibility that the girls were meeting this person?
That person was seen there possibly as early as 11:30. The ORIGINAL timeline given by Wylma indicated that the girls left on their bike ride at 11:30 - but last seen (by her) at around 12:15, which matches the auction house video sighting.
Did this person see the girls as they were coming through town, heading to the lake, and tell them to meet at the lake?

Of course, it's totally possible this person was just sitting in wait but the idea that the vehicle was parked on Arbutus, and then MOVED to the woods could mean they waited for the girls to come by, then pulled in closer to the lake.

However...we have LE telling us that the girls were seen NEAR THE PARKING LOT between 12:30 and 1. So, either the girls weren't immediately approached when they entered the park (IF they entered by the bike trail off Arbutus) OR the route they took brought them in the front parking lot - then riding around the lake - landing at the drainage pipe, with the person waiting there.

Can somebody please refresh my memory about the sighting at the parking lot at the lake? I did not remember any direct testimony placing them at the lake itself, but then at my age, my memory is starting to have more holes than data points.

Thank you, Otto, for reposting all those wonderful maps. You did so much work on this case.

 

[otto]

Can somebody please refresh my memory about the sighting at the parking lot at the lake? I did not remember any direct testimony placing them at the lake itself, but then at my age, my memory is starting to have more holes than data points.

Thank you, Otto, for reposting all those wonderful maps. You did so much work on this case.

"The girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake, a popular fishing and recreation area in the northeastern Iowa city of about 4,700 residents."

https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

The fact that the cyclist was at the parking lot, calling his daughter at 12:28 (after he saw two bikes), rules out that the bikes belonged to the girls. They were seen on their bikes on the other side of the lake between 12:30 and 1PM., and they were between Brovan and Gilbert when the cyclist saw two bikes.

Given that they were seen at Brovan at 12:23, at Gilbert between 12:30 and 1PM, by the lawn watering man on Lake at about 1:15, I think they took the route that Elizabeth normally took to visit her friend (who lived a block away from Lake and near Arbutus). They must have crossed Arbutus - perhaps across the grass, perhaps on the bike trail. They stopped at the drainage gate, very likely went through the gate, and it appears that Elizabeth put her purse down - perhaps fully expecting to pick it up again. I suspect that they met their abductor there - perhaps by plan - and it's possible that they willingly went to his vehicle with him.

 

[carbuff]

"The girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake, a popular fishing and recreation area in the northeastern Iowa city of about 4,700 residents."

https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/

So one of those addresses is the parking lot? The map makes it look like those are streets about a block from the lake. Very close but not directly there.

 

[otto]

So one of those addresses is the parking lot? The map makes it look like those are streets about a block from the lake. Very close but not directly there.

Brovan is the location of the video camera. The girls were at that location at 12:23. They were seen between 12:30 and 1PM at Gilbert and Elmer, near the entrance to the Meyer's Lake parking lot. They were seen at Gilbert and Lake Ave. at about 1:15. Based on times and witnesses, it looks like they cycled from Elizabeth's house to the Meyer's Lake park entrance, continued East on Gilbert toward Lake Ave, then went South towards Arbutus, and then went to the bike path where their bikes were found.

 

[threecrazykids]

Brovan is the location of the video camera. The girls were at that location at 12:23. They were seen between 12:30 and 1PM at Gilbert and Elmer, near the entrance to the Meyer's Lake parking lot. They were seen at Gilbert and Lake Ave. at about 1:15. Based on times and witnesses, it looks like they cycled from Elizabeth's house to the Meyer's Lake park entrance, continued East on Gilbert toward Lake Ave, then went South towards Arbutus, and then went to the bike path where their bikes were found.

Just jumping off your thoughts.

Maybe (IF the rumor about asking for directions to the lake at Fareway is true) the girls came down the Evansdale Nature Trail and turned right at Gilbert...that would send them past Mr. Carpenters house on Lake, and continue to that Gilbert and Elmer intersection sighting (which is extremely close to the parking lot at Meyer's Lake).

IF this person just said "meet me at Meyer's Lake" closer to Lizzy's house, a child wouldn't naturally go to the most secluded spot at that lake. They would assume the person would park in the parking lot like a normal person.

Then...from the parking lot...they again pick up the Evansdale Nature Trail (that theoretically ENDS at the parking lot/Elmer Ave) and continue around the back side of the lake. This would ALSO account for the sighting that Aunt Tammy stated where someone said they saw the girls riding east on the trail. If that person was fishing at the edge of the lake, those girls would have ridden right by them on their way around the back side - headed for the drainage gate.

This ALSO means, the abductor could have potentially been parked on Arbutus in waiting - saw the girls come off the Evansdale Nature Trail (allows for the SUV sighting on Arbutus) - watches as the girls head towards the parking lot from Gilbert...and THEN move the "boxy white suv" down onto Maiden Lane (or that wooded area somewhere). They would already be hidden from the parking lot view from any potential witnesses.

BUT - the girls may see this person out on the drainage pipe area from the parking lot area - and took off around the lake - to the drainage gate. Right into the trap. No one from the parking lot would see a thing.

The girls possibly ride their bikes over to the gate (dropping their bikes right on the path (which could account for Gamerdinger's sighting if the exact timeline is ever validated by LE) or even up against the fence as when LE finds them) walked through the gate to the waters edge, because this person was already out there just messing around by the waters edge. Lizzy sits her purse down while joining in on the fun and then this person is in a perfect position to get them from the waters edge (back through the gate) and into the wooded area where the vehicle is - out of everyone's sight.

Whether the person forced them to the vehicle or not is to be determined, but I think either way, there were no people close enough to hear or see anything.