IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #5

[Ollipop]

I've followed a lot of cases and it's not that unusual, in my humble opinion.

Particularly with children in growth spurts, when they may have more casual clothes on hand: clothes that are almost outgrown but are still being worn and clothes that are larger that have been gotten in order to accommodate growth.

Lyric being the youngest daughter doesn't have a little sister to pass things down to, so it's more likely for her clothes to hang around.

I doubt this is a runaway situation. Neither girl has a history of actually running away although Lyric made a threat at some point recently. Running away is a set of skills and kids typically have to try it many times before they become proficient enough to stay away for a significant period of time.

Yes, Lyric did make a threat to run away but that alone is not outside the normal range of child behaviour. Lots of kids make the threat but either do nothing about it or hide until dinner time.

Also Iowa in the summer is garage sale land. If anyone in the family is a garage sale shopper, the girls may easily have more clothes than anyone could possibly remember.

FYI the missing posters I've seen/shared on FB and have detailed clothing descriptions.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Why is money being collected anyway? Just wondering...why is money always an issue in these cases?

SBM

Because money is always a concern unless the family is wealthy.

There are high costs associated with searches. When my service dog disappeared, the total expenses were over $7000. That included rush printing jobs on flyers and business card handouts, reward, motel room for my husband and I (we lived 60 miles away), air fare and motel for his breeder (who dropped her life to come help search for him), expenses for a professional pet finder (who actually didn't do much to help and definitely was not worth it), meals for everyone involved, gasoline, phone bills (my cell bill alone was over $750), etc.

That was for one service dog who disappeared for ten days.

It doesn't strain my imagination to think that, although missing children get more help from LE, a missing child search costs even more.

For one thing, we didn't do T-shirts. We had no child care expenses for when we were with LE, etc. We had no extra medication costs. There's just a zillion little things that each adds a dollar or two to the expenses every day, none of them that expensive but when they add up, it's a lot of money.

Plus... when something like this, the vultures come out of the woodwork. I experienced that firsthand. We were contacted by a bunch of so-called expert pet finders. We fell for the one who seemed to be most competent, had the best recommendations, etc. And she was next to useless.

She didn't even manage to get us on TV, that was accomplished by volunteers before she came on the scene.

She sure was good at sucking up TV time to promote her business, though. Thankfully, even though she got a bit of time each time we were on TV, the most time and main focus was on my service dog.

Bless those reporters (some of whom are now covering this story).

 

[Ollipop]

Pic 1: Exiting secluded area, missing poster on a tree. Houses in background are on Arbutus, trail begins to open up again,

Pic 2: From just past that missing poster, facing east. Boy is where curve is about to turn north to Arbutus. On the left is the "grassy parking area" and the bizarre garage with no house.

Pic 3: East edge of wooded area, grassy area, Arbutus Ave.

Pic 4: From the trail looking west towards the secluded area.

Pic 5: Structure in the middle of the grassy area.

 

[pearl]

I don't know. I read that it is harder to stop smoking than to stop using herion. I used Chantix 5 years ago but could only afford a 1 month supply. While on it I didn't have a problem but when those pills were gone it was all me. I kept a calendar and put a big red X on each day I did not smoke. It took everything I had to make it through 5 more months but I did it. No struggles in month 6 but month 7 I had visitors from Japan who left cigarettes on my table. I thought 1 won't hurt. Ha Ha. You can guess the rest. I learned the hard way the 1 most definately WILL hurt.

My opinion is that tobacco addiction is like alcohol addiction. Once a smoker always a smoker. Similar to AA meetings when someone stands up and introduces themselves by saying "I'm so-and-so, and I'm an alcoholic." The potential is always there even for people who have stopped smoking for years. I work with a man who stopped smoking years ago and he says it is a daily battle not to light up.

 

[pearl]

I think it's legal for parents to allow a child to live with someone else indefinitely.

That doesn't mean that the parent gives up responsibility for the child. They are still financially responsible and legally responsible (say, the child goes truant or causes property damage or some such thing).

Going to court to get such an arrangement done legally is mostly to protect the custodial parents from having the child whisked away on a whim by the legal parents.

If it's illegal to allow a child to live in someone else's home for an extended period of time without a court's permission, then I know a fair number of guilty people.

When an adult other than the parent enrolls a child in a public school in my state, there has to be a notarized statement from the parent or a court order. Copy of which has to be placed in the child's permanent record.

 

[KeepThemOnTheRadar]

I hate this case. I can't stop crying, I have nothing of use to contribute. This hurts so much. Last summer it was Leiby and Celina, now these two sweet girls the same age as my two daughters. My husband and I have argued constantly over what has happened to the Iowa cousins. I refuse to believe they e been abducted because that means the world is a hateful place that can easily consume my own. Just please, God, please, let them come home alive. Please. Please. We've waited so long for hailey, please give this family their little girls back :'(

 

[Ollipop]

Pic 1: Past the grassy area, looking west.

Pic 2: As the trail turns north to Arbutus, looking west.

Pic 3: From same location as last, looking north. Kids are 3/4 way to Arbutus (and likely out of focus as I'm yelling for them to approach the intersection with caution).

Pic 4: From Arbutus, facing southwest past the houseless garage.

Pic 5: I'm sure its been thoroughly investigated, so I'm not at all suspicious. But I'd sure like to know the story behind this place. Windowless house or houseless garage? I dunno.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I've followed a lot of cases and it's not that unusual, in my humble opinion.

Particularly with children in growth spurts, when they may have more casual clothes on hand: clothes that are almost outgrown but are still being worn and clothes that are larger that have been gotten in order to accommodate growth.

Lyric being the youngest daughter doesn't have a little sister to pass things down to, so it's more likely for her clothes to hang around.

I doubt this is a runaway situation. Neither girl has a history of actually running away although Lyric made a threat at some point recently. Running away is a set of skills and kids typically have to try it many times before they become proficient enough to stay away for a significant period of time.

Yes, Lyric did make a threat to run away but that alone is not outside the normal range of child behaviour. Lots of kids make the threat but either do nothing about it or hide until dinner time.

Also Iowa in the summer is garage sale land. If anyone in the family is a garage sale shopper, the girls may easily have more clothes than anyone could possibly remember.

My 8 year old daughter changes outfits at least 3 times day, and usually many more. There are days where she has had 10 plus outfit changes before 9 am. I'm not talking about trying on outfits either.
I'm not sure that I would know for sure what was missing from her wardrobe. She doesn't exactly organize her room in a way that makes sense to me. Nor does she confine her clothing to her room. She leaves her stuff everywhere including at her girlfriend's. If I didn't see her walk out the door in something it would be very difficult for me to determine what was missing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This just sounds a little contrived to me. I mean, your child is missing and a week later you find a voice mail from her that she left on the day she went missing? Wouldn't you check your phone for all messages in case someone called and left a message about an emergency or something else. I mean a WEEK later... What if she had left a message saying Dad i'm at ____ and I need help....
I just think this was made up by either the FBI, the family themselves or the TV station to keep the story alive. No way do I believe he _just_ found this message.

Perhaps he meant that he had saved it previously, forgotten he'd done so and then discovered it again that day.

I'm not going to accuse him of lying without concrete evidence. The poor guy is doing the best he can do.

 

[GrainneDhu]

thanks
Can you please tell me what BBM stands for? I'm new here and do not know what some of these abbreviations mean.

BBM = Bolded By Me

SBM = Snipped By Me

LE = Law Enforcement

SM = Social Media (of course, to me, reading social media feels like masochism, so it could also mean something else! <snicker>

 

[Ollipop]

Pic 1: Standing near the vans parked on Arbutus, looking south across the grassy area to where the trail heads into the secluded area. The last time I took pics from this location, there was a police car on the trail, other police cars on the grass, and LE standing nearby. Before that, I've never seen a car parked there, and would be alarmed if there were.

Pic 2: A small crowd (seemed like ppl who lived across the street, other curious onlookers) was in front of the pump house, and I've already posted pics, so I went straight over to the tire tracks.

Pic 3: After breaking through the perimeter of the undergrowth, there is a clear path for cars here. Melody Lane, I think it was called on Bing maps? I'd never known this to exist.

Pic 4: The clearing at the end of Melody Lane. Lake visible on the right, trail fence just out of view ahead. A vehicle parked here would be barely visible from the trail, not visible from Arbutus, not visible from the parking area, etc. It's pretty much surrounded on all sides by woods.

Pic 5: View of the jetty from just beyond the edge of the clearing.

 

[Ollipop]

Pic 1: 3 empty cans of energy drink left in that clearing. Seemed odd that A) anyone would need three giant cans of energy drink all in the same spot, B) if this area were scoured, those would be left behind, C) someone would come by later and linger long enough to drink three of these.

Pic 2: From the south edge of the clearing, looking south at the trail.

Pic 3: From fence edge, looking west towards the jetty. You can see that getting to this spot from the jetty would be dicey if the lake were full. Although not deep, it would be difficult to do without getting wet/muddy.

Pic 4: Right up on the fence, facing south-southwest onto the trail.

Pic 5: From the very southeastern corner of the lake's shore, looking across to the parking area/playground.

 

[anyoldtime48]

Pic 1: 3 empty cans of energy drink left in that clearing. Seemed odd that A) anyone would need three giant cans of energy drink all in the same spot, B) if this area were scoured, those would be left behind, C) someone would come by later and linger long enough to drink three of these.

Pic 2: From the south edge of the clearing, looking south at the trail.

Pic 3: From fence edge, looking west towards the jetty. You can see that getting to this spot from the jetty would be dicey if the lake were full. Although not deep, it would be difficult to do without getting wet/muddy.

Pic 4: Right up on the fence, facing south-southwest onto the trail.

Pic 5: From the very southeastern corner of the lake's shore, looking across to the parking area/playground.

Just gets scarier and scarier looking with every set of photos, and easy to see why the parents would immediately think abduction.

Thank you again for taking the time to go out and take these and upload them all for those of us viewing from very distant parts. Ground view really brings it into focus.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I guess it depends on the addict. My ex-husband tried Chantix more than once and still hasn't quit smoking. However, I don't think he loves smoking more than he loves other people.

I really don't know much about addiction (fortunately), but I think I read that saying about addicts loving drugs more than they love other people somewhere.

I also think some drugs are more mind-altering than others. Comparing cigarettes with meth doesn't seem to be an equal comparison in all regards.

I'm sorry Chantix didn't work for your husband. I know my husband also tried Welbutrin many years ago and that one did not work for him, so I think it's a matter of trying the different methods that are out there and hoping to find one that works.

I've read that researchers believe that quitting all addictions is essentially the same. Particularly in that addiction seems to be closely associated with handling stress and learning new methods of stress relief are a vital part to recovery in order to avoid relapse.

I agree that meth seems to have more effects on brain chemistry than tobacco but still, the difficulty in quitting seems to be similar for both tobacco and meth.

I do know that many (maybe most or all) meth addicts stop feeling the high once they are really hooked. They have to take a baseline dose of meth just to feel normal and they have to take even more to feel the high. That's why they call it "chasing the ghost."

I suspect that's why my husband went from a few cigarettes a day to being a chain smoker. He did lose weight initially but then it came back, so he smoked more. And then he had to keep smoking more and more just to keep the cravings away.

I think the big difference between meth and tobacco is the legality and the image society has of them.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Pic 3: After breaking through the perimeter of the undergrowth, there is a clear path for cars here. Melody Lane, I think it was called on Bing maps? I'd never known this to exist.

Pic 4: The clearing at the end of Melody Lane. Lake visible on the right, trail fence just out of view ahead. A vehicle parked here would be barely visible from the trail, not visible from Arbutus, not visible from the parking area, etc. It's pretty much surrounded on all sides by woods.

May be this clearing is for people to load their boats in to the lake by coming this side?

Pic 1: 3 empty cans of energy drink left in that clearing. Seemed odd that A) anyone would need three giant cans of energy drink all in the same spot, B) if this area were scoured, those would be left behind, C) someone would come by later and linger long enough to drink three of these.

Definitely odd. You can tell a lot about these energy drinks. (May be even linked to roadside workers if they come this way and they drink a similar type of drink). Mostly teenagers/young adults use these.
I think there were 3 guys in a group who scrounged the area and left it just before you went in that day or even by investigators?

 

[Ollipop]

Pic 1: There was a glove laying in the clearing, too. Old, worn, but seemed not to have been there long. There was other debris I would associate with ppl using while fishing back here, that was evident had been there a while, gotten half-buried by leaves, rained on, etc. The glove, the energy drinks, and two other beer cans (Busch Light - go NASCAR!!!!) looked to have been left recently. All three could easily have been placed here after the fact, but I called it in to the tipline nonetheless.

Pic 2: We walked back the way we came, out of the woods, back to the trail, thru the "section" again, and this is beyond that, across from the parking area/playground again, heading west. Just demonstrating the open feel of the trail on both ends vs the "tunnel" portion.

The whole trip, from parking area to pump house woods and back, with time to snap photos and look around, took about an hour to walk. Watching my kids ride, letting them race ahead at points, I would believe a young girl could get from parking area to where the bikes were found in around 5 mins by bike if she were racing.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Just gets scarier and scarier looking with every set of photos, and easy to see why the parents would immediately think abduction.

Thank you again for taking the time to go out and take these and upload them all for those of us viewing from very distant parts. Ground view really brings it into focus.

If the girls did get abducted from this area, then it is very easy to conclude that that person knew quite well about this area.

 

[BethInAK]

If it's illegal to allow a child to live in someone else's home for an extended period of time without a court's permission, then I know a fair number of guilty people.

it's absolutely not illegal. This was recommended by the court for my great nephew.

 

[BethInAK]

Monday, Chief Deputy Rick Abben said that LE was confident the girls were not in the lake.

I believe they drained the lake because:

A) if there was even 0.000001% doubt, it was a good thing to get rid of it;

B) it did not take resources away from the rest of the investigation;

C) there was a chance that they might have found some object of evidentiary value in the lake.

I think LE was more than reasonably sure the girls were not drowned but had other reasons to drain the lake. Plus, it kept the media pretty much pinned to the lake which may have been very convenient for the rest of the investigation.

We had a case locally where two brothers disappeared in early winter. They searched a lake area neat the home and determined that thee boys could not be in the lake because the ice was not disturbed enough. Come spring it turns out they were wrong. best to search even if it's unlikely. If there is a chance bestTo search.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Pic 1: There was a glove laying in the clearing, too. Old, worn, but seemed not to have been there long. There was other debris I would associate with ppl using while fishing back here, that was evident had been there a while, gotten half-buried by leaves, rained on, etc. The glove, the energy drinks, and two other beer cans (Busch Light - go NASCAR!!!!) looked to have been left recently. All three could easily have been placed here after the fact, but I called it in to the tipline nonetheless.

Another odd factor. Why would a worn-out gloves be left openly in an area well investigated?
Either they did a sloppy job securing clues to investigation or someone dropped it while working very recently or could have been left today by someone once the police cleared out of the area.

Great Photos, Ollipop. If they opened this area too quickly they have some other good clues.