IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

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I had always told my son what to do if he was ever approached by a stranger, and told him that it didn't matter if they knew his name or not if he didn't know them. One day when he was about 7, he came running home from the park (right across the street), pushed the door shut behind him, and told me that a strange car had pulled up next to the park and called his name. He didn't recognize the car and couldn't see who was in it so he followed my directions. He didn't know that my parents had gotten a new car and they had stopped to say hello. It was funny, but I was very glad to see that he had been listening when I talked to him.
 
Somewhere in the wooded area just beyond the area where the bikes were found. There's a lot of underbrush there, so it would tend to hide people fairly quickly.

SBM


I am haunted by the thought that the girls may have only been 50 or 60 feet from TG when he bicycled past
.

IF he got his times right, he probably did.

In fact, I'm surprised he didn't notice the wheels still spinning.

:maddening:
 
They would be far, far more likely to do HIM harm than two little girls.

Drug dealers love their children too.

IMO.

Catching up this morning. While I'm sure some do, remember we are dealing with meth addicts. The affects of that drug are horrific and expand with use....to the point of biologically changing the brain. Who is to say that a meth addict doesn't/didn't have other mental issues.....like psychopathy or a serious disorder in the first place? Chances are small (4% with psychopathy only), but just sayin' -----think about them together. imo
 
Aye me again,second post lol.
Again i apologise if this has been mentioned before but it seems that when i go to bed you all start posting! and im having to skip a page or 2 to catch up,im also terrible at retaining information when i need..

Anyhoo,i dont think using a puppy would be too difficult,all it needs is for the person to see the girls at somepoint,get ahead of them,tie puppy to fence etc and sit in the bushes.
I have twin 7yr old nieces and they know the dangers(my sister was a special needs teachery type person lol) but i could nearly guarantee if they were out on there bikes and saw a puppy tied to a fence on its own they would stop to talk to it,more so if puppy was crying or looking eager for play..
Theyre young kids that are easily distracted....

Im also leaning towards the bikes not being planted where found.seems a lot of hassle with high risk with a short space of time to do that.I mean whether it be someone they(the girls) know or a predator,that person knows theyre in the wrong so id presume theyd be running high on adrenalin and wanting to get the hell out of there(unless it was a pre-arranged abduction with someone known)...
That is of course if they were abducted from the lake...
 
:panic:

Please Help...:please:

OK, this has been driving me crazy…

FBI said the evidence they found on Friday lead them to believe the girls were alive.

Now, at first I fought, they were saying because they were not in the lake that they thought they were alive,

HOWEVER, when a reporter asked what that evidence was he said we could not comment on that,

BUT IT had been sent to the crime lab.

NOW, what in the H*ll could that Evidence have been that would make them think they are alive…

ETA: They also were Handing out flyers and stopping cars on friday along with scanning the lake...

What could it be!!!!?????
 
I've followed so many cases on this site but it took this case from my home state to get me to finally post...

I just can't see anyone deeply involved with Meth having the mental or physical capacity to abduct two children without a trace. I don't think anyone on Meth would be able to organize holding them captive for any length of time, either. IMO

Sadly, I think this was a crime of opportunity. The perp saw two unsupervised girls and made the grab. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMO

I hope I am wrong.

I have a lot more to say, but I'll pace myself.
 
:panic:

Please Help...:please:

OK, this has been driving me crazy…

FBI said the evidence they found on Friday lead them to believe the girls were alive.

Now, at first I fought, they were saying because they were not in the lake that they thought they were alive,

HOWEVER, when a reporter asked what that evidence was he said we could not comment on that,

BUT IT had been sent to the crime lab.

NOW, what in the H*ll could that Evidence have been that would make them think they are alive…

ETA: They also were Handing out flyers and stopping cars on friday along with scanning the lake...

What could it be!!!!?????

Could be a voice message on a phone sent for analysis. Could be dna analysis from something left behind at a recent tipped sighting (pop can for example). All just guesses and it could be something different entirely.
 
I tend to agree with you Georgiasmom about a methhead having the mental or physical capacity to abduct two children without a trace,but really all they would need is luck and they could be away.
I know quite a few local junkies who have got away with some pretty crazy things all thanks to pure luck.
 
I've followed so many cases on this site but it took this case from my home state to get me to finally post...

I just can't see anyone deeply involved with Meth having the mental or physical capacity to abduct two children without a trace. I don't think anyone on Meth would be able to organize holding them captive for any length of time, either. IMO

Sadly, I think this was a crime of opportunity. The perp saw two unsupervised girls and made the grab. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMO

I hope I am wrong.

I have a lot more to say, but I'll pace myself.

Welcome to WS Georgiasmom. Yes, it does seem highly unlikely in my opinion that a meth addicted person would be able to organize and carry out this deed from what I have read.
 
Actually,i cant see 2 wee girls going with a methhead quietly,unless somehow subdued i think,both girls would be kicking and screaming,metheads arent exactly the friendliest most welcoming looking of people,even i tend to give the junkies a wide berth around here and i know them lol.
 
Actually,i cant see 2 wee girls going with a methhead quietly,unless somehow subdued i think,both girls would be kicking and screaming,metheads arent exactly the friendliest most welcoming looking of people,even i tend to give the junkies a wide berth around here and i know them lol.

Depends what kind of people they are used to being around...who knows what kind of friends their family has.

I'm so tired of kids just vanishing. Makes me want to install GPS on my spawn!
 
Depends what kind of people they are used to being around...who knows what kind of friends their family has.

I'm so tired of kids just vanishing. Makes me want to install GPS on my spawn!

Yes i agree Pinkie,so i think it would have to be someone they were familiar/comfortable with if it was a methhead as i still dont see a kid going with an unfamiliar methhead?..
Im just really thinking out loud about some of the kids i know locally from junkie parents and how they would react in a similar situation..
 
Here's an idea I've not heard mentioned.

What if a paddle boater lured the girls at the se part of the lake, then the 3 of them paddled to another shore near the perp's car. The perp then suggested he take them back to the se section, and the girls willingly went with him to supposedly get back on their bikes.
 
I agree that it's not the most likely scenario but it would work better than some of the abduction attempts I've been reading about.

As for Aunt TB's "stranger danger" instruction... maybe.

There's plenty of evidence that kids who have received extensive "stranger danger" training are incredibly easy to fool. There's also evidence that many victims (not just children) freeze up and become compliant as soon as they are accosted.

I don't know of any way to predict in advance who will react by taking action and who will freeze up. If there were some way to figure it out, I am absolutely certain the military would love to find out about it. Estimates are that only about 10% of soldiers on the field of battle shoot to kill. The vast majority do not want to kill another human being even though their own lives are in danger.

And that's after a lot more training than Aunt TB could possibly have given the girls.

For a real life example, here's the cctv tape of Carly Brucia, 11 years old, being abducted:

Carlie Brucia Abduction - YouTube

Carly's family was certain that their child knew to fight, knew not to go anywhere with a stranger, etc. But as you can see on the tape, she definitely didn't look happy but she went right along with Joseph P Smith when he grabbed her arm and led her away.

That is by far not the only example I've read of but it's the one with the clearest videotape of the encounter.

IIRC, shortly after Carly's abduction, Oprah did a show wherein she showed a group of parents hidden video of their children being led away from a busy playground by a "stranger".

The "stranger" obviously was part of the experiment, and the parents were all adamant that they had taught their children to NEVER go with strangers.

The looks of absolute horror on the faces of those parents, GOOD parents, as they watch their children fall for the old puppy trick, or cast on the arm, etc., has stuck with me all these years.

I try to never assume my child will do "the right thing" if presented with a potentially dangerous scenario, but I certainly do not fault parents who truly thought that they had thoroughly instilled in their children the "stranger danger" method.

As a side note, I hope that children will also now be taught that it's okay to speak up and tell when the "bad person" is someone they love and trust. Again, it may be less than 100% successful, but as parents we have to at least let our kids know that we will listen to them and NOT blame them and that it doesn't matter if it is a teacher, or a relative, or a friend's parent, etc.

IMHO, the danger of being hurt by someone known to them is greater than "stranger danger", so it certainly is worthy of a family discussion.

Back OnT: I think the girls were taken by someone they knew or who had (rather easily) gained their trust (ie boat ride, sodas). I do not think the family has done anything to the girls. I am BAFFLED by the FBIs seemingly assuring message that they girls are alive. It is not very FBI-ish, IMHO. I hope they are right.

Hold your babies close today, and give them a few extra kisses. :)

Oh, I'm gonna be giggling all day, despite myself, about Gamerpinger, binger, dinger, winger. Lol. Not making fun of the guy, just loling about the name game we have going on here! :D
 
Get a firm grip on the arm of one, prick her neck with an ice pick or box cutter and the other one will most likely fall right into line. Even adults can have problems with the sight of unexpected blood, let alone a child.

If they struggle, let them go and beat feet outta there. Which is exactly what the other attempted abductors this summer did when they failed.

19 terrorists managed to kill almost 3,000 people with boxcutters. Over simplified, sure, but right you are that it doesn't take a highly complex method to subdue an adult on a plane, much less a frightened child in an alley or in the woods. :(

Excellent point as usual.
 
I've followed so many cases on this site but it took this case from my home state to get me to finally post...

I just can't see anyone deeply involved with Meth having the mental or physical capacity to abduct two children without a trace. I don't think anyone on Meth would be able to organize holding them captive for any length of time, either. IMO

Sadly, I think this was a crime of opportunity. The perp saw two unsupervised girls and made the grab. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. IMO

I hope I am wrong.

I have a lot more to say, but I'll pace myself.

Welcome! Looking forward to reading what you have to say.
 
I had always told my son what to do if he was ever approached by a stranger, and told him that it didn't matter if they knew his name or not if he didn't know them. One day when he was about 7, he came running home from the park (right across the street), pushed the door shut behind him, and told me that a strange car had pulled up next to the park and called his name. He didn't recognize the car and couldn't see who was in it so he followed my directions. He didn't know that my parents had gotten a new car and they had stopped to say hello. It was funny, but I was very glad to see that he had been listening when I talked to him.

although some think wearing clothes. backpacks or jewelry with names on it is cool- it is not safe. many times i have seen big name tags on kids backpacks or their name somewhere on a piece of clothing- a stranger danger calls the name out and kids feel they know them.
 
Now I've got an image of some random guy sitting alone in a bird-shaped paddle boat, peddling a mile a minute, but just going around in circles.

I KNOW! Super creepy, right? I keep imagining eerie ice cream truck music too. :(
 
Especially since you are Strawberry Fields! :) (Your name actually led to a nice discussion with my son about Beatles' tunes.)

Sweet! I just saw your post or would have commented on it last night. Thanks.
 
:panic:

Please Help...:please:

OK, this has been driving me crazy…

FBI said the evidence they found on Friday lead them to believe the girls were alive.

Now, at first I fought, they were saying because they were not in the lake that they thought they were alive,

HOWEVER, when a reporter asked what that evidence was he said we could not comment on that,

BUT IT had been sent to the crime lab.

NOW, what in the H*ll could that Evidence have been that would make them think they are alive…

ETA: They also were Handing out flyers and stopping cars on friday along with scanning the lake...

What could it be!!!!?????


Perhaps the evidence was found in the car searches.
 
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