IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

[GrainneDhu]

Please accept my sincerest apologies. I mistook your post.
I truly love humor and really am tired tonight. It's late, so again please accept my apology.
I truly value your opinions and comments about this case.

I went to bed worried because you hadn't replied and I thought you were really offended. Then I woke up and this is the first post I read!

What a lovely way to start out the morning.

I value your contributions which was why I was so distressed to have offended you.

The point I was trying to make (badly) is that the nature of being a kid is sometimes to not do what the parental figure says. Whether it's stealing a few bounces on the bed when mom doesn't appear to be watching (but mine always knew!) or to deny drinking milk straight out of the carton or whatever, it's not just naughtiness, it's developmental.

Of course, it's easier to say that when the child isn't inadvertently working on that last frayed nerve ending!

 

[i0wa]

with the 1211 time frame (if correct)that allows more time to get to the lake

as to why LE said 1215 is unknown, if the same tape, maybe LE determined the time was off 4 minutes?

or are there two tapes?? did the Big and Tall have a camera too or not?

even though the girls were heading West, they could have looped around the block and gone the shorter route to the lake...

Okay. If they looped around the block and took S. Evans Rd and also jogged over to take Lake Ave (so the guy watering his lawn can spot them), we'd be at 1.78 miles. The earliest time to the Lake Meyers jetty would be between 12:20 and 12:22. This is using the surveillance camera clock.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Some how, some way I really feel we are going to find out eventually that this horrible situation is meth related. How big of a coincidence that both parents have served jail time related to the drug and the father is facing the biggest amount of jail time in his life ever and then his daughter goes missing? There are too many perfect storm components at work here for the drug to not be related. I am using the term "drug" to cover people, places, a lot of things if you all know what I mean.

Another thought - I wonder why LE has not shown photos of the girl's bicycles? I fine that odd. Who knows, there could be some distinctive feature about the bicycles that could jog someone's memory of seeing them that day - a basket, a bell, something.

Withholding exact descriptions of the bicycles may make it easier to sort through tips. If the tipster describes features those bikes don't have, then that tip can be categorised as less likely to be relevant.

 

[threecrazykids]

I don't know about anyone else, and I am seriously NOT trying to bash LE...but there have been WAY too many mentions here of "no one came and checked my house...or questioned me at all."

I am not "local"...about 30 mins south of Evansdale, so no...no one came to my house. BUT, I don't understand how every single house in Evansdale hasn't been scoured - TOP TO BOTTOM, sheds, garages, etc.

This is just crazy...Ollipop lives just a block or 2 away, has children in the home and his house hasn't been checked? And did I read that he hasn't even been questioned at his home?

How can I not question the competency of LE? BUT - within the first 24-48 hrs of these girls go missing we have all RSO within a 10 mile radius cleared. If you look at studies, RSO are not anymore likely to re-offend than any person charged with theft, OWI, etc. RSO aren't the ONLY people that should have been "cleared"...I would think every house in Evansdale should have been visited, questioned, and searched.

And sorry - but I don't think the standard warrant requirement applies in cases like this - minutes can mean the difference between life and death.

They shouldn't have to go through all the legal rigamarole of getting warrants for each house. I have faith that 99% of the people in Evansdale would gladly let LE into their home. The 1% that won't? - then get warrants, and FAST.:banghead:

 

[Jax49]

I'm not one to usually bash LE, but why didn't they ask businesses to check for videos of the girls? Or did they and this business owner didn't get the message? It has been almost two weeks.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BROUSSEAU: So now all family members are on board and have cooperated 100 percent.

Why weren't they "on board"?

She sounds like my old boss. Glib.

There were about 2-3 days when DC and MC felt they were being accused by LE, consulted a lawyer and on the advice of that lawyer, said they weren't going to talk to LE or take any more polygraphs.

MC had already started talking to the press again the next day.

DC said on either Saturday or Sunday that he'd been exhausted and let his temper get the best of him but he'd gotten some sleep that helped him clear his mind and would now be cooperating fully again.

Some family pressure may have been brought to bear but the important thing is, both of them are cooperating again.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Snipped for space.

They go to the lake to look for the girls.
A man tells them he saw 2 girls.
They 'stand' there for 20 minutes.
The police immediately find the girls bikes upon their arrival.


So if this is a "small lake" and they are given info that the girls were seen, why don't they immediately rush to the other side of the trail, calling the girls names along the way.

The family should have discovered those bikes before the police arrived.
I have this awful feeling that the bikes were supposed to be found, and by someone other than a family member.

I wasn't there, so I don't know.

I do know that according to Ollipop, a verified local, almost the entire bike trail can be seen from the parking lot. There aren't any ways to ride a bike off the trail in the one place that can't be seen. The lake is 26 acres, so if the lake were a perfect circle the trail would be over 7/10ths of a mile long.

It makes sense to me to hold still and watch to see if the girls pop into sight riding their bikes. And since they knew Heather Collins had gone to the PD to report the girls missing, they probably didn't want to get far from the car so they could go immediately if LE wanted them to go somewhere else.

 

[Marilynilpa]

New video from the auction house next to Lederman’s shows them riding by at 12:11.

I just saw that video. Am I the only one who didn't know the time on the video was 12:11? I have been going on the assumption the time was established as being 12:15.

I have never had such a hard time figuring out a time line on a case:banghead:

 

[MotherOcean]

By the way, Lyric friended him on FB on July 3. And the comments on his FB page suggest the relationship was very, very new. So this fits with "the girls never leave the neighborhood!" But as of July 3, Lyric had a new friend, who we now know lived down by the lake. So she would have started riding outside her boundaries to go visit him (or as some have theorized, even to make a delivery.)

I made the foolish mistake of going to bed at a half-way decent hour last night!! So, I have obviously missed something important here but how do we know he lived down by the lake? Sorry, if this has been answered already. I am backtracking and trying to catch up. Someone who lives on the lake has the same last name? That's all I've found, but how do we know he lives there or near there?

Thanks for any info.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Some questions I have.

Did the cycling guy that spotted the bikes cycle from his home or transport his bike to the park?

How irritated were Grandma and Aunt that the girls were interfering in their afternoon plans?

DM has been said to be napping when he got the call that the girls were missing. What had he been doing before his napping?

Why did they even think to go to Meyers Lake?

Why did they call the LE without searching around the lake area themselves?

Why don't they take the dogs back to where they know the girls were riding behind the store? Wouldn't this solve which route to the lake they took?

When the family was lined up supposedly to rule out their scent with the dogs, could the dogs have been directed to follow one of their scents instead of the kids?

Does the FBI usually line the family up to rule out their scent then let them watch?

 

[Jax49]

I just saw that video. Am I the only one who didn't know the time on the video was 12:11? I have been going on the assumption the time was established as being 12:15.

I have never had such a hard time figuring out a time line on a case:banghead:

If I understand correctly one video time is 12:11 and the other 12:15. Probably just a case of one (or both) of the security systems having the wrong time by a couple of minutes. MOO

 

[MotherOcean]

Catching up too, and a couple if observations. I agree with ollipop about a possible scenario. I think this happened much closer to home, cuz I think it physically impossible for them to go that distance and be abducted all in 5 minutes. I'm a local just outside of evansdale.

For those of you who are thinking in this direction, what do you think about the dogs finding their scent there by the woods?

If TG was wrong about the bikes that he saw, if he didn't see the girls' bikes, then the girls could have made it to the lake and been abducted later that day.

I don't know what to think. We aren't supposed to sleuth family, friends, associates, neighbors, witnesses, so I haven't... until last night. Now I'm troubled and wish I had not. My husband says "curiosity killed the cat" and he is right.

 

[Sunlight]

Perhaps one of the camera's clock is off...which one? Even if you use the one at 12:11, the earliest time (as another poster said) to reach the spot where the bikes were left, is no earlier than 12:20....now that doesn't take into account for time for the kids to be grabbed and gone from the scene altogether (before TG drove thru and swerved around the bikes and saw nor heard anything). LE says no evidence of struggle. So, it just means that the kids are unaccounted for from 12:15 until the present.

 

[tlcya]

I made the foolish mistake of going to bed at a half-way decent hour last night!! So, I have obviously missed something important here but how do we know he lived down by the lake? Sorry, if this has been answered already. I am backtracking and trying to catch up. Someone who lives on the lake has the same last name? That's all I've found, but how do we know he lives there or near there?

Thanks for any info.

I think this discussion was about the man who is MC's boyfriend. And I believe we are treading carefully in these waters if I am reading the mod reminders correctly. HTH

 

[Sunlight]

MotherOcean check Jules71 posts from last night.

 

[packerdog]

I have been reading fast through out the threads and may have missed posts that have the same idea about what happened to the girls as I. I keep going back to what LE has said in regards to the children still being alive. Why would they say that? The only thing that makes sense is that the girls were taken for the purpose of making child *advertiser censored* videos and such. The unsub would keep them alive for that purpose alone. When ever a pedophile is caught it seems they have child *advertiser censored* in their possession. There is so much out there LE can't catch them all. Le has recovered so much of this stuff and they try to find out who the children in these videos are, some they do find and some they don't.

I followed the Van Dam case very closely and David Westerfield had a ton of the stuff. I bet he paid a lot of money for it as well. There seems to be a big market for the horrid stuff and they have to get the children some how to be in these things. It is really sick stuff they have the children doing and the girls missing would be the right age. What happens to the girls when they are no longer of value to them? Are they murdered?

I really think that the girls were taken for that purpose. I hope the FBI is on it and is able to find them. There just is no reason for these young girls to be missing other than something pedophile related.

 

[MotherOcean]

It's pretty clear from what various family members have said that the girls were not allowed to go that far alone.

It's not clear to me because the Carpenters said they have seen them often. They said Elizabeth rides down their street and turns around. They have seen her at "night", not that that necessarily means after dark but they have seen her and they live a mile away from her home! So, either the family is downplaying the fact that Elizabeth is sometimes unsupervised or they just didn't know she was going that far.

 

[SailorMoon]

I can only think of one other case where LE said they knew that an abduction victim was alive, and that was the girl in Ohio who had her brother, mom and mom's friend brutally murdered by the tree guy. Can't think of their names, but what a freak show he was. Now, I never knew how LE was so certain she was alive, but by gosh she was. Anyone ever find out how they knew??? Surely it wasn't because her blood wasn't present.

 

[winterrose]

video, apologies if already posted.

Iowa cousins’ disappearance divides their families

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vi...2b4678b97a0416bce2e72b46-4947614000939053||||

Oh Shelby, just looking at that video with all the traffic, how easy it would have been for someone to spot them and go to where they were. When we were kids riding trails on our bikes, we didn't pay any attention to time or how far we went. There was a place back in the woods all the kids started going, it was over water, plus anyone could have followed us and we wouldn't have paid attention. Parents can say kids would never do this or that, but oh yes they can. Also nowadays kids having public facebook pages makes it easy for anyone befriending them, pretending to be a kid and meeting somewhere. So many possibilities here, it's easy to look at the trouble with Lyric's parents, but I think it's too easy. The girls were far from the house, and anyone had access to them, that's the frightening part.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No matter what has been released in the media it sure seems LE is very satisfied with the timeline they have according to the statements made by LE in the ABC article.

Something just doesnt make sense though. They were going away from Myers Lake at 12:11 pm and they were peddling fast.... so fast Elizabeth was lagging behind. So they would make good time going the other way from the lake in no time.

I am beginning to believe those girls never went to the lake and the bikes were put there by someone else who just threw them down in the bike path. I think if the girls had really been there they would have used their kick stands and wouldnt have left them blocking the path. It seems to me someone threw them out in a hurry and moved on out quickly.

IMO