IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

[Jax49]

What was so strange about that is LE pulled the dogs off and made them come back so did they really feel the scents were correct? If so why pull the dogs back? I dont think they were sure they were getting scents of the girls in the woods.

I dont see this as staged. I think this is just where the perp decided to discard the bikes because it was convenient and a place where bikes would be common to see in the area.

IMO

I remember reading that it was getting dark (flashlights were mentioned) and they returned with the dogs the next day. At least I think I remember that. Getting too old for this...

Everytime I read someone here referring to Lyric and Elizabeth as "our girls" it chokes me up. Because they really do feel like 'our girls'. MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sorry to disagree, but I've seen two videos, with two different time stamps. MOO

What was the time stamp on the other one, Jax?

Thanks

 

[shefner]

I think we have a perp who knew the girls.

 

[shefner]

What was the time stamp on the other one, Jax?

Thanks

12:15 on one the first one....12:11 on this most recent one


ETA: Oops, I'm not Jax....sorry.

 

[Squeeze]

Ok, I'm a little slow here, but I think I get it. Carpenters saw them go by in the afternoon. They live a block over on Lake from Evans Road. Was it said that maybe the girls were going to the house on Evans, and took a wrong turn, turned around and went toward Evans?? I had previously discounted Carpenters sighting, thinking it wasn't a direct route to the lake. I can totally see this scenario. Something happened on Evans, whether it be on the bike path or somewhere closeby.

 

[Shelby2]

The thing is about dogs and scent - if a kidnapper had touched the bikes and moved the bikes and mucked them about - then the freshest scent would be the scent of this perp - and that is the scent the dogs would have picked up on and followed - most likely - even though the bikes belonged to the girls.

What if the dogs were asked specifically to track the girls?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I make decisions to pull my dogs back all the time on a search - scent will blow on wind current and flows out of a person like water flowing from a hose - then it pools and gets stuck around trees etc., and maybe at the time of the search with the dogs they were thinking lake danger not forest danger - just a thought. Usually I pull my dogs off if I know where the trail leads - and I think okay this is right, they went this way, and I have another sighting a block away or a mile away - no sense to keep tracking.

But wouldnt you want to keep tracking them to see where the scent ends especially if its in the woods?

tia

 

[JaimeInLA]

Look at this map again. It would have been SO easy for someone who knows the area to drive into the woods, down Melody trail, and park a pick up truck with 2 bikes in the back. From there, it is just a quick short walk out the other side of the woods to dump the bikes on the trail where they were found.

Finding the bikes on the trail puts focus on the park -- NOT the site of the ACTUAL kidnapping (wherever that may be). Throwing the purse over the fence puts focus on the lake.

Remember -- NOBODY has been verified as having seen the girls at the lake.

Every day that goes by, I am more and more convinced that the kidnapping happened elsewhere. Especially since we now have video of them going AWAY from the lake at 12:11.

 

[katydid23]

There were about 2-3 days when DC and MC felt they were being accused by LE, consulted a lawyer and on the advice of that lawyer, said they weren't going to talk to LE or take any more polygraphs.

MC had already started talking to the press again the next day.

DC said on either Saturday or Sunday that he'd been exhausted and let his temper get the best of him but he'd gotten some sleep that helped him clear his mind and would now be cooperating fully again.

Some family pressure may have been brought to bear but the important thing is, both of them are cooperating again.

But I am feeling a bit hinky about how Misty described her last poly:

TAMMY BROUSSEAU, MISSING GIRLS` AUNT (via telephone): Jane, that`s correct. Misty has given that information that she passed the polygraph test with no problems at all. She was given a UA to make sure there was absolutely nothing in her system. She was not under the influence of anything. And the polygraph test came out showing that she passed entirely. No problems at all.




That does not sound like anything LE would have told her after the test. You passed entirely with no problems at all. Seems weird to me.

 

[hollye]

I updated the map. Sorry, I got busted at work on the computer, so only have phone access now.

If the girls went west on Brovan, south on River Forest, then east on Gilbert and south on Lake, they would have passed watering guy and potentially been seen by JW when cutting across Arbutus and the field by the pump station to access the the trail.

A couple of questions...

Is JWs house the one directly next to the wooded area where the tires tracks were found or is it the next house over?

Also, we're the bikes seen facing east or west on the bike trail?

 

[elepher50]

I think we have a perp who knew the girls.

And the area.

 

[SailorMoon]

Not to bad mouth LE, but there should have been a request immediately for every business to check their video or have LE collect it. Not that this video changes much, but still.

Whoever wanted LE to believe that the girls had drowned -- did a nice job. They even drained the lake. So now what???

Two videos from businesses next door to each other, if I understand correctly, thus the two different time stamps.

Quote:

Authorities in Iowa investigating the disappearance of 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins and her 10-year-old cousin, Lyric Cook, have obtained new video of the missing girls from the day they vanished 12 days ago.

End quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

 

[shefner]

Let's follow the logical path that says the bikes were placed there but the girls were not there:

The girls were picked up and taken somewhere? Held in a vehicle?
Then both bikes were loaded...in a truck? An SUV?
Then both bikes had to be carried to the trail...and the little purse or pack thrown over the fence?
Then the perp drives away...and none of this is witnessed?

I just can't accept all of that because it seems to be illogical, to me, that none of this would be seen. And the perp would need to have assistance. I don't think one person could pull that scenario off.

 

[shefner]

I updated the map. Sorry, I got busted at work on the computer, so only have phone access now.

If the girls went west on Brovan, south on River Forest, then east on Gilbert and south on Lake, they would have passed watering guy and potentially been seen by JW when cutting across Arbutus and the field by the pump station to access the the trail.

A couple of questions...

Is JWs house the one directly next to the wooded area where the tires tracks were found or is it the next house over?

Also, we're the bikes seen facing east or west on the bike trail?

Who are these people at your work, hollye, who don't understand your important role here at WS? We will write them nasty letters! (hehe)

 

[JaimeInLA]

Ok, I'm a little slow here, but I think I get it. Carpenters saw them go by in the afternoon. They live a block over on Lake from Evans Road. Was it said that maybe the girls were going to the house on Evans, and took a wrong turn, turned around and went toward Evans?? I had previously discounted Carpenters sighting, thinking it wasn't a direct route to the lake. I can totally see this scenario. Something happened on Evans, whether it be on the bike path or somewhere closeby.

YES! They also may have gone down Lake on purpose, to avoid being seen. If they had some mystery adult friend they were going to visit on Evans, they probably wouldn't just ride down Evans. Trying to think like sneaky kids do, they would probably ride a block over, and then cut back to their destination -- just in case they got busted. Then they could deny they were going to that destination.

 

[hollye]

Two videos from businesses next door to each other, if I understand correctly, thus the two different time stamps.

Quote:

Authorities in Iowa investigating the disappearance of 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins and her 10-year-old cousin, Lyric Cook, have obtained new video of the missing girls from the day they vanished 12 days ago.

End quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...deo-elizabeth-collins-lyric/story?id=16850676

Looking at this video, I do not believe it to be NEW video, but rather the original video that we saw. However, the original video that we saw was zoomed in to the corner of the frame to show the 2 girls. If you note on my map, the camera is in the same location as I posted it when the original, zoomed in video was released. When that one was released, there was a still photo released at the same time that showed the video camera as being up on the exterior wall next to a short cornered area, as it was also shown in this newscaster's description.

I do not believe This video to be new, just the uncropped version of the original that we saw.

JMOO

 

[sarx]

The thing is about dogs and scent - if a kidnapper had touched the bikes and moved the bikes and mucked them about - then the freshest scent would be the scent of this perp - and that is the scent the dogs would have picked up on and followed - most likely - even though the bikes belonged to the girls.

Yes, but if the dogs did that, then they messed up. These were discriminate scent dogs and should only have been following the scent from the scent article, which was presumably one of the girls.

 

[palaminodee]

I updated the map. Sorry, I got busted at work on the computer, so only have phone access now.

If the girls went west on Brovan, south on River Forest, then east on Gilbert and south on Lake, they would have passed watering guy and potentially been seen by JW when cutting across Arbutus and the field by the pump station to access the the trail.

A couple of questions...

Is JWs house the one directly next to the wooded area where the tires tracks were found or is it the next house over?

Also, we're the bikes seen facing east or west on the bike trail?

they could have looped around the block and gone down evans with is shorter ... maybe past mr c's home as well?

don't lose your job!

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's not clear to me because the Carpenters said they have seen them often. They said Elizabeth rides down their street and turns around. They have seen her at "night", not that that necessarily means after dark but they have seen her and they live a mile away from her home! So, either the family is downplaying the fact that Elizabeth is sometimes unsupervised or they just didn't know she was going that far.

I'm going by Ollipop's posts about how unlikely a spot the Carpenter street is for Elizabeth to ride to and turn around on. I think it would be fairly easy for someone to mistake one brown haired 8 year old girl for another.

I wouldn't call Elizabeth unsupervised, at least not for that environment and by my standards. At her age, I don't think many kids need constant supervision by adults if they live in small towns. Having clear boundaries about how far she could go and the expectation she would check back in often would be enough supervision for me. And, I believe, many other parents.

 

[shefner]

Can someone link hollye's map again for us?