IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #7

[FrayedKnot]

Well that IMHO is telling. I remember during one of the first interviews
someone said they thought the girls were abducted. I remember looking at
the tv saying, why use that word so early in a disappearance.
IDk, I pray these little girls are found and brought home safely today.

Sergio Celis said exactly that when he phoned 911 after 'finding' Isabel 'missing'.

Of course IMO the milk ain't clean in that family, so it certainly doesn't mean it's a 'normal' phrasing to use when one's child goes missing.

I still am not convinced the girls' family members are implicit in their disappearance. JMHO

 

[hollye]

From what I understand the only comments about the dogs hitting in the surrounding wooded area are from Tammy. If I am wrong, please refer me to a reliable source that said the dogs hit on anything in that park.

If you look at my map, sorry I don't have access right now, I believe there is a quote on the markers I have for where it is my understanding the dogs hit. That quote may have a link to the source on it. I can't recall. I do recall that the quote was fairly detailed.

 

[tlcya]

From what I understand the only comments about the dogs hitting in the surrounding wooded area are from Tammy. If I am wrong, please refer me to a reliable source that said the dogs hit on anything in that park.

You are correct. We have only TB's description of the dogs behavior and her assumptions on what those behaviors meant (which she admitted on NG several nights ago). Aside from TB's statements about dog hits we have only this from authorities:

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no reported sightings, authorities couldn't be certain.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/16/3707427/few-leads-after-widespread-search.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Wagora]

You are correct. We have only TB's description of the dogs behavior and her assumptions on what those behaviors meant (which she admitted on NG several nights ago). Aside from TB's statements about dog hits we have only this from authorities:

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no reported sightings, authorities couldn't be certain.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/16/3707427/few-leads-after-widespread-search.html#storylink=cpy

But once again----Tammy said on Nancy Grace that somebody saw them there and that the LE had that man's name......... only from Tammy....

 

[elepher50]

Elizabeth C. - more recent picture I think:

http://www.daylife.com/photo/07f02eO59wfoq?__site=daylife&q=Iowa+City,+IA

 

[Pippi]

I’m surprised so many believe the girls weren’t at the lake. It seems far fetched that someone was able to load the bikes (without being seen), drive to the lake, pull onto the grassy path on a summer afternoon (without being seen), get out of the vehicle carrying two bikes on a fairly populated bike trail (without being seen), toss/stage the bikes (without being seen), then drive out of the grassy path (without being seen). All the while, leaving the girls unattended and hoping they weren’t found by someone or able to break loose. Much riskier than just getting the heck out of dodge with bikes in tow!

If he wanted to stage a “drowning” to shift focus to the lake, why wouldn’t he take the girls shoes and purse or an article of clothing that could easily fit into a bag in case he encountered someone on the trail? Why plant two big items, the bikes– keep them with the girls, we haven’t found them yet so why worry about finding the bikes?

Although I’m very interested in Jules’ discovery. Nice work!

JMO, MOO

 

[katydid23]

Elizabeth C. - more recent picture I think:

http://www.daylife.com/photo/07f02eO59wfoq?__site=daylife&q=Iowa+City,+IA

Precious and adorable. This is an awful case. :rose:

 

[tlcya]

But once again----Tammy said on Nancy Grace that somebody saw them there and that the LE had that man's name......... only from Tammy....

yep. Again. Tammy speaks to the press alot. I do think she is sincere in trying to get as much info out there and I think there may be a bit of enjoying all the press attention element to it at this point as well. That said. I worry that she is divulging too much in regards to LE investigation.

I have to go now so don't have time to go back through the threads and pull the links but I do believe I have read them in which it is confirmed by media speaking to this witness who claims to have seen the girls there at the lake that day but I could have him confused with the volunteer firefighter who located the bikes.

Hollye's map has many many many good links illustrating who supposedly saw what and when. That would be where I would start my search for this witness described by TB. Hope that helps.

have a good evening all.

 

[SapphireSteel]

LE believed the girls were IN the lake.

The family never did, in fact got very irate and felt LE weren't listening to their concerns.

Then the FBI came along and also believed the girls were in the lake.

The family is always been adamant someone's abducted them. They know their girls best, and if they were always yelling "abduction" from the get go, it means they knew something was very, very wrong.

Those of us who have regular, trustworthy kids...what would YOU be yelling to a police force who appear determined your girls drowned in an icky, leech infested lake when you KNOW they would not?

IMO.

:moo:

 

[Pippi]

LE believed the girls were IN the lake.

If I recall, they said fairly early (day 3?) after initially searching the lake that they didn't believe the girls were in the lake. They also weren't calling it an abduction at the time.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I’m surprised so many believe the girls weren’t at the lake. It seems far fetched that someone was able to load the bikes (without being seen), drive to the lake, pull onto the grassy path on a summer afternoon (without being seen), get out of the vehicle carrying two bikes on a fairly populated bike trail (without being seen), toss/stage the bikes (without being seen), then drive out of the grassy path (without being seen). All the while, leaving the girls unattended and hoping they weren’t found by someone or able to break loose. Much riskier than just getting the heck out of dodge with bikes in tow!

If he wanted to stage a “drowning” to shift focus to the lake, why wouldn’t he take the girls shoes and purse or an article of clothing that could easily fit into a bag in case he encountered someone on the trail? Why plant two big items, the bikes– keep them with the girls, we haven’t found them yet so why worry about finding the bikes?

Although I’m very interested in Jules’ discovery. Nice work!

JMO, MOO

What if he didn't own a truck to "get out of dodge with the bikes in tow" with? I know 2 bikes (not even one bike!) would fit in my little sedan. Imagine that you live 2 doors down from the woods. You invite 2 little girls inside and do something awful to them. Now you have to get rid of their bikes. They won't fit in your car! What do you do?! Oh, well, lucky for you, you happen to live VERY close to a bike path, and you also happen to be a big, muscle bound guy. So you pick up one bike in each hand and you walk across your neighbor's front yard and disappear into the woods. Once you reemerge on the other side, you only have to walk about 100 feet (or less) to dump the bikes on the trail. IMO, it would be VERY easy, and VERY necessary to do so.

 

[Jules71]

Where is Ollipop? He posted last night that he was at the lake on the 14th (I think) and saw LE in the yard of one of those houses that back up to the lake on Evans. This is what got me wanting to see who lived along there. I really would like to know if it was the "W" house where he saw LE.

 

[JaimeInLA]

LE believed the girls were IN the lake.

The family never did, in fact got very irate and felt LE weren't listening to their concerns.

Then the FBI came along and also believed the girls were in the lake.

The family is always been adamant someone's abducted them. They know their girls best, and if they were always yelling "abduction" from the get go, it means they knew something was very, very wrong.

Those of us who have regular, trustworthy kids...what would YOU be yelling to a police force who appear determined your girls drowned in an icky, leech infested lake when you KNOW they would not?

IMO.

:moo:

I don't think the FBI comes along unless there is evidence of an abduction. They wouldn't get involved if they were pretty sure the girls were in the lake. It isn't their jurisdiction. I think they had to have known this was an abduction before getting involved. They just had to put divers in the lake to rule it out.

 

[IAM]

I am not stating as fact that the girls did not go to the lake. I am just saying that so far as we really know, there has been nothing said by LE or dog handlers that verify this. The only thing I have heard was from Tammy. I would like to see links to any other source if anyone has one. Because, if we cannot put the girls at the lake, we can be more open to other places they may have ventured and the timeline might make more sense.

 

[cluciano63]

LE believed the girls were IN the lake.

The family never did, in fact got very irate and felt LE weren't listening to their concerns.

Then the FBI came along and also believed the girls were in the lake.

The family is always been adamant someone's abducted them. They know their girls best, and if they were always yelling "abduction" from the get go, it means they knew something was very, very wrong.

Those of us who have regular, trustworthy kids...what would YOU be yelling to a police force who appear determined your girls drowned in an icky, leech infested lake when you KNOW they would not?

IMO.

:moo:

LE had to rule out the girls being in the lake, not by choice, i.e. being in the lake after killed on land.

 

[Pippi]

What if he didn't own a truck to "get out of dodge with the bikes in tow" with? I know 2 bikes (not even one bike!) would fit in my little sedan. Imagine that you live 2 doors down from the woods. You invite 2 little girls inside and do something awful to them. Now you have to get rid of their bikes. They won't fit in your car! What do you do?! Oh, well, lucky for you, you happen to live VERY close to a bike path, and you also happen to be a big, muscle bound guy. So you pick up one bike in each hand and you walk across your neighbor's front yard and disappear into the woods. Once you reemerge on the other side, you only have to walk about 100 feet (or less) to dump the bikes on the trail. IMO, it would be VERY easy, and VERY necessary to do so.

If it's what I think you're implying that they arrived on their bikes at that location (aka house), then I consider that *at* the lake.

I do think that scenario is possible. I just don't see how it's possible for the abduction to take place downtown and for the bikes to have been transported/staged as some suggested.

JMO, MOO

 

[Truman]

If you look at my map, sorry I don't have access right now, I believe there is a quote on the markers I have for where it is my understanding the dogs hit. That quote may have a link to the source on it. I can't recall. I do recall that the quote was fairly detailed.

Hollye, that is one helluva great map. Thank you button didn't seem like enough, so...thank you!

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think the FBI comes along unless there is evidence of an abduction. They wouldn't get involved if they were pretty sure the girls were in the lake. It isn't their jurisdiction. I think they had to have known this was an abduction before getting involved. They just had to put divers in the lake to rule it out.

Actually, the FBI does get involved in all sort of crimes, if local LE is short-handed, less than experienced, or just needs resources. Where I live, FBI is on almost every major crime from the start, just to help out.

 

[Jules71]

I want to know if Gamerdinger saw a paddle boat. If his sighting of the bikes is correct - the girls could have been on just the other side of the fence waiting to get into a paddle boat. Also, didn't he say he had to swerve 'as he came around the corner'. So looking at the map we see a corner both to the east and west of that gate where the jetty is. I wonder which corner the bikes were at. My guess is the corner closest to the wooded area. Does anyone know which direction TG was riding?

And remind me - where the girls' bike facing west? If so, they could have cut through that wooded area after coming down Lake Ave.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I tend to disregard half of what Aunt T is saying now. Not because I think she is lying, but because (as I believe someone may have alluded to earlier), she may embellish a bit in her enthusiasm to help. IMO, she's been in some trouble before and knows MCM and DM have criminal histories, so she is maybe a little too over-the-top trying to get people to see they are being helpful. When people have been in trouble before, they know some people will never let them forget it. So, it kind of puts them on the defensive. I think that may explain why she talks so much and is sometimes hard to follow. She's just trying too hard to let people know she's one of the "good guys" here. And I believe her.