IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #8

[JaimeInLA]

Just bouncing off your post..

So let me get this straight. Dan was supposed to appear in court the day before the girls disappeared (7/12) to accept a plea deal that would give him a mandatory 5 yrs in jail rather than 45 yrs - and he decided not to accept it and wants a trial instead? No wonder why they wanted him under pre-trial supervision. Maybe he is/was going to run for it. Maybe the girls have a head start in getting wherever he planned to go. JMO

Close, but one correction -- Dan is facing 5 counts that carry 45 years EACH. So he turned down a plea deal that would have guaranteed him 5 years -- and now risks 5x45 (225?) years in jail. I'm sure those would be served concurrently, but still - it makes the chance of parole or early release less likely. So again -- WHY?! Dan had to have known that something was going to happen on 7/13. Someone had to have made threats, or given him some other really good reason.

(Of course, then I remember that he was taking a nap when this all went down, so maybe I'm wrong.)

IMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Not at all. There was no relationship between the murderers and the victim's mother. The confessed murderer has stated that the victim was randomly chosen because they wanted to kidnap a child and Victoria was walking home from school alone. Victoria was lured by strangers with the promise of seeing a dog.

It's quite possible that the kidnapper(s) in this case use meth, or that they have seen the victim's parents in the small town, but the girls were most likely taken because the kidnapper wants little girls.

Very true.

However there are aspects of the timing and other things that I cannot discuss, that are ringing massive bells for me. I don't believe in coincidence and I have faith in my own instincts and common sense.

I have always thought that the girls knew who took them. I also now believe that LE knows what happened, and we will be hearing of arrests any day now.

Of course I could be 100% incorrect...but that's what we do here, right? Have our own opinions, formed on our own knowlege/instinct, and we are here to discuss them without (somehow) breaching TOS...which in this case is becoming almost impossible.

:moo:

 

[otto]

Me too Otto. It is something that Tara will never be able to shake as long as she lives. Tara was a victim in the same manner as was Rodney, Daryn and Victoria herself. The whole family was victimized by two very evil people.

I can understand how it's easy to get sidetracked with the drug use. As soon as we hear about illegal drugs, we mistakenly assume that the family has more illegal dealings and that they associate with criminals. From there, it's a short leap to mistakenly assume that the family is responsible if the children disappear. I do think that children of drug abusing parents may be less supervised and may have to grow up fast, but I don't think it should be assumed that because the parents have spiralled into the depths of drug abuse, they or their drug use are responsible for criminal acts against their family.

 

[Unscripted]

Please forgive my ignorance. What does "cash receipt" mean? Does this mean all receipts from the store including credit card receipts which have names? Does "cash receipt" only mean receipts where someone paid cash?

It would mean all the itemized details (product codes/details included) on all receipts for everything sold no matter how the customer paid (credit card, debit, gift card or cash). Just putting on my auditor’s hat from my forensic accounting days...

They could be looking to see a type of cigarette brand, candy that the girls were known to like (a possible lure), purchases of rope, duct tape, area or state park maps…

 

[Mimiof8]

Bumping as a reminder.

BBM

I was just about to post that as well. Thanks!

 

[BunnyHop]

Please forgive my ignorance. What does "cash receipt" mean? Does this mean all receipts from the store including credit card receipts which have names? Does "cash receipt" only mean receipts where someone paid cash?

I think that's just semantics. Cash receipts meaning cash register receipts.

 

[Sunlight]

I don't know. I mean if they had just left the house a little after noon, and were seen right there in the parking lot at 12:15, then why drive around for an hour and search for them just 15 minutes later? It seems odd.

If they had left at 11:30, and were seen only once, then I can easily understand the family driving around and mobilizing on a search. But if they left at 12:15, were seen at the parking lot across the field, but then 15 minutes later, everyone is so concerned? It seems weird, imo.

Well, I was thinking that, just as other parents on these threads say, they want to keep close tabs on their kids...some don't ever let them out of their sight...this family is certainly "streetwise"...so it doesn't surprise me that if they can't connect with them fairly frequently, they get worried too. Just sayin'.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Murder of Victoria Stafford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The mother was familiar with one of the two That we're arrested for her killing.
In court, McDonald admitted she had been to McClintic's house twice prior to the kidnapping — once to buy OxyContin from the young woman's mother, Carol, and the second time to discuss the possibility of breeding their dogs

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Victoria...e+suspicions/6601478/story.html#ixzz21r0AbEQ1

O/T a bit,
I remember the picture of one of the perps walking
VS to their car or van. My heart dropped.

Sincerely wishing nothing less than
our Iowa girls to be found safe and sound.

 

[katydid23]

I can understand how it's easy to get sidetracked with the drug use. As soon as we hear about illegal drugs, we mistakenly assume that the family has more illegal dealings and that they associate with criminals. From there, it's a short leap to mistakenly assume that the family is responsible if the children disappear. I do think that children of drug abusing parents may be less supervised and may have to grow up fast, but I don't think it should be assumed that because the parents have spiralled into the depths of drug abuse, they or their drug use are responsible for criminal acts against their family.

But in this case, it is not just a family member getting high recreationally. This is a pretty extensive drug history including manufacturing and distribution, and involving many others in a network.
I don't think anyone in the family did anything to the girls. But I do think that they have some enemies in the community because of the upcoming trials and they may have become targets for revenge.

 

[vasportsmom]

BBM: You know it!

That is PRECISELY how Matthew Hoffman was caught.

He bought garbage bags and tarps from Walmart prior to breaking in and murdering and dismembering his 3 beautiful victims.

He left the Walmart Bag with the receipt for the items in the garage of the victims' homes.

LE determined who he was by matching the purchase time to the video of him in the store at Walmart.

Actually, there are many cases where the perps have been caught by the simple factor that they held onto a receipt.

I hope a receipt helps brings the girls home.

A few years my mother and my uncle were sneaking cigs to my brother in prison with the help of a guard. He was selling the cigs, paying the guard off and profiting several hundred dollars per carton. Anyway, the last time they made a drop the bag was found by another CO and he reported it. The receipt was left in the bag and my uncle had scanned his store value card when he made the purchase so he was quickly found and charged. They connected him to my brother and the guard was tied in from there. All three were tried and convicted of several charges.

I hope a receipt will be equally useful in bringing this case to justice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SapphireSteel]

I can understand how it's easy to get sidetracked with the drug use. As soon as we hear about illegal drugs, we mistakenly assume that the family has more illegal dealings and that they associate with criminals. From there, it's a short leap to mistakenly assume that the family is responsible if the children disappear. I do think that children of drug abusing parents may be less supervised and may have to grow up fast, but I don't think it should be assumed that because the parents have spiralled into the depths of drug abuse, they or their drug use are responsible for criminal acts against their family.

I don't think it's the drug use per se.

Most posters here who double check msm are well aware that there are inconsistencies in timing and other declarations which need to be explained.

When family decides to form a closer relationship to the media than they do with LE, it is a red flag.

In this case we have had people refusing to co-operate with LE.

LE has apparently become very aggressive in their approach to some members.

Supoenas have been issued for media notes and footage of MCM and WC. Does that make them eligble for sleuthing on here? I don't know.

Does the fact that the courts have suddenly placed supervision on DM mean he is eligible for sleuthing? I don't know.

The fact remains there are some worrying indicators which need to be taken into consideration when sleuthing, and they will affect an intelligent person's judgement of what is most LIKELY to have happened.

:dunno:

:moo:

 

[IAM]

I am still confused as to where Dan and Misti's relationship is. He assaulted her months prior and they were separated and Misti had a BF. Then, the girl's go missing, her BF is jailed and we hear her in all the interviews saying, "Dan & I" as if they were a couple. They were also in hotel/motel room together. In one interview they were standing very close/touching and it appeared she even nudged him as he was speaking of the previous disappearance of Lyric with the other cousin. In another video he has his arm ariund her waist. In , yet another, he is holding the media back from her in a very protective way. I am curious as to why the sudden change in their relationship. Or, do you view this as a coming together for their daughter's sake? I just don't know what to make of it. And where is this bf now?

 

[SapphireSteel]

A few years my mother and my uncle were sneaking cigs to my brother in prison with the help of a guard. He was selling the cigs, paying the guard off and profiting several hundred dollars per carton. Anyway, the last time they made a drop the bag was found by another CO and he reported it. The receipt was left in the bag and my uncle had scanned his store value card when he made the purchase so he was quickly found and charged. They connected him to my brother and the guard was tied in from there. All three were tried and convicted of several charges.

I hope a receipt will be equally useful in bringing this case to justice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gosh I had a sheltered childhood....thank you for sharing...I sincerely hope so.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am still confused as to where Dan and Misti's relationship is. He assaulted her months prior and they were separated and Misti had a BF. Then, the girl's go missing, her BF is jailed and we hear her in all the interviews saying, "Dan & I" as if they were a couple. They were also in hotel/motel room together. In one interview they were standing very close/touching and it appeared she even nudged him as he was speaking of the previous disappearance of Lyric with the other cousin. In another video he has his arm ariund her waist. In , yet another, he is holding the media back from her in a very protective way. I am curious as to why the sudden change in their relationship. Or, do you view this as a coming together for their daughter's sake? I just don't know what to make of it. And where is this bf now?

I have seen a candid photo of them and the body language is of a couple who are very passionate and in love.

He is clearly her man. IMO.

It would be touching in other circumstances.

:moo:

 

[FrayedKnot]

But in this case, it is not just a family member getting high recreationally. This is a pretty extensive drug history including manufacturing and distribution, and involving many others in a network.
I don't think anyone in the family did anything to the girls. But I do think that they have some enemies in the community because of the upcoming trials and they may have become targets for revenge.

That is my hunch as well, although it really could be a stranger and totally random.

My issue was with some of the comments regarding Lyric especially and her parents to a lesser extent.

Do they have shady pasts? Yep. (even Lyric's past actions and her appearance are being brought up in a derogatory light and she is TEN)

Are they victims, according to WS TOS? You betcha.

If LE names them POIs, then sure, gloves are off. But if those girls come home safe and it is discovered their folks were innocent of 'disappearing' them, how awful would it be to read these things? Especially for Lyric.

JMHO.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I have seen a photo of them and the body language is of a couple who are very passionate and in love.

I got that sense, too. Hopefully they can clean up their lives, and the girls will be found, and all will be well. Hopefully.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

But in this case, it is not just a family member getting high recreationally. This is a pretty extensive drug history including manufacturing and distribution, and involving many others in a network.
I don't think anyone in the family did anything to the girls. But I do think that they have some enemies in the community because of the upcoming trials and they may have become targets for revenge.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. I would think that the recent rash of abduction attempts, in some cases of more than one child, would be the most likely scenario.
What good would abducting two girls do in terms of revenge or stopping DM from talking to police?

I have to agree with Otto in this matter. I think people are making way too many assumptions based on the parents history drug abuse.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't both parents take and pass drug tests? So why would they pass tests if they were still in the business of selling or consuming drugs?

 

[katydid23]

I thought it was a random stranger abduction originally. especially when the original timeline was 11:30 for the girls leaving to ride their bikes.

But this new, narrower timeline makes it very unlikely, imo, that a stranger could have just happened upon them between 12:15, and then 12:20 something, when their bikes were seen on the path.

 

[Tramp123]

Yeah, her comment just gave him a death warrant imo.

I agree with your comments 100%. :moo:

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Jessica Lundsford's family was outright accused by LE and they had nothing to do with it. They were crucified by the public because of what LE said, and didn't say to the media. Somer Thompson's mother was crucified by the public because she didn't "act right" and people thought her clothes were too revealing.

Do I think Lyric had stellar parents? Not a chance, do I think they had something to do with it? All I know is what LE has said, and that hasn't been much.

I wouldn't rule out the opportunistic predator (which could include people in their circle) or a grooming situation just yet. MOO of course.