IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[loganone]

Hi Christine! And welcome Loganone. Logan, Christine is only new to this thread...

Oh I am so sorry. I hope I did not offend you Christine.

After I posted, I did my homework and saw the contributions Christine has made.

To keep this post kinda on topic. I am working on a 3d model of the face of the mystery man in the photo on johnnygosch.com, If I get anywhere with it, I will be glad to share the photo to those that would like it.

The humble newbie

 

[HeartofTexas]

Logan, please don't apologize. Absolutely no need. I was just trying to let you know how you could tell if someone was new (low number of posts) or had been around (high number of posts or older "join" date). We were all new at one time and had to go thru the trial and error of figuring out what was going on.

And yes, I'm interested in seeing your 3D model of mystery man's face when you get finished with it.

 

[HeartofTexas]

On johnnygosch.com there is an update that says it has a picture of Jacob Wetterling with his hair dyed dark.

Hollywood, that's interesting that they're saying Jacob's hair was dyed dark because I just finished reading something at AMW re Johnny's hair being dyed black. It sounds like a running theme with these boys that their hair is dyed to probably disguise their looks somewhat.

The Colonel" was the man who Bonacci said ran a ranch in Colorado. Bonacci said the last time he saw Johnny was back in 1986 at that same ranch. Johnny, whose hair was now dyed black, and was renamed "Mark", had attempted to run away. When they caught up with him, they branded Johnny on his right buttock, like a piece of livestock.

http://amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

And I agree re not clicking on some of those sites. I went to Noreen's site the other day and followed a link (can't remember which one) and it shut down my entire PC. Afterwards, my PC gave me a message that said "a serious error" had occurred. So I'm staying away from the links now, too.

 

[docwho3]

Hiya, ya'll, been lurkin in this case...was wondering....could someone who is familiar do a quick timeline and a who's who in the case for us newbies...I'm so confused right now. Sometimes it's nice on a long thread to every now and then post up timeline to this point, and who all is involved...anyone?

The info found here and the external links listed on the page may prove helpful for some readers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch

 

[inquiringmindz]

I am working on a 3d model of the face of the mystery man in the photo on johnnygosch.com, If I get anywhere with it, I will be glad to share the photo to those that would like it.

The humble newbie

Newbie, welcome to WS! I'd love to see the model when you are done it sounds very interesting. I'm looking forward to your post!

 

[HeartofTexas]

I just read the following paragraph on the AMW site re Johnny Gosch, and I wasn't familiar with what they were talking about. Does anyone else know more details re this part of the story? Who was Gary Caradori? Was he reputable? Did they ever learn anything about "the smoking gun" information? Was it a coincidence that the plane exploded, or does anyone feel it might have been something more sinister?

In 1990, Investigator Gary Caradori who was investigating Paul Bonacci's claims for the Nebraska State Legislation, urgently phoned State Senator Loran Schmit from Chicago saying he had found "the smoking gun." Caradori told Schmit he would fly that night from Chicago on his private plane with his son back to Lincoln, Nebraska. The plane exploded over Aurora, Ilinois killing Caradori and his eight year old son. According to an eyewitness, just before hearing the explosion, he saw a "flash of light." Caradori's briefcase and the rear seat to the plane never were recovered.

http://amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

 

[HeartofTexas]

Here's another blurb from the AMW site on Johnny Gosch. Does anyone think this Jimmy (from 1993) could be the same Jimmy mentioned a few posts back that wrote about the pix on the blog?

Mar 1993
"Jimmy" Gets Interviewed

Jimmy stepped forward and was interviewed on AMW. While he never showed his face, Jimmy gave a lot of solid evidence. He spoke of his friendship with Johnny, showed evidence of branding he tells was a punishment for the boys, and even gave a diary he kept of his horrible experience.

 

[annemc2]

I may be missing something obvious here (photo flipped or something) but on the johnnygosch.com site Noreen says that the birthmark she has "been talking about for years" is on the right side. The side visible to us is the boy's left side. I couldn't make out any marks. Can anyone else see the birthmark on the boy in the photo?

 

[William R Thomas]

I just read the following paragraph on the AMW site re Johnny Gosch, and I wasn't familiar with what they were talking about. Does anyone else know more details re this part of the story? Who was Gary Caradori? Was he reputable? Did they ever learn anything about "the smoking gun" information? Was it a coincidence that the plane exploded, or does anyone feel it might have been something more sinister?


http://amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

Caradori was an investigator for the Nebraska state legislature, who in the end ,found Bonnaci reputable, and his story credible. He was supposedly given photographs that would blow it [the case] wide open. His plane crashed under REALLY suspicious circumstances in Aurora, IL, about 6 miles from my house, on July 11th, 1990.

Ironically, Robert Wadman just happened to be the chief of police of Aurora at the time. Caradori flew his own plane from place to place. I truly believe the plane was sabotaged, as he warned of this happening for days before the event. His young son was also killed in the crash.

I have been pissing off the Aurora police department for the last 4 weeks, asking a lot of questions that nobody wants to answer. I will keep you posted.

 

[William R Thomas]

I may be missing something obvious here (photo flipped or something) but on the johnnygosch.com site Noreen says that the birthmark she has "been talking about for years" is on the right side. The side visible to us is the boy's left side. I couldn't make out any marks. Can anyone else see the birthmark on the boy in the photo?

If you blow up the photographs really large in photoshop, about 1000dpi across, the birthmark becomes discernable, without question. As do the severe bruising and swelling under the boys eyes.

 

[FourthBase]

Does anyone think this Jimmy (from 1993) could be the same Jimmy mentioned a few posts back that wrote about the pix on the blog?

No, that "Jimmy Gibson" on the Register blog was a troll. See above.

For other questions...
- Caradori was probably (IMO definitely) murdered
- I don't see a birthmark, either, and I didn't notice she said "right side"

 

[HeartofTexas]

Thanks William and Fourth for your responses on Mr. Caradori. I did some further research on my own last night and saw that he was warning people a week before his crash that he feared his plane might be sabotaged. I also read that his son was only 6 years old. How sad that he allowed his son to fly with him if he feared something might happen.

Incidents like Caradori's plane exploding in mid-air certainly lend a lot of credence to some of the stories circulating about Bonacci and Gosch. It's hard not to think in terms of a "cover-up" when you read things like this. And there seems to be one odd event after another, beginning in 1982, pertaining to Gosch.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Let me share with you all, what's been keeping me up at night for the last few years.

After going through all the publicly available info relating to the Gosch case, in the wake of the Gosch=Gannon farce, and systematically stripping away everything that was not a verifiable & undisputed fact - I was left with Paul Bonacci's confession of involvement in kidnapping and sexually assaulting Johnny Gosch. (The confession is a fact, not necessarily anything contained in the confession)

I was discussing this with some friends and it occurred to me - what if some elements of Bonacci's confession were descriptions of real events, but other elements were not?

What if Bonacci had a need to relieve psychological pressure by confessing his participation in horrific crimes, but was
a) minimizing his own responsibility by weaving his confessions into a tale in which he himself would appear to have been "a helpless victim"
b) masking the identity of the real participants (and victims) in the crimes by making them fantasy characters or real, public figures that actually had nothing to do with the crimes?

This is a known phenomenon. People who commit horrific acts have been known to confess to them in convoluted ways, minimizing their own responsibility and sometimes burying the true facts within elaborate fantasies that can never be corroborated.

So what if some of Bonacci's description of the kidnapping of Gosch and his own involvement in it was factual - enough for him to be 'sincere' when he meets Noreen Gosch and sobs out how sorry he is, and get the relief of pressure he needs - but the identities of his real accomplices in the deed are being masked or hidden in that confession? For example, what if the real "pedophile ring" Bonacci was involved in was actually himself and some older friends...like Troy Boner, Boner's older brother and possibly Alisha Owen's older brother?

What if the rape & murder of a boy described by Bonacci as happening at Bohemian Grove, actually happened somewhere in Nebraska or Iowa? What if the victim was not some unknown, random boy, but was really Johnny Gosch or Eugene Martin?

What if Paul Bonacci, who has readily admitted to be mentally ill, is really far more disturbed than even the people closest to him since he made his 'confession', realize?

What if he is a psychopath who has been playing John DeCamp, Ted Gunderson & Noreen Gosch like fiddles for years - all thw while chuckling to himself in some dark corner of his person that he has so tightly wrapped up that even those closest to him never see it? What if the fox has been hiding safely in the henhouse all these years?

I'm sure that all these people would say - but Paul's not like that! Well, Gacy wasn't "like that", Bundy wasn't "like that", Gary Ridgeway wasn't "like that" either.

This is sheer speculation - I admit that. But I'm very serious about it, and it troubles me often.

 

[HeartofTexas]

What if the rape & murder of a boy described by Bonacci as happening at Bohemian Grove, actually happened somewhere in Nebraska or Iowa? What if the victim was not some unknown, random boy, but was really Johnny Gosch or Eugene Martin?

What if Paul Bonacci, who has readily admitted to be mentally ill, is really far more disturbed than even the people closest to him since he made his 'confession', realize?

What if he is a psychopath who has been playing John DeCamp, Ted Gunderson & Noreen Gosch like fiddles for years - all thw while chuckling to himself in some dark corner of his person that he has so tightly wrapped up that even those closest to him never see it? What if the fox has been hiding safely in the henhouse all these years?

What if everything Bonacci said is true?

What if the things described by Bonacci are not only true but still going on today?

What if all of it is true and yet nobody wants to believe it and nobody wants to rock the boat.

What if everything in the Franklin Cover-Up is true and yet still our government has done nothing about it?

What if all of it is true and yet the American press never reported on it or never challenged the truth?

What if the people involved in this scandal were so powerful that they could control reports by the media?

What if sex, power and corruption were documented all the way back to the days of the Roman Empire and yet people today refused to believe it could happen?

 

[miles_draken]

That is a very interesting theory. I also think certain elements of this conspiracy theory stuff could be true, but I doubt all the political connections with it. Of course they could find Johnny Gosch's body someday and conclude he was killed within 48 hours of being taken, who knows? This, unfortunately, will probably never be solved in the public eye. Eventually those involved will die if they haven't already and it will just remain a sad, unsolved case among many.

 

[Roy Harrold]

As I said, Heart of Texas, I'm speculating.
There is a principle that, although not always true, might be usefully applied in this case - the simpler explanation is probably the better one.

I will address your series of what ifs, however.
If, in fact, "everything Bonacci said is true", "our government has done nothing about it", and "the people involved in this scandal were so powerful that they could control reports by the media" - then all law enforcement, media and government must be hopelessly corrupted and controlled by this alleged conspiracy.

And if that were true, it would have been impossible for any of these allegations to ever become public. If that were true, Bonacci would never have been allowed to meet with DeCamp in the first place. There would be no living witnesses to anything.

But that scenario is contradicted over & over again by verifiable fact.
If the FBI is controlled by a child sex slave conspiracy, why have they been actively busting child pornographers since the 1970's (as evidenced by the interview with one of their top *advertiser censored* investigators I posted earlier). If Larry King was the leader of a conspiracy so powerful it controlled the White House, the CIA and the FBI - how is it that his credit unuion scam was investigated and brought down by the FBI?
How could Bonacci still be alive? and John DeCamp? and Noreen Gosch, Ted Gunderson, Rusty Nelson, Michael Corbin, Rothstein, all the many website owners hosting related conspiracy material, all the am radio personalities that have had "exposers" as guests many times? Why would this website be allowed to exist?

And why didn't you yourself mysteriously vanish the first time you said anything about the conspiracy, publicly?

 

[William R Thomas]

What if everything Bonacci said is true?

What if the things described by Bonacci are not only true but still going on today?

What if all of it is true and yet nobody wants to believe it and nobody wants to rock the boat.

What if everything in the Franklin Cover-Up is true and yet still our government has done nothing about it?

What if all of it is true and yet the American press never reported on it or never challenged the truth?

What if the people involved in this scandal were so powerful that they could control reports by the media?

What if sex, power and corruption were documented all the way back to the days of the Roman Empire and yet people today refused to believe it could happen?

Roy Harrold, you have some interesting theories, but I don't agree with much of anything that you post.

Earlier you posted a "when they find Johnny dead..." post. If you sincerely believe this, I can only wonder what your motivations are? I'm not trying to incite you, it just doesn't make sense to me. I am not trivializing your involvement here, you obviously have a deep emotional & intellectual involvement in this case, as do I. I guess I just can't always fathom which hill your standing on as you view this case.

 

[HeartofTexas]

If you believe everything you just typed, Roy, then I've had my last discussion with you. I in no way intend that as an insult... just that I have better things to do with my time than discuss a topic with someone who sees things so differently. It's like trying to describe the color blue to someone who is color blind... they're just never going to be able to see it.

 

[William R Thomas]

And why didn't you yourself mysteriously vanish the first time you said anything about the conspiracy, publicly?

That question is so rhetorical, that it almost doesn't warrant answers. Why does any story come to fruition? Why are politicians sometimes found to be corrupt and prosecuted?

They can't kill everyone Roy, and despite what you would like to believe, the government has been involved in some horrible and nasty things from time-to-time, against their own citizens.

Now, I believe the government is nothing but a minor bit player in this. it's easy to reference this case in the framework of todays society, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, but go back to to 1982, when this kidnapping happened. Did you have cable? Did you even have caller ID? how about the internet? The answer is no, becasue these things were years away from working themselves into mass public consumption.

How easy would it have been to manipulate small town media for someone, even one person, in washington, or even at the level of the local police, which Orville Cooney, the acting Chief of Police, factually and methodically did? What was his motivation? You are one for proof, Roy, well his non-cooperation with this case is legendary and documented. I haven't heard you comment on what his motivation might have been, especially since he was the first to drop the ball. the trail of incompetence starts with him, and continues to this day.

You state simple is better, but there is nothing simple about this case, not on day one, and not now.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Mr. Thomas, I truly can't convey to you how refreshing your posts are. Thank you for taking the time to share your opinions and observations.