IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #3

[PattyCake]

Yes THANK YOU. So Dr Doogie, why was he never a serious contender in the potential option of Johnny's abduction / murder? Do you know? Just watching that program, it seems with what they said, he should have been considered better, no??

quoting my quote - hoping for an answer. Why wouldn't Jorbet be a serious option for Johnny's kidnap/ murder. Time and area works well. Not to mention the fact that he kidnapped newspaper boys early morning.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Sorry, Pattycakes, I did not answer because I do not know the answer to what seems like a good question. I will ask around among the conspiracy believers and get some facts. To quote my cyborg governor: "I'll be back!"

 

[Rhett]

What I don't understand is if Johnny visited Noreen after he was grown and said that he was in hiding then why didn't Noreen just let it go. I mean if it were my son I would be afraid that I would endanger his life by speaking out. You know if he was kidnapped by a pedophile ring or any other ring and he managed to escape they may be looking for him as well as Noreen is.

 

[Cubby]

Maybe a dumb question. Was John really 5'7" at 12 years old, or is the ht a mistake? That is incredibly tall for a 12 year old. It is waaaaay over the 100th percentile for ht on the boys growth chart and still far over the 100th percentile for the next few years.

thx.

 

[PattyCake]

A very intelligent question I think Cubby as I never ever noticed the height posted on him. I'm going to suspect MAYBE he's 5'1" instead of 5'7" as maybe it was 'written' and sometimes a 1 looks like a 7.

But in actuality, I have no answer for you. I wonder how tall my son will be in 3 years at 12 years old. My husband is 6'4" - my son already 4'10" at 9.

Maybe a dumb question. Was John really 5'7" at 12 years old, or is the ht a mistake? That is incredibly tall for a 12 year old. It is waaaaay over the 100th percentile for ht on the boys growth chart and still far over the 100th percentile for the next few years.

thx.

 

[Pandora]

Maybe a dumb question. Was John really 5'7" at 12 years old, or is the ht a mistake? That is incredibly tall for a 12 year old. It is waaaaay over the 100th percentile for ht on the boys growth chart and still far over the 100th percentile for the next few years.

thx.

I've been 5'6" since I was nine. Granted, I'm female, but my "boyfriend" in seventh grade was 12/13 and approximately 5'10"/5'11". He was the only boy taller than I anywhere near my age!

 

[Cubby]

A very intelligent question I think Cubby as I never ever noticed the height posted on him. I'm going to suspect MAYBE he's 5'1" instead of 5'7" as maybe it was 'written' and sometimes a 1 looks like a 7.

But in actuality, I have no answer for you. I wonder how tall my son will be in 3 years at 12 years old. My husband is 6'4" - my son already 4'10" at 9.

Thanks, I thought it might have been incorrect but the sites I found all listed 5'7". I think it's possible, but unlikely, and if it is incorrect it would be nice to have that corrected.

 

[Cubby]

I've been 5'6" since I was nine. Granted, I'm female, but my "boyfriend" in seventh grade was 12/13 and approximately 5'10"/5'11". He was the only boy taller than I anywhere near my age!

Thank you Pandora. wow, that's tall! It's hard for me not to imagine a 12 yr old male at 5'7" having an adult ht somewhere near 6'7", I know it's possible.... but usually not likely. thanks again. (and makes me wonder, those basketball players over 7'.. how tall where they on the growth charts at younger age... way ot, I know.... lol)

 

[Pandora]

Thank you Pandora. wow, that's tall! It's hard for me not to imagine a 12 yr old male at 5'7" having an adult ht somewhere near 6'7", I know it's possible.... but usually not likely. thanks again. (and makes me wonder, those basketball players over 7'.. how tall where they on the growth charts at younger age... way ot, I know.... lol)

The guy I was talking about is now just over 6 feet tall; I am still 5'6". I guess we both just hit our "growth spurts" early. (We're 30-something now.)

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Yes THANK YOU. So Dr Doogie, why was he never a serious contender in the potential option of Johnny's abduction / murder? Do you know? Just watching that program, it seems with what they said, he should have been considered better, no??

I spoke to one of the investigators associated with the Johnny Gosch Foundation and he said that Joubert was not investigated because they had eyewitnesses who identified different people as involved. They believe that the evidence points in a different direction than Joubert.

 

[mysterymax]

It's possible that he was 57" tall (that would translate into 4' 11"). But here is the reason for my post: I have gone on-line to view Noreen's website and it is very sensationalistic and peculiar. There is even a satiric website out there mocking her. Has anyone ever met the woman to give some sort of idea of her mental condition? Has she been examined by psychiatrists? Interrogated by police? (If she hasn't been interrogated then I'm sure the pd doesn't take her seriously.) What she states on her website is so bizarre as to defy belief. However, she has achieved a kind of notoriety that many exhibitionists only dream of. What is the Sleuth common opinion of her?

 

[mysterymax]

The SRA Conspiracy. The common SRA story includes strong commitment to a conspiracy theory of history. That is, the victimization is not seen as the isolated depraved action of a psychotic or sociopathic individual. Instead, the victimization is part of a widespread, multi-generational, nearly omnipotent satanic conspiracy involving thousands or even millions of people, many in the very highest levels of society, government, law enforcement, religion, and even mental health institutions. We have heard SRA stories accusing famous televangelists, police chiefs, FBI agents, the Pope, CIA leaders, U.N. members, millionaires, philanthropists, pastors, teachers, school principals, psychiatrists, and others. Such a conspiracy theory accomplishes two very important objectives: (1) it accounts for the absolute lack of corroborative evidence of SRA;[23] and (2) it allows for commonly accepted assumptions to be adduced in support of its existence.

From "The Hard Facts about SRA"

 

[Shecky]

Maybe a dumb question. Was John really 5'7" at 12 years old, or is the ht a mistake? That is incredibly tall for a 12 year old. It is waaaaay over the 100th percentile for ht on the boys growth chart and still far over the 100th percentile for the next few years.

thx.

At 13, I was about 5'7" or 5'8", topping off at my adult height at 5'9" by age 15.

Then again, I'm female and remember boys usually being shorter than us girls until high school. It it possible he was that height, but I'd agree that that would be pretty tall for a boy that age.

 

[thefragile7393]

Noreen has been around many strange people throughout the years and has likely been influenced by them to some extent. I don't know of any mental illness on her part, though one does not have to be mentally ill to believe in strange conspiracies. Perhaps she is, but even if there is something there, she's not crazy (IMO, crazy people are in institutions, and even then that's not absolute). She's lucid, comprehends things. She's been fed ideas that are odd to say the least, and if you're shown something enough and told something enough (especially under great emotional duress, as she has been over the years), eventually many people are going to believe what they've been told and shown, whether it's true or not. Some of the people she has listened to have hurt her credibility somewhat, IMO, but that dosn't mean that everything said or seen isn't worth listening to. This is why I'm excited to learn that Dr. Doogie has some links to this case now, since he did a great job helping with the Anna Waters case and going through the muck and mire to find facts.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I have had several contacts with Noreen via email and I can emphatically state that she has displayed absolutely no signs of "mental illness". This has settled this issue in my mind and hopefully my relaying of this info will settle it here. I will say that Noreen probably has some personality quirks - exactly the same level of quirks that 100% of the adult population has. I think that, because she is such a public figure, people assign a higher level of expectation of perfection so when she is exposed as a mere mortal doing the best job that she can to find her son, people often interpet this as a flaw. She, like the rest of us, is not perfect, but certainly not "mentally-ill" or motivated by anything other than a desire to solve the mystery surrounding her son's kidnapping.

 

[prd2bokie]

To be quite honest. If any of my children went missing, I'm not too sure how sane I'd be able to remain or for how long.

 

[mysterymax]

I keep coming back to the conspiracy theory that Ms. Gosch so fervently embraces in the spirit of a classic True Believer. It is simply statistically IMPOSSBLE for such a conspiracy to exist, based on the actual numbers of missing children and the fact that, in a group of conspirators so large, there would invariably be someone with a big mouth who'd spill the beans to the wrong people, say, the FBI for instance. Further, if the "Noreen saw Johnny story" is true, why isn't the FBI/local PD, whoever, investigating it? It just doesn't wash.

Here is what I think happened: the kid was kidnapped by the local serial suspect and most likely will never be heard from again. He is gone. Now, in Minnesota, Patty Wetterling keeps her son's name alive in the sanest of ways, refusing to involve herself with kooks or bizarre (and I mean BIZARRE) extremists. Noreen Gosch, on the other hand--well, her website speaks volumes for itself. Sadly, she doesn't sound like a person with any genuine intelligent insight into the reality of her grim situation.

 

[Mr. E]

mysterymax, how do we know that the FBI/local PD are not investigate many of the outlandish-sounding claims Noreen makes? I don't know what I believe about this case...I never went in for the conspiracy theory. But the photos of Johnny seem pretty convincing that something big was happening. Maybe a pedo ring of a smaller scale? Regardless, even though we, the general public, do not hear about what is happening with the investigation, I'm sure there is more going on than we are aware. For instance, I understand that they are investigating the photos of Johnny and other boys, but I hear nothing about it in the news.

 

[youshouldveknown]

It's her glimmer of hope. The least we can do is read it and make up our own minds with what's presented to us.

 

[Mr. E]

Also, and please don't take any disrespect from this post, as I mean nothing more from it than an honest question, but why does everyone always compare the Wetterling and the Gosch cases? I know that there are similarities in both cases, and that there are some in the Gosch camp who believe both Jacob and Johnny were kidnapped by the same group of people, but Patty has not received photos of her son bound, gagged, and most probably severely abused (not that the public is aware of, anyway). So of course she treats her son's case differently than Noreen.