IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #3

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christine2448 said:
Maybe say if the police, investigating agency, believed it were true, the case would be closed?

I haven't followd this case near as close as you all...I have really only read in full the last posts in thread 3 and this thread in full.

What DO the police say about everything on Noreens site? What has their investigation uncovered?
Click to expand...

Ok, I've regained my composure somewhat.

Generally, they say the same thing they say about any open case - diddly squat, or as little as possible.

According to Noreen, the police originally DID diddly-squat. She says they told her, more or less, "boys that age sometime run away. go home and stop bothering us" - and it's quite possible that she's telling the truth about that.

Noreen Gosch subsequently became a hero, and she is a genuine hero, because she wouldn't let them get away with sloughing her off. She championed the cause of legislation forcing police departments to open an investigation into missing child reports immediately, rather than waiting 72 hours to "see if the child will contact/return home". She was also involved in pressuring the Federal government to establish the NCMEC.

Credit, where it is due. We all owe her thanks for those efforts.

The disappearance of Johnny was subsequently investigated by the FBI, in relation to the John Joubert case (refer my earlier links). That was more than a year later, I believe.

But, almost from the start there were also a series of crackpot Private Investigators and others who each filled Noreen's head with a lot of nonsense (in my opinion). Loooooooong story...
 
Roy Harrold said:
Ok, I've regained my composure somewhat.

Generally, they say the same thing they say about any open case - diddly squat, or as little as possible.

According to Noreen, the police originally DID diddly-squat. She says they told her, more or less, "boys that age sometime run away. go home and stop bothering us" - and it's quite possible that she's telling the truth about that.

Noreen Gosch subsequently became a hero, and she is a genuine hero, because she wouldn't let them get away with sloughing her off. She championed the cause of legislation forcing police departments to open an investigation into missing child reports immediately, rather than waiting 72 hours to "see if the child will contact/return home". She was also involved in pressuring the Federal government to establish the NCMEC.

Credit, where it is due. We all owe her thanks for those efforts.

The disappearance of Johnny was subsequently investigated by the FBI, in relation to the John Joubert case (refer my earlier links). That was more than a year later, I believe.

But, almost from the start there were also a series of crackpot Private Investigators and others who each filled Noreen's head with a lot of nonsense (in my opinion). Loooooooong story...
Click to expand...

OK, thanks for trying..seems to fully understand I need delve more, just too many too keep up with! It's so sad!
 
WSTarheel said:
Roy, I have a feeling that you are not going to be receptive to my inquiry but here goes anyways -

Has Wadman ever taken a DNA test to prove that he is not the father of Alicia Owen's child?
Click to expand...

It turns out that he did take a blood test:

http://www.franklincase.org/6-14-91.htm

"Wadman, in his earlier testimony, described Miss Owen's allegations as disgusting and untrue. A blood test last year showed he was not the father of Miss Owen's child."

Wadman is not the father of Alicia Owen's child, and any statements or inferences to the contrary would be defamatory slurs.
 
If he were my dad or granddad I would not expect him to stand by quietly while the family name is dragged through mud and the stench continued unabated for all eternity through the internet That is unless he was guilty in which case I would think he would make some attempt at damage control and to obscure his involvement. What a nightmarish legacy to pass on to kids, grandkids and so on!

Libel and slander are easy enough to pursue when the truth is on your side, but if it is not, then you can always try to stifle the opposition which is all these clowns have left.

Your name is most important and if Lawrence E King cannot defend it then why should we defend him and other perverts who were associated with him and pretend that they are not involved in illegal actions? There are pedophiles, we all know that but who are they ,how come they are never named or held accountable?

They are out there and they have identities and they seem to get away with it over and over and over and over again until we say enough!
 
Surelock - I share your frustration, to some extent, as we all do I'm sure.

I live in Canada, and as you are probably aware we've had some very serious cases where serial pedophiles got away with far too much for far too long:
http://www.mountcashelorphanage.com/

But it's just not true that "they are never named or held accountable". The news media is filled with stories, every week, where sexual offenders are named - as they are being convicted and sentenced for their crimes.

The #1 suspect (in my opinion) for the disappearance of Johnny Gosch - John Joubert - certainly is known and was eventually executed. Tragically, not before he took the lives of several children - someone's precious sons.

In relation to "the Franklin Case", however, there were a series of false allegations - motivated by the promise of million-dollar lawsuits. We know this, because some of those involved in making the false allegations confessed to doing that:
http://www.franklincase.org/6-5-91.htm

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"James Daniel "Danny" King said Tuesday that he decided to recant his story of sexual abuse after his first meeting with the FBI Feb. 9, 1990.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I knew they (FBI agents) were going to catch us . . . because it was all a lie," King testified in the perjury trial of Alisha Owen in Douglas County District Court.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King, 21, was one of three young people who gave Gary Caradori videotaped allegations of sexual abuse in late 1989. Caradori, a Lincoln private detective, was working as investigator for the Legislature's special Franklin Community Federal Credit Union Committee.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of the FBI agents, King said: "They weren't like Gary (Caradori). They were writing things down, and they were going to go back and double-check. Gary, he'd write it down and leave it. I knew they were going to double-check.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Half the people I named (during the Caradori interview) I wouldn't know if they were sitting next to me. I didn't want to go to jail when they caught me."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Final Prosecution Witness
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King was the prosecution's final witness. Wednesday, the jury viewed more of Caradori's seven hours of videotaped interviews of Miss Owen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King testified Tuesday that he tried to warn Caradori that the sexual-abuse allegations King, Troy Boner and Miss Owen made in late 1989 were "just one big scam."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When Caradori refused to believe him, King decided that "if he wants to hear a good story, I'll tell him a good story," King testified.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Douglas County grand jury later called the sexual-abuse allegations a "carefully crafted hoax." It indicted Miss Owen, 22, on eight counts of perjury when she testified that, among other things, she had a sexual relationship in 1983 and 1984 with Robert Wadman, then Omaha's police chief.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King and Boner, 24, recanted their sexual-abuse statements by the time they testified before the grand jury. King said he tried to tell Caradori and his assistant, Karen Ormiston, the truth before his statement was videotaped Dec. 2, 1989.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'Just Trying to Scam You'[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I said, 'Hey, look, Gary, you and Karen are real nice. But all this is a lie. It's just one big scam. Troy and Alisha are just trying to scam you,' " King recounted under questioning by prosecutor Gerald Moran, a deputy Douglas County attorney.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Gary just kept saying, 'I know you're scared,' " King recalled. "I finally got tired of it. I thought, 'If he wants to hear a good story, I'll tell him a good story.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Caradori was killed in a plane crash last July.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King said it was true that he once was sexually abused by a Ralston man.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]However, in response to questions from Moran, he said he never met Franklin top executive Lawrence E. King Jr., Wadman, retired World-Herald publisher Harold W. Andersen, Omaha businessman Alan Baer or Douglas County District Judge Theodore Carlson, all of whom were accused of sexual misconduct in the Caradori videotapes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King said he had been friends with Boner since 1984 or 1985.'[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chronic Liar[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Responding to defense lawyer Henry Rosenthal Jr., King acknowledged that he had described Boner as a "chronic liar" and as "a scam artist."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rosenthal: "Did you tell the grand jury that Boner is a scam artist that tries to get money out of everything he comes into contact with?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King: "Yeah."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King acknowledged that in early 1990, Boner was inducing a Lincoln woman to buy him clothes and give him money. He also said Boner lied to Miss Owen when he told her he was a movie producer and would marry her.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"If they want to buy him things, if they want to believe him, I guess that's their problem," King said. Rosenthal ended his cross-examination after that answer.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King said he and Miss Owen occasionally talked on the telephone in the months after the videotapes were made. Once, during an argument with her, King said he threatened to tell the truth about the videotapes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]" 'I'll hunt you down till the day I die if you tell the truth,' " she told him, he said. "I said, 'Whatever, man. You're crazy.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'A Bunch of Money'[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In response to Moran's questions, King said Boner came to his apartment in late November 1989 and told him there was a private detective - Caradori - outside who believed Boner and King were the victims of sexual abuse and wanted them to tell him about it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]His first reaction was to say no, King said. "Then Troy said, 'He'll give us a bunch of money.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King said he needed money and a place to stay because he was being evicted from his apartment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Before going outside to talk to Caradori, King said, Boner spent about five minutes briefing him on the basics of the allegations.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He told me to mention Alan Baer, the Twin Towers apartment and Larry King, a big black guy," King said. "He said, 'Be sure you mention their names a lot.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Caradori drove Boner and King to Lincoln in his van, King said, discussing the allegations with him on the way.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He said he knew what these people did to me," King recounted. "He asked me, 'Did you know you can sue them for what they did? These people have a lot of money. You could probably settle out of court and get a lot of money out of them.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'He Said Millions'[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moran: "Did he say how much money?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King: "He said millions."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King said Caradori led him through much of his videotaped statement. "He'd mostly talk about a date and place and I'd make up a story to go with it," King said. "At first, I'd give a date, and he would say, 'Are you sure?' I'd let him say the date and I'd go, 'Yeah, yeah, that was it.'[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"At one point, he stopped the tape and said, 'There's got to be more parties,' " King said. "I asked why and he said, 'Because Alisha Owen's got 15 more parties than you.' I said there weren't any more parties. He asked, 'Are you sure?' and I said, 'Maybe I forgot some, there were so many.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]King said Caradori never stopped him to ask whether he was lying - in spite of wide disparities in his and Miss Owen's stories.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Later in December 1989, Caradori pulled King aside at a Christmas party at the investigator's offices and told him he had to make another videotape, King said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He said Caradori told him that "Alisha's got at least 20 more parties than you, and I want to know about them."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Twin Towers Testimony[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I made up a couple more parties," he said. "Then I said, 'Tell her that's it, not to make up no more parties.' "[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In testimony Monday and Tuesday, Boner discussed the Twin Towers apartment building. Five of the eight perjury charges against Miss Owen deal with her allegations of sex and drug parties there. She told the grand jury that parties took place in the apartments of Lawrence E. King Jr. and Alfred E. "Alfie" Allen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moran has presented evidence intended to prove that no such parties took place at the Twin Towers in 1983 and 1984. Allen testified that he never had an apartment there, and one of the building's owners said neither Allen nor King had a Twin Towers apartment during that period.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Boner and Danny King have testified that they never attended any Twin Towers parties.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moran has said the Twin Towers, at 30th and Farnam Streets, was designated as the parties' setting because Boner had some knowledge about the building and told Miss Owen and Danny King about it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Boner testified Monday that he had sex for money with Baer in Baer's second-floor Twin Towers apartment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2 Pandering Charges[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Baer was indicted on two pandering charges by the grand jury and was fined $500 after pleading no contest in April to a reduced charge of aiding and abetting prostitution.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The charges involved only sex acts between consenting adults, not minors, special prosecutor Greg Schatz said. Boner's name did not figure in those charges.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Boner testified that the last time he saw Baer was in 1985 when, he said, he took a trip to Des Moines with him, stole his wallet containing $2,500 and returned to Omaha on his own.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Boner also testified that Miss Owen might have heard Alfie Allen's name because, he said, Allen once attended a party at Miss Owen's residence or perhaps because Allen formerly worked at an Old Market record store."[/FONT]
 
We also know that Troy Boner called Karen Caradori after Gary's death and was weeping-completely out of control. He apologized repeatedly for recanting his testimony, saying he was threatened to basically "lie or die." He was so terrified that he changed his story and said he made the whole thing up. Of course, now he's dead so he can't be questioned further.

The only two who did not recant were Alicia Owen and Paul Bonacci....but they have suffered plenty for sticking by their story. Neither have gained anything for telling the truth.....and Bonacci hasn't received a penny from his million dollar judgement against Larry King (most all of which, if received, was going to a child abuse charity).
 
shefner said:
We also know that Troy Boner called Karen Caradori after Gary's death and was weeping-completely out of control. He apologized repeatedly for recanting his testimony, saying he was threatened to basically "lie or die." He was so terrified that he changed his story and said he made the whole thing up. Of course, now he's dead so he can't be questioned further.

The only two who did not recant were Alicia Owen and Paul Bonacci....but they have suffered plenty for sticking by their story. Neither have gained anything for telling the truth.....and Bonacci hasn't received a penny from his million dollar judgement against Larry King (most all of which, if received, was going to a child abuse charity).
Click to expand...

Funny that no-one ever mentions the lawsuits, filed by John DeCamp, that were dismissed. Such as this one, through which he attempted to gain
$110 million:
http://franklincase.org/2-8-91.htm

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The lawsuit filed in federal district court in Lincoln demands that 16 defendants - individuals, public bodies, companies and non-profit institutions - pay alleged damages totaling $110 million plus an unspecified amount of punitive damages."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"DeCamp, a former state senator and a lobbyist, was criticized - but not indicted - by the Franklin grand jury for issuing a memo in early 1990 naming five persons as suspected "central figures" in a child abuse investigation. The grand jury said DeCamp issued the memo "for personal political gain and possible revenge for past actions alleged against him."[/FONT]
 
The Franklin Grand Jury? Ummmm....in my opinion, their credibility is questionable.

This is one area where I'm afraid we must agree to disagree....
 
shefner said:
The Franklin Grand Jury? Ummmm....in my opinion, their credibility is questionable.

This is one area where I'm afraid we must agree to disagree....
Click to expand...

I think their credibility is impeccable, so we can agree to disagree about that. Nevertheless, it is a matter of public record that Danny King testified that he, Alisha Owens and Paul Bonacci were promised that if they told wild stories about prominent Nebraskans sexually abusing children they would be rewarded with million-dollar lawsuits. It is a matter of public record that John DeCamp subsequently filed a $110 million lawsuit against prominent Nebraskans based on those lies, based on their original perjured testimony.
 
As for Troy Boner and his recantations of his recantations of his recantations...he was a heroin addict, a prostitute and a petty theif. For a month's supply of heroin he probably would have been willing to say that his own grandmother was Adolph Hitler.
 
Now who's attacking the victims?
 
Read this article about Gary Caradori and his suspicious death....
Pay close attention to the statements by State Senator Loran Schmit and State Senator Jerry Warner.

http://www.franklincase.org/7-12-90.htm

Sorry, don't mean to be off-topic, but since many feel that the Franklin Case and the Gosch Case are linked, this may provide some interesting information about the chief investigator of the Franklin Legislative Committee.

Those individuals who feel some very important people (some of whom were perpertrators) were trying to silence the witnesses and destroy the trail of evidence in this case are not all kooks.
 
shefner said:
Read this article about Gary Caradori and his suspicious death....
Pay close attention to the statements by State Senator Loran Schmit and State Senator Jerry Warner.

http://www.franklincase.org/7-12-90.htm

Sorry, don't mean to be off-topic, but since many feel that the Franklin Case and the Gosch Case are linked, this may provide some interesting information about the chief investigator of the Franklin Legislative Committee.

Those individuals who feel some very important people (some of whom were perpertrators) were trying to silence the witnesses and destroy the trail of evidence in this case are not all kooks.
Click to expand...

It seems odd that if Gary Caradori was in so much fear for his life then why didn't he take the necessary precautions to keep himself out of harms way? What did the investigation ever prove the cause was for the plane to crash? I remember when this happened but don't remember what they thought caused it.
 
Teresa Larson said:
It seems odd that if Gary Caradori was in so much fear for his life then why didn't he take the necessary precautions to keep himself out of harms way? What did the investigation ever prove the cause was for the plane to crash? I remember when this happened but don't remember what they thought caused it.
Click to expand...

Maybe he did think he was taking the necessary safety precautions when he decided to fly his own plane home.
 
shefner said:
Now who's attacking the victims?
Click to expand...

Who is the victim being attacked? Please explain.

If you are referring to Troy, wasn't he an accomplice in kidnapping, abusing the children....maybe I misunderstood?
 
shefner said:
Read this article about Gary Caradori and his suspicious death....
Pay close attention to the statements by State Senator Loran Schmit and State Senator Jerry Warner.

http://www.franklincase.org/7-12-90.htm

Sorry, don't mean to be off-topic, but since many feel that the Franklin Case and the Gosch Case are linked, this may provide some interesting information about the chief investigator of the Franklin Legislative Committee.

Those individuals who feel some very important people (some of whom were perpertrators) were trying to silence the witnesses and destroy the trail of evidence in this case are not all kooks.
Click to expand...

I don't feel you're "off-topic" here.
The death of Gary Caradori and his son was a terrible tragedy.
Foremost, because their families, friends and co-workers had to suffer such a tragic loss.
Also, however, because Caradori's very sudden demise created a similar kind of knowledge gap to what was created when Jack Ruby shot Oswald and forever prevented "the horse's mouth" from disclosing his true motivations & associations. Caradori's death created a knowledge gap from which endless speculations could and would spring, as to "what he really knew/possessed". That compounds the essential, sad tradedy of two human beings having their lives cut short.

A federal investigation into the crash eventually concluded that there was no foul play involved.
 
christine2448 said:
Who is the victim being attacked? Please explain.

If you are referring to Troy, wasn't he an accomplice in kidnapping, abusing the children....maybe I misunderstood?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe you've misunderstood. I speculated, earlier in this thread, that Troy Boner might have been involved in criminal acts of that nature along with Paul Bonacci. That is only speculation, however.

Troy Boner's "victim" status is controversial. If everything that Bonacci claimed (and was convicted of perjury for claiming), and everything that Boner alleged to Gary Caradori (which he later repudiated and stated was a pack of lies, under testimony before the Grand Jury) is actually true - then Troy Boner was victimized by a satanic mind-controlling international child prostitution and human trafficking ring.

On the other hand...
 
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