IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #35

[Stormy21]

Do you speak a foreign language? Understanding "I'm going to call the police" is not quite the same as understanding words/terms like "prosecution" "abscond" "omission" "ex parte" "appellant" etc etc etc. I could "easily" learn some basic stuff in another language, if I lived there a few years, I could graduate to having actual conversations with people and make friends. But then throw me into a foreign court with complicated legal jargon? No way.

Local people seemed to have no problem communicating with the guy.

 

[Stormy21]

I keep hearing this theory, what I don't understand about it is the suspected SA motivation. If SA was the goal, would he assault her after hitting her with the car? She'd be unconscious I'd imagine. I think part of the "thrill" of a SA is the fight.

I don't know, I just feel like hitting her with the car is too easy for the hunting game he may have been playing. Hey, I could be way out in the weeds with this thought tho.

He could have been enraged and hit the accelerator pedal. She gets hit and thus the head injury. He picks up an unconscious person and places her in the trunk.

Anyway the ME will be able to determine this.

 

[i'm someone]

This senseless murder has gotten me on edge, and I am only going to post one last thing because I still don't understand what is allowed to be discussed.
1. This person is probably a psychopath/sociopath. He probably has no more control or choice over it than any other predator. A lion needs to chase a gazelle, and will do it even if not hungry. We can't keep looking at human predators as being normal people with regular feelings who just decide one day to harm other people. It could happen if the person's brain experienced some kind of physiological change. Most of the people who are lacking basic feelings and can't resist pursuing and harming others were born that way. This person had no more choice over his behavior than the lion chasing the gazelle.

Does that idea feel uncomfortable and scary? Yes, because we want to believe everyone can be rehabbed, that this can be prevented, that you can prepare yourself and avoid it.

Does this mean I think he therefor has an excuse for his behavior and should be able to use this as a defense? No way in heck. The courts, the laboratories that process evidence, the time the LE spends on policing, the prisons all need to be used to find, process and keep this kind of person out of society. Either until they die, or until there is a treatment that can "fix" whatever is wrong with them permanently.

And these predators are all unique individuals, from all corners of the earth. I include in this definition anyone who has a compulsion, who has shown they can't stop themselves, who repeatedly return to dangerous behavior towards others. In other words, the serial predators and serial criminals who commit atrocities for their own physical desire. There is no reason to allow them to be in general society. Unfortunately, with the lack of understanding of the neurological and psychological makeup of each one, we currently would only be able to take them out of society once they show aberrant behavior.

But if all human beings everywhere would just become aware of the predatory personalities around them, and instead of allowing them access to our lives, and for sure not giving them celebrity status, the chances of what has happened here would be greatly decreased. JMHO, and I am signing off Mollie's discussion because I think she deserves to rest in peace. I just felt I had to say this on her thread because someone, somewhere, might think there is some value to what I am saying and be in a position to implement changes.

 

[Jabarn]

His defense attorney today didn't seem like he'd go with that at all (even though I personally would prefer that outcome), but in any case, doesn't the prosecution have to offer the deal? I find that idea rather unlikely if they believe they have plenty of evidence to convict him of 1st degree and get LWOP.

It will be interesting to see how the defense works out (some defense attorney has to do it, right?) My posts here will lesson and stop altogether on this thread now there is some sort closure.

Abby and Libby (a closed post here, now) needs the same type of attention. The circles of friends, and relooking at it, and how there were some (like Kevin Bacon degrees of separation) are important to consider. Not to distract from Mollie’s case, at all.

Thanks, sleuthers.

I think any attention is good attention. Everyone (most) was so kind and helpful throughout the posts here on Mollie’s thread, while keeping thoughts going, and attention going until there was a suspect. There is a consciousness among people where the more people are looking at it, the more attention is paid.

 

[know_what_i'm_sayin']

He could have been enraged and hit the accelerator pedal. She gets hit and thus the head injury. He picks up an unconscious person and places her in the trunk.

Anyway the ME will be able to determine this.

Absolutely possible, if that's what happened, I'd tend to think no SA occurred then. I somehow can't picture it the other way around.

 

[kkdj]

Sadly I think stats are 1 out of 10 actually tell/report assaults... I'm thinking more along the lines of date rapes and such. Too embarrassed to come forward, afraid people won't believe. I bet the church he's gotten away with stuff like that in the past.

I wonder if Mollie fought back and that's what really made him mad.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm assuming the court required a translator so he can't appeal his verdict using a language barrier as an excuse. They're covering all the bases. It's also probably safe to assume, with his limited education, he may not understand the legal terminology in the questions he's being asked. The judge and prosecution are taking no chances. Not sure why having interpreters is considered problematic by some.

bbm

I don't get it either.

I get the anger. I get the disgust at what the perp did. I get the desire to see him face justice and serve his sentence.

But I don't understand the idea of not giving him a fair trial. It's what we do in this country. We have fair trials for everyone who is charged. If he doesn't understand what is happening to him in court, that is not a fair trial. And, it's also grounds for his conviction to be overturned.

People really want that?

Every penny spent on the translator is worth it.

jmopinion

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Local people seemed to have no problem communicating with the guy.

Again, talking normally vs court talk is way different. Even many Native-English-speaking Americans don't understand legal terms fully (as I cringe at the memory of the Jessica Chambers jury being sent back 3 times and STILL not understanding what the word "unanimously" meant. smh.)

 

[agilbe]

The court will need to find jurors to sit who are not very familiar with this case. If it goes to trial, can we assume jurors will be sequestered?

I think that boat may have sailed.

 

[Bravo]

I don't doubt for a minute he can get by with English day to day. In Court they are just ensuring he understands all. As it should be.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Charliegizmo49 - I don't know... I went my state's leading AG University- back when the name included "polytech' and it prided itself in its in state research and publications. There were extension services all over the state and test farms associated with the school all over the state. Maybe times have changed? I just really expected IA, with its widely recognized status at the leader in CORN production in the USA (note: not sweet corn - when it comes to sweet - be it corn, peaches or tea, in my opinion, GA takes the lead) to be a leading researcher and publisher for best farm practices.

And attorneys who "just represent the less fortunate or underdog" --- first this is not such a case.
An example of that would be a single mother with children who have been harmed by lead paint or lead in their water fighting a government agency or employer or landlord. Now she is an underdog.

Anyone who takes a client who is charged with a heinous crime like here is an entirely different set of circumstances and the client is no underdog!

And the way this attorney made sure to file his first brief announcing this case is a 'high profile' case is someone whom I view as suspect - he is either in it for the money, the exposure, some sort of quid pro quo, or stroking his own ego. ALL OF COURSE in my opinion.

I agree with what you said. And I have no sympathy for Rivera. Not a bit. I was just trying to explain what his environment might have been growing up. Waaaay back (good thing my mother first use the Internet). In 1955, I was born and raised in my great grandparents farm. They came to the USA in 1915 through Ellis island. I did my research and they signed into the resister of names. The house they had in the 50s had no running water until about 1957. Then only cold. Water was heated in a tank on the side of the big wood stove in the kitchen. Baths in a galvanized tub. No bathroom but an outhouse and a pot in the winter. You know the rest. But we were very poor. Fortunately for me I remember it and a dollar means a lot to me. All of us worked hard and saved out way out of poverty.

Sometimes we all forget that most of our recent ancestors had very little when they migrated here. Most of us are immigrants or direct
Descendants of immigrants. Mine from Romania.

But even knowing all the poverty there is absolutely nothing with Rivera that can explain murdering MT. NOTHING. She did nothing to him. It may well come out that she knew of him.

As many of these cases as I’ve read and watched I could never justify hurting another human being. I believe I could readily defend myself or my family and live with consequences but never deliberately set out to kill. And I believe Rivera did exactly that. He stalked, and hunted Mollie down and after he was done, he killed her.

 

[DizzyB]

Anybody have any insight as to when we will know more about what may have happened that night? Is any info released by the ME, or the DA, or do we know by the specific charges? Do we hear nothing until trial?

 

[sbsuzilight]

Mr Richard claimed it in court papers and used quotes extracted from a media story from CR's employer framed as though they agreed with his assertion. The employers held their own PC and set the record straight and the truth was CR lied to the employer and our SS bureau didn't help properly vet the guy. The employer made it clear the misled them and was not here legally, they were heartbroken to learn about Mollie's disappearance and shocked anyone they employed was involved! There was anguish on the faces of the employers.

Yes, it looked like they were in total shock. One of the reporters asked how this would affect their business. The answer was, "We don't know yet."

 

[Stormy21]

It will be interesting to see how the defense works out (some defense attorney has to do it, right?) My posts here will lesson and stop altogether on this thread now there is some sort closure.

Abby and Libby (a closed post here, now) needs the same type of attention. The circles of friends, and relooking at it, and how there were some (like Kevin Bacon degrees of separation) are important to consider. Not to distract from Mollie’s case, at all.

Thanks, sleuthers.

I think any attention is good attention. Everyone was so kind and helpful, while keeping thoughts going, and attention going up until there was a suspect.

Seems to me upon examining the evidence an ethical attorney might try a plea bargain (although I don't know what. Depends on how the ME constructs the scene). But I could see a story of he got angry and hit the accelerator and by accident..... That would plead down from Murder 1.

If the evidence is so incriminating, a defense attorney can simply make sure wtinesses are truthful then rest without calling any of his own witnesses (like in the Manafort trial).

 

[Alethea]

I'm assuming the court required a translator so he can't appeal his verdict using a language barrier as an excuse. They're covering all the bases. It's also probably safe to assume, with his limited education, he may not understand the legal terminology in the questions he's being asked. The judge and prosecution are taking no chances. Not sure why having interpreters is considered problematic by some.

Bingo. If there's any question of his language skills, they will give him a translator. The court also wants him to respond in the language he feels most comfortable in so there's no later claim that he was misinterpreted. Neither side wants to spend a year trying a case and have it thrown out on appeal because he claims he didn't understand what was going on.

 

[Eclipse]

There are like 20 people running for Iowa State Supreme Court. Judicial elections can be something of a clown show. If he knows he doesn't have a chance to win, he probably figures this will give him publicity to build up his practice.

Despite the attorney's reported experience, he struck me as amateurish. He said to the judge he would appeal her ruling "whatever it was" before she even ruled. That's extremely disrespectful, and something you learn not to do your first day as a lawyer. You are supposed to be extremely respectful and deferential, even if you know you are going to appeal the judge's decision. He also didn't cover his mic when talking to his client, which breached his client's attorney-client privilege. I would have taken the mic off and asked to speak to my client outside. These are minor things but a good attorney would not have made these mistakes - particularly knowing the world is watching.

Interesting information.

 

[feralwriter]

I think that boat may have sailed.

Sailed straight off an old flat-world map. Lets hope.

 

[Veracity]

It sickens me that someone is paying for him to have a translator - in addition to the one assigned, and a lawyer. Mollie's family could not have likely hired such good representation if they had to pay for this trial.

One translator is from the court - IA taxpayers are paying for her. The other one who was between attorney and CR could have been an attorney in one of his offices, a paralegal who speaks Spanish, or an interpreter he hired to assist him.

Anyone know - she was not identified by the Magistrate Judge.

 

[Bravo]

Potential Jurors can be familiar with a case. What is important is are they willing to put aside what they have heard/read. Base their verdict on what has been presented in Court.

 

[Stormy21]

Absolutely possible, if that's what happened, I'd tend to think no SA occurred then. I somehow can't picture it the other way around.

Exactly! Yes.

Key point. That is not out of the realm of possibility. Let's see where the evidence leads the investigation.