IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[kpm]

I know, that quote has really weighed on me, as well. I wish I knew more about arrest affidavits, because the cornfield not being listed on the homicide arrest warrant really bothers me. I'm curious if maybe the fatal injuries were inflicted at the 1900 block of 385th Ave., but she didn't actually die from those injuries until she was in the trunk or the cornfield. That would explain the 'kidnapping' comment, since she was still alive when she was put in the trunk. But then it also explains the location of the murder as 385th. I just don't know.

Question: If somebody stabs someone on a street, but that person is taken to the hospital where they eventually die from that injury, wouldn't the arrest affidavit list the street as location, not the hospital, where death actually occurred?

I think you might see

Jane Doe stabbed on 123 street and subsequently died of her injuries at the hospital

Or

Jane Doe fatally stabbed on 123 street, victim transported to hospital where she was pronounced dead

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I remember in the Holly Bobo case her blood was found in the carport when Zach Adams kidnapped her from her home. I always felt he pushed a knife into her side causing blood to be let at the abduction location.

He did not mortally wound her at that time but imo he instilled such fear she was compliant and gave into his demands to go with him.

I think something similar could have happened to Mollie. I do believe he put her in the trunk but at a later time on the way to discard her body.

If he whipped out his knife and put it to her throat or into her ribs causing blood from the nonfatal injury he may have gained control even shoving her inside his vehicle. He would tell her if she fought him he would kll her right there. She would already be aware there was no one around to help her.

While we like to believe victims in this dangerous situations will fight trying to get away but we often see cases where that just wasn't the case. Many of the victims may have thought if they were compliant they could reason with their abductors into finally letting them go. Imo none of them knew the monsters before them were cold as stone and wouldn't show any mercy or compassion..

Imo

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, I think there are other crimes

I’m sure LE, now that they have his prints and dna, have run a search

Near by towns and cities where his relatives live are prime areas for him, I don’t think he ventured far from home base

I absolutely agree, and I’m sure LE is looking at all of these things.

 

[TL4S]

I think you might see

Jane Doe stabbed on 123 street and subsequently died of her injuries at the hospital

Or

Jane Doe fatally stabbed on 123 street, victim transported to hospital where she was pronounced dead

It very well might. I haven't seen enough affidavits to know. It has lines for: Location Type, Literal Description, and Address. If it was an affidavit for 'kidnapping', etc., I could understand the 385th location used. But a homicide affidavit?

 

[MassGuy]

And IF CR had planned this, I'd imagine a dairy farm would have boundless supply of plastic tarp, wrap from hay bales, large buckets, etc. IF he planned it, those kinds of things placed in the trunk would have prevented a lot of the blood mess. Then he just had to burn, hose off, or discreetly throw out the plastic used.

Yeah. My thinking is that he had thought about this, fantasized about it, but took advantage of the opportunity when he saw it.
I don’t think there was any great deal of thought put into the details beforehand. And you’re right, he could have committed a far more effective crime had he taken the steps you suggested.

 

[kpm]

I think he is just expressing his amazement that it happened so fast, not implying she was held somewhere (except maybe the trunk)

Lol, living with a cop for over 25 years, I’ve learned they usually choose their words very carefully

I’m also told not to interpret what is said, lol, because I tend to read into things too much!

 

[TL4S]

Yeah. My thinking is that he had thought about this, fantasized about it, but took advantage of the opportunity when he saw it.
I don’t think there was any great deal of thought put into the details beforehand. And you’re right, he could have committed a far more effective crime had he taken the steps you suggested.

Yeah, I'm not convinced he processed things ahead of time enough to have taken those steps, either. It's that darn arrest affidavit...has my mind turned to mush!

 

[TL4S]

While we like to believe victims in this dangerous situations will fight trying to get away but we often see cases where that just wasn't the case. Many of the victims may have thought if they were compliant they could reason with their abductors into finally letting them go. Imo none of them knew the monsters before them were cold as stone and wouldn't show any mercy or compassion..

Yes, I feel it is unfair at this point to assume anything about how Mollie handled the situation. She may have fought, she may have complied out of fear, she may have been unconscious or incapacitated within 2 seconds of the initial attack.

 

[kpm]

Yeah, I'm not convinced he processed things ahead of time enough to have taken those steps, either. It's that darn arrest affidavit...has my mind turned to mush!

At the point they made the arrest record they could only use the facts that CR presented to them and any data they had acquired

Place he abducted her

Route he took

Place of disposal

We don’t know what he told them about 1900 block of 385th or what her Fitbit data recorded

From his account, even though he was blocked out, she was transported to the cornfield in his trunk, presumably with a head injury or dead.

They have to piece it together now, the facts they supplied to get the warrant are not all the facts of the case, just enough to secure a warrant.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know, that quote has really weighed on me, as well. I wish I knew more about arrest affidavits, because the cornfield not being listed on the homicide arrest warrant really bothers me. I'm curious if maybe the fatal injuries were inflicted at the 1900 block of 385th Ave., but she didn't actually die from those injuries until she was in the trunk or the cornfield. That would explain the 'kidnapping' comment, since she was still alive when she was put in the trunk. But then it also explains the location of the murder as 385th. I just don't know.

Question: If somebody stabs someone on a street, but that person is taken to the hospital where they eventually die from that injury, wouldn't the arrest affidavit list the street as location, not the hospital, where death actually occurred?

The affidavit is confusing because it makes it sound like they believe the assault and murder all took place between 7:45 and 8:28. But some have said that it's possible that she may have been assaulted, put in the trunk, then driven to the cornfield within that time. I believe she was moved to the cornfield alive, but the murder occurred on that dirt road that goes into the cornfield, then he carried her body further in to hide it. Imo Not sure about the last question, but that's why it seems like the assault and murder all took place in one location, when you go by what the affidavit says. It's just hard to imagine taking that risk in an area that isn't as secluded, and for 45 minutes.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And IF CR had planned this, I'd imagine a dairy farm would have boundless supply of plastic tarp, wrap from hay bales, large buckets, etc. IF he planned it, those kinds of things placed in the trunk would have prevented a lot of the blood mess. Then he just had to burn, hose off, or discreetly throw out the plastic used.

You would think so but time after time we see defendants who do premediated murders who were rather stupid in the planning and trying to cover it up stages. This has happened to doctors ...rocket scientist.. lawyers and others supposedly with a higher intelligence level.

Imo we tend to give too much critical thinking abilities to premeditated murderers including CR.

Many times the reason they are caught was due to their own stupidity. Imo they do not take a look at the overall view but hone in more about carrying out their plan to abduct..rape..and murder.

Jmo

 

[gillglock]

I absolutely agree, and I’m sure LE is looking at all of these things.

I read somewhere that crime labs are years backed up with processing DNA and rape kits (hate that term). So it is possible they do not find any matches for a long time.

 

[MsBetsy]

Lol, living with a cop for over 25 years, I’ve learned they usually choose their words very carefully

I’m also told not to interpret what is said, lol, because I tend to read into things too much!

That's exactly the reason why the wording in the affidavit is so confusing to me. It implies the entire assault and murder took place within that timeframe of 43 minutes. They said it for a reason.

 

[MsBetsy]

You would think so but time after time we see defendants who do premediated murders who were rather stupid in the planning and trying to cover it up stages. This has happened to doctors ...rocket scientist.. lawyers and others supposedly with a higher intelligence level.

Imo we tend to give too much critical thinking abilities to premeditated murderers including CR.

Many times the reason they are caught was due to their own stupidity. Imo they do not take a look at the overall view but hone in more about carrying out their plan to murder.

Jmo

That would certainly explain his not turning off the phone!

 

[kpm]

You would think so but time after time we see defendants who do premediated murders who were rather stupid in the planning and trying to cover it up stages. This has happened to doctors ...rocket scientist.. lawyers and others supposedly with a higher intelligence level.

Imo we tend to give too much critical thinking abilities to premeditated murderers including CR.

Many times the reason they are caught was due to their own stupidity. Imo they do not take a look at the overall view but hone in more about carrying out their plan to murder.

Jmo

And we all have to remember, premeditation doesn’t have to mean planning it all out, it could simply mean following her or seeing her running and getting the urge to assault her, it can happen in seconds.

I’m not sure if it stated in the warrant, but the cops have stated he claims “he was just drawn to her” that night.

 

[MassGuy]

I read somewhere that crime labs are years backed up with processing DNA and rape kits (hate that term). So it is possible they do not find any matches for a long time.

That’s true. His DNA would have been entered into CODIS by now, but the samples from past victims could still be in a freezer.

 

[MsBetsy]

At the point they made the arrest record they could only use the facts that CR presented to them and any data they had acquired

Place he abducted her

Route he took

Place of disposal

We don’t know what he told them about 1900 block of 385th or what her Fitbit data recorded

From his account, even though he was blocked out, she was transported to the cornfield in his trunk, presumably with a head injury or dead.

They have to piece it together now, the facts they supplied to get the warrant are not all the facts of the case, just enough to secure a warrant.

I had thought that timeframe was based heavily on the fit bit data, as well as the camera evidence, and includes what he told them. That is what makes it so confusing to me.

 

[kpm]

I had thought that timeframe was based heavily on the fit bit data, as well as the camera evidence, and includes what he told them. That is what makes it so confusing to me.

It’s confusing to us because we can’t see all the details, we are trying to piece it together

Fitbit data is sketchy at best and is new to them

Numerous things could have occurred with it that would invalidate the data it collected

Maybe it was broken in a scuffle at 8:28 or taken off?

Only her clothes were reported in the warrant, were the other things there or missing?

They pulled him into questioning on the 20th and the warrant was drafted the 21st, they have hours of statements from him we don’t even know about.

 

[Bravo]

No word that I have seen on the other items being found.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, I feel it is unfair at this point to assume anything about how Mollie handled the situation. She may have fought, she may have complied out of fear, she may have been unconscious or incapacitated within 2 seconds of the initial attack.

I agree somewhat. That is why I stressed this was my own opinion and what I think.

I only based my opinions on following abduction..rape and murder cases like this one for almost 4 decades.

My opinion could certainly be innocorrect but it is not a wild theory for it has happened countless time to other victims..imo.