IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #42

[rebel123]

Especially when labeling him as a sociopath or having a personality disorder. Unless we are clinical psychologists (and I’m married to one but still gives me no expertise to diagnose) then we should be careful with that.

If it goes to Trial; the defence will get a whole lot of experts to produce a whole lot of reports.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think we all need to remember the IMO, JMO,MOO when discussing opinions. I was catching up on this thread this morning at 4am and people are throwing out “he did this” and “he is this or that”. We don’t know what he did, who he is or what he is....we have seen him on TV for about 20 minutes. While I don’t defend him in any way, the facts have to speak for themselves. I am sure he killed her as LE was because they filed the warrant based on his story. But to try an diagnose him or stating things as fact that are not fact doesn’t make them fact. Rant over....

I dont think anyone is trying to diagnose him, rather just trying to figure out what type of killer LE is dealing with, just like LE is doing! After all, that's what we are here for, amateurs trying to figure out crimes! There is nothing wrong in attempting to analyze based on what is known. But I do agree once in a while there are some pretty wild speculations and very creative stories about things that aren't relevant such as digging into someone's background who is not involved, and taking everything reported in something like the DM as fact. It gets very hard to weed out what is accurate and what is not. Jmo

 

[Jeng1810]

I think if women reported every time we felt harassed, persued, or offended by an unwanted male who doesn't seem to know when to stop ( or be able to tell that we're not interested) there would be a line outside the police station every day. In my experience, police don't want to write up a police report unless there was a direct, specific threat of violence. Jmo

The typically won’t unless there is an actual threat as it should be....imagine like you said everyone reporting legitimate, multiple attempts to date someone. Unless it escalated to some sort of perceived danger most people will not report. IMO this is exactly the reason he has no history of “perceived threat” previously. He didn’t escalate to that level until that day IMO. And we will likely never know the reason why that day made the difference for him.

 

[Bravo]

Im not sure anyone is giving him the benefit of the doubt, unless you are referring to making excuses that this was just a scared, lost individual who just suddenly snapped. I don't believe this is the case and certainly does not excuse his behavior in any way even if it was. Chasing her down is definitely not reflective of his desire to date her, I wouldn't even say maybe. I feel he acted deliberately, and people are just trying to put the pieces of the crime together by gaining a better understanding of the kind of killer he is. That is exactly what investigators do. Imo, I don't think there is anyone who is trying to make excuses for his behavior in any way at all!

Agree. We as humans seek to understand, to make sense of the evil act. The only person making excuses is the killer himself. IMO

 

[Jeng1810]

I dont think anyone is trying to diagnose him, rather just trying to figure out what type of killer LE is dealing with, just like LE is doing! After all, that's what we are here for, amateurs trying to figure out crimes! There is nothing wrong in attempting to analyze based on what is known. But I do agree once in a while there are some pretty wild speculations and very creative stories about things that aren't relevant such as digging into someone's background who is not involved, and taking everything reported in something like the DM as fact. It gets very hard to weed out what is accurate and what is not. Jmo

Adding IMO goes a long way. Without it rumors and innuendo start to feel like fact to others and it goes against what we do here at WS. IMO

 

[Jeng1810]

Especially when labeling him as a sociopath or having a personality disorder. Unless we are clinical psychologists (and I’m married to one but still gives me no expertise to diagnose) then we should be careful with that.

I know enough clinicians to know that they will not diagnose without a history or meeting the individual let alone base the “facts” on a TV presentation. We just can’t assume....”normal” people do crazy things all the time.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Agree. We as humans seek to understand, to make sense of the evil act. The only person making excuses is the killer himself. IMO

Since we’ve heard nothing from CR it’s really pretty speculative that even he is making excuses.

 

[MistyWaters]

Im not sure anyone is giving him the benefit of the doubt, unless you are referring to making excuses that this was just a scared, lost individual who just suddenly snapped. I don't believe this is the case and certainly does not excuse his behavior in any way even if it was. Chasing her down is definitely not reflective of his desire to date her, I wouldn't even say maybe. I feel he acted deliberately, and people are just trying to put the pieces of the crime together by gaining a better understanding of the kind of killer he is. That is exactly what investigators do. Imo, I don't think there is anyone who is trying to make excuses for his behavior in any way at all!

Whenever there’s a tragedy, some people view it objectively from a distance, others from a close-up emotional perspective.

Because we’ve very limited information, opinions are bound to differ and that’s okay.

Early on when Mollie was still missing, much the same, speculation here was all over the map. Immediately after LE arrested CR and held the press conference, those theories went out the window. Once LE releases more information, the same will occur, there will be additional facts to base opinions on.

 

[rebel123]

Before CR was arrested; there was a whole lot of finger pointing at WC, whose actually got convictions for 'stalking'. Jumping the gun isn't great; justice must run it's course.

 

[SteveP]

If it goes to Trial; the defence will get a whole lot of experts to produce a whole lot of reports.

...and they would be remiss if they didn't. But I would expect the prosecution to offer expert witnesses to offer their own opinions, and then it will become a contest of expert witnesses, and which to believe. JMO

 

[pamelado2]

No! Sorry I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying this particular murderer isn't a nice guy. He doesn't appear to have any respect for human life. And I agree, He would not have done anything like that to his family. You are right, people do not start out as being evil. It is the combination of genetic predisposition and environmental factors that shape a human being. Imo

But no murderer is a 'nice guy' when they murder, that doesn't mean that before he murdered he wasn't nice or at least wasn't perceived as nice.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have sympathy for him nor do I feel there is any excuse for what he did but until this, as far as we know, the worst description of him by a few women was weird or creepy. Other than that, it was nice, a good father, etc. And that's the part that keeps me coming back to Websleuths. I think in my mind I'm always trying to figure it out - how did that person get to that point of no return? How could they? What influenced the deviant behavior that led to murder?

 

[Al Hoffman]

If this were the case I would expect his ex to maybe mention it.

It might have been her leaving that kindled his rage. Many times I have heard men in bars rage against their ex's and then all women in general.

Of course it is a chicken and egg argument. Did she leave because he was an abusive SOB, or did he develop into a SOB prowler because she left him? As I've heard said: "He can have any woman he pleases, the problem is that he can't please any". Did the one teenage girl who he could please breakup with him, and rebuffs from the attractive girls he wanted cause his desire to turn into anger over being turned down by these woman. And as far as this being a crime driven by sexual need, there appears to be at least one 50 y/o cougar, on the farm where he worked, who he could have had a dalliance with, once he had broken up with his baby's momma. The "girlfriend's oath" covers that. CR could have had his needs met, but he chose to go after MT, for whatever reason. And yeah, you're right, that is frightening.

 

[rebel123]

...and they would probably be remiss if they didn't. But I would expect the prosecution to offer expert witnesses to offer their own thoughts, and then it will become a contest of expert witnesses, and which to believe. JMO

Exactly right; they will have their own experts who will have a counter argument to the defence's expert; as you say they would be remiss if they didn't.

 

[Jeng1810]

Since we’ve heard nothing from CR it’s really pretty speculative that even he is making excuses.

I’m sure this will be unpopular but he could be telling a good amount of the truth. I remember a case (can’t remember details) of someone seeing a woman working in the yard and someone drove by and “wanted” her. He killed her husband and tried to SA and kill her. Who would think that was it but that’s all it was. I always say the “unhinged aren’t that unhinged until the stitches unravel”. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven't seen anyone say he planned this for years. I do believe that his behavior with Mollie was that of a predator.

I have a narcissist/ sociopath/psychopath (depending on what therapist we might ask) in my family circle. She looks 'normal', is viewed as a wonderful member of the family of Christ in her own circle, and was once called Wonder Woman because she's allegedly just endured so much. The truth is, she flies under the radar and is guilty of complicity in a death where she was viewed sympathetically by LE, she is spine-chillingly psychologically violent behind closed doors, she is an abuser of children, and she is a thief. And so much more. The chances of her ever getting caught are slim to none. I would describe her as a monster. The monster who lives next door who smiles and waves.

I don't know what brand of 'monster' this guy is but tragically, Mollie did before it was over. And I don't think he just suddenly became capable of this. People can be horribly depraved and lacking in empathy without appearing to be monstrous.

Thanks for your insight! Great post and I agree!

 

[TL4S]

JMO - The more I learn about Fitbits, the less I lean towards that being an accurate picture of MT's heart rate in the moment's of her abduction/murder.

Some studies have shown Fitbits can be inaccurate during high-intensity levels:

Taking the Pulse of Fitbit's Contested Heart Rate Monitors

Their accuracy also depends on fit and placement:

Fitbit Help - What should I know about my heart rate data?

IF she didn't die immediately and bled to death, it would have caused low blood pressure:

Hypovolemic Shock: Causes, Symptoms & Diagnosis

I'm not posting links for this because they are more anecdotal complaints, but a lot of people say their Fitbit's aren't accurate if they have low blood pressure.

MOO - This makes me wonder about the 8:28pm time being related to something other than the Fitbit.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Delete post

 

[Sleuth15]

Did MT typically run with or against traffic? Running with traffic with ear buds would leave her unaware of a car approaching from behind her, hence the element of surprise. Running against traffic you see cars coming and can be aware and prepared if the car stops or swerves

 

[MistyWaters]

Since we’ve heard nothing from CR it’s really pretty speculative that even he is making excuses.

I agree. The 20 or so lines written in the affidavid are obviously a very brief summary of what LE indicated were many hours of interviews. The purpose of that summary is merely a brief statement of facts to support the arrest warrant.

I noticed an example -
The affidavit says CR got mad when Mollie said “I’m going to call police”. That eludes to an picture of Mollie grasping at her phone ready to make the call and CR attacking to prevent her from doing so.

But when Rahn spoke with the media his recollect was that CR stated Mollie had said if he didn’t leave her alone, she would call police. That’s a indication that Mollie warned CR and it was his deliberate choice not to just back off (also significant to intent, premeditation of murder imo).

 

[Gardenista]

I saw the same thing. Very cold. No emotion. Not much in his eyes at all. I was surprised when some posters actually said he looked scared or " terrified" because the poor guy didn't understand what was going on!

In court and in old photos, he has dead eyes like many of the murderers we see here.