ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 55

[covid2020]

I have lived in accommodation similar to the victims. Just because there is a photo of them all smiling together does not mean they had much in common or mixed. They probably did not have much say as to who moved in to vacant rooms and may not at all times known who exactly belonged or did not belong on the premises. There may have been internal conflicts (annoyance at a barking dog, irritation at food getting delivered at all hours), so a masked man creeping around the house and other odd noises may be greeted with a 'not again' thought, not alarm.

 

[Cedars]

I've seen that too, and I didn't get that from reading the AA. I think it leads us to believe one of KG/MM were the targets (perhaps even both) but I don't think the AA clearly gives us evidence MM was target.

My opinion of sequence of events:

4am~ doordash for Xana

4:04am he is seen parking. Leads me to believe earliest he is in the house is closer to 4:05/06am.

He heads upstairs first.

When DM is awoken "around 4" thinking she hears Kaylee playing with dogs - it's actually the attack/murders of MM/KG happening.

BK heads down stairs somewhere around or after 4:12am (probably closer to 4:17) since we know Xana was still using TikTok up until this time.

IMO Xana was up and heard something which makes her leave her room or perhaps was even just going back and forth to the kitchen to discard her doordash trash.

She sees/hears BK coming down the stairs and this is when DM hears someone say "there's someone here"

I think BK felt he had to kill her now.

I think the biggest question mark for me is the killing of X/E. Im beginning to think Ethan was probably asleep during most of this.
BK sees Xana goes to attack her and she bolts back towards the room (hence the AA making it seem like her body was more likely in the door frame or right at entrance).

In the midst of that attack Ethan wakes up and the killer obviously focuses his attention on Ethan. Kills Ethan, but Xana is still alive "whimpering/crying"

This is when BK says "don't worry I'll help you" that DM hears. I think he probably "finished her off" at this point. (As gross as that was to type).

The murders/attack of X/E happen at the 4:17am mark of when the neighbors cameras pick up the noise closest to Xana's room.

Also the direction the killer comes from in order to be able to "walk past" DM is obviously more so from the direction of Xanas room and not the upstairs.

Then at 4:20 car is seen leaving.

Nothing in the AA shows me or hints to me who exactly between M/K were targets. But I'd be interested to hear actual opinions/evidence that lead people to believe MM target.

Thanks for creating a timeline..I think you are correct.

I want to point out that BK can't have been hanging around at the front of the house all those months, watching everybody go in and out, getting to know them all. He'd be too visible to all the neighbours as being there with no purpose.

As others must have pointed out, he must have gone around the corner to park, and lurked in the trees above the slope at the back of the house. Original DELETED: He would see directly into Maddies' room! He'd be very close to the deck where she would hang around with Kaylee and others. He would see down into the kitchen a bit, and see anyone hanging around the backyard.. But he couldn't see into any of the other rooms.

Not sure whether there's any information about whether he could get down the slope and into the backyard, to start moving around the outside of the house. But why would he bother, he'd risk being caught and charged with trespassing, whereas standing on the road is perfectly legal. I think he was there to spy on a pair of beautiful girls: perhaps Maddie wasn't always careful about her window blinds..

Perhaps he tried following them around, and tried to connect with one or the other, and was too shy, or was rebuffed. I can imagine someone becoming quite obsessed with them after spying for months. Perhaps he found out their names and spied on social media, but IMO that would be secondary, he'd want to see and touch them physically. As a 28 year old man, surely this would be about physical desire, not mental curiosity like watching episodes of Friends.

In some ways, I'm surprised he only went there 12 times in 4 months - that seems to me to show restraint. He wasn't going every night.

Deleted from original - my error

IMO, he broke in a kitchen window (which no one heard, it being at the back corner of the house), went up the stairs, perhaps to Kaylee's room but found only the dog (thus D hearing 'Kaylee playing with the dog), went to Maddie's room and killed them both (possibly Maddie was sleeping closest to the door and was attacked first). Then as he came downstairs, he encountered Xana, who had come out to see the commotion, IMO she ran back to her room to wake up Ethan.

I think he was so determined/terrified of being caught, he killed her and Ethan for that reason: so they couldn't call police until he'd gotten far away.

Then the dog started barking and his only focus was on getting out, back through the kitchen and out the sliding door, around to his car and 'peeling' down the street in panic.

In general, the knowledgeable profilers/forensic psychiatrists I've listened to talk about a person like that having violent fantasies. He would have visualized, over and over in his mind, a fantasy of killing beautiful, desireable women with a big knife. This would be primal, like everyone's fantasies are. It would be a highly detailed imagined experience. He wouldn't fantasize about killing anyone with a gun, in his case it
was evidently about specifically using a knife.

JMO

 

[AggieMeg]

Yes. I think you’ve got it EXACTLY right, and i think that’s the order in which the judge read the victims names yesterday.

Burglary, the sentence, do you understand

Murder of Madison Mogen, the sentence, do you understand

Murder of Kaylee Goncalves, the sentence, do you understand

Murder of Xana Kernodle, the sentence, do you understand

Murder of Ethan Chapin, the sentence, do you understand

The only thing I’d like to add/ask

our outdoor security cameras which were set up by a company are off by 4 mins. They aren’t ring cameras. They are are like little half domes - look like press lights on the soffits. We can watch footage on our tv screen or on our phone. they record a couple months of video.

Is it possible the ring camera was off a few minutes like ours?

I would think the police would notice that if they cross checked by testing a current video to make sure the time was correct. But maybe they didn’t do that, idk.

 

[Hope32]

That is a very important question with no answer. It is puzzling. But again, the absence of any action taken by roommate in immediate moment(s) following alleged sighting of BK is even stranger still. Perhaps it is absent because it is not relevant to the nature of the probable cause warrant. LE may also be withholding any action that she did take (even if no action) in relation to the investigation still being active.

That’s the best I got…

I can attest to hearing unexpected sounds in the middle of the night and being a younger female just freezing and trying not to breath to loud. You also have to remember that alcohol could be involved which slows cognition. Whatever reason was it would not matter because it was likely done. She is as much a victim as the others. We all like to think we will call 911 right away, but unless you are put in that situation with circumstances you will never know what will happen.

 

[Dotta]

"Legal experts have warned that the case against alleged Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger isn't a 'slam dunk' – despite authorities discovering his DNA at the scene.

The authorities have Kohberger's DNA on the knife sheath, but DNA evidence can be transferred from one person to another onto an object so that evidence is not open and shut for a conviction.

'Prosecutors don't have the murder weapon, they have a pretty vague description of the suspect from an eyewitness, and they lack a clear-cut motive."

Legal experts warn case against Idaho suspect isn't 'open and shut'

Ex-federal prosecutor Neama Rahmani believes that those defending Kohberger will not present an insanity defence because of his history as a 'scholar.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[WingsOverTX]

They did pose as garbage men - affidavit says it.

Where?

 

[kittythehare]

Albertson's is a chain grocery store (almost always has a small hardware section). They have pictures of him in the aisles, so they can probably theorize about what he bought.

I am myself of course extremely curious what was so important that he gets himself yet again on camera that night. I wonder what he was wearing at that point. Wouldn't LE mention if his clothes were not the dark clothes mentioned by D?

I am guessing he went right out to his car, with much less blood on him than many would think - but more than he anticipated and sped off. He had blood on the bottom of his foot just minutes before (the latent print outside D's door) but it wasn't a lot of blood. Still, it doesn't take much blood from his foot to leave victim DNA on the pedals and carpeting (especially) of the car. I wonder if his car carpet has bleach stains. I wonder if he bought bleach at Albertson's and other cleaning supplies.

To me, it looks like he had been thinking about this for a while, and had gone on many false starts on prior nights. For whatever reason, this was the night that everything clicked for him. But did he bring cleaning supplies? I wonder. Maybe he bought trash bags and cleaning supplies after the fact (in keeping with his general pattern of being much less smart than he thinks he is).

Bleach does not destroy DNA, although washing can move it around. It tends to be detectable on fiber for a long time, even after multiple hot water washings in a washing machine, with bleach.

Since he takes another circuitous route back to Moscow the next morning, I do wonder where he disposed of his clothes. Surely he disposed of his clothes, right?

Hydrogen Peroxide for bloodstains..
This is eerily like Brendt Christensen after he dismembered Ying ying Zhang, he went out and bought tons of bleach , which will not 'disappear' blood..
I'm getting so many flashbacks to that case, he was caught..

I'd really like to get my mitts on bK's study material, fave books, recent books, etc..
mostly from his Masters programme but recent reading might have served as accelerant?

At this stage I feel I'm being over generous in assuming transference has occurred.
That was not the case with Christensen.

But there are similarities.

BK did not hang around to take pleasure in his handiwork, feels like he was more task orientated..just do it and go..
Christensen had the weekend with YY's body.

 

[rescuemom]

Albertson's is a chain grocery store (almost always has a small hardware section). They have pictures of him in the aisles, so they can probably theorize about what he bought.

I am myself of course extremely curious what was so important that he gets himself yet again on camera that night. I wonder what he was wearing at that point. Wouldn't LE mention if his clothes were not the dark clothes mentioned by D?

I am guessing he went right out to his car, with much less blood on him than many would think - but more than he anticipated and sped off. He had blood on the bottom of his foot just minutes before (the latent print outside D's door) but it wasn't a lot of blood. Still, it doesn't take much blood from his foot to leave victim DNA on the pedals and carpeting (especially) of the car. I wonder if his car carpet has bleach stains. I wonder if he bought bleach at Albertson's and other cleaning supplies.

To me, it looks like he had been thinking about this for a while, and had gone on many false starts on prior nights. For whatever reason, this was the night that everything clicked for him. But did he bring cleaning supplies? I wonder. Maybe he bought trash bags and cleaning supplies after the fact (in keeping with his general pattern of being much less smart than he thinks he is).

Bleach does not destroy DNA, although washing can move it around. It tends to be detectable on fiber for a long time, even after multiple hot water washings in a washing machine, with bleach.

Since he takes another circuitous route back to Moscow the next morning, I do wonder where he disposed of his clothes. Surely he disposed of his clothes, right?

wasn't the trip to Albertsons mid-day between like 12:30pm-2pm???

 

[Atlmom]

IMO, BK returned to Moscow and drove past the crime scene the next morning out of curiosity to see what was going on and check to see if LE was on the scene yet. Kind of like murderers often attend victims’ memorial vigils…just to be nosey and to be a part of it. He returned in the morning during broad daylight. JMO, but I don’t think he would have walked around near the house or gone into the house and risked anyone seeing him. We don’t know if he even knew the sheath was missing at that moment in time. But, WOW, what a huge piece of evidence to leave behind.

 

[EJB123456]

The bag was open on the table in the kitchen which leads me to speculate that if the food was delivered to the front doorstep, it may have been cold and needed to be heated in the microwave before taking it to the bedroom or maybe the food item(s) needed to be split by something more than just fingers or maybe there wasn't enough napkins in the bag thereby leaving the empty bag in the kitchen. If none of that was in play, why not take the bag of food straight to the bedroom from the front doorstep.

The above is moo and assuming the bag was empty.

Candidly, we don't actually know that the door dashed food was the JITB. That could have been from another day (but at that late hour we can certainly assume it was JITB).

The pic we are all familiar with has the bag by the sink. But was it on the table first and then moved to the sink? Or vice versa? I know at one point the investigators had moved everything to the table for a reason that I can't remember now.

 

[tara83]

"Legal experts have warned that the case against alleged Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger isn't a 'slam dunk' – despite authorities discovering his DNA at the scene.

The authorities have Kohberger's DNA on the knife sheath, but DNA evidence can be transferred from one person to another onto an object so that evidence is not open and shut for a conviction.

'Prosecutors don't have the murder weapon, they have a pretty vague description of the suspect from an eyewitness, and they lack a clear-cut motive."

Legal experts warn case against Idaho suspect isn't 'open and shut'

Ex-federal prosecutor Neama Rahmani believes that those defending Kohberger will not present an insanity defence because of his history as a 'scholar.

www.dailymail.co.uk

They have no clue if LE has evidence from his apartment,car or computer.

 

[kaen]

Good question. Maybe a camera on a light pole. I guess the FBI would have to involve the HOA to do anything in that gated community. Glad whoever they involved kept their mouths shut.

ETA, also on FlightRadar24 replay, there was a plane doing continuous circles over their home.

Drones are really great at being small, quiet and incredibly effective. Makes me wonder if they used a drone given the area and distance from other homes.

 

[kittythehare]

And what else did he dispose of in these areas? His phone stopped tracking from approximately 5:36-8:30 pm between Clarkston, WA and Lewiston, ID on Nov 13 per the AA page 18 (updated document).

We don't know which is why we're trying to figure whether he had some kind of GPS tracking in his vehicle.

 

[rescuemom]

<modsnip - quoted post and response was removed>

It's possible they will consider a Chris Watts type deal where he pleads guilty but gets LWOP vs. death. It's easy to say he "looks forward to returning" to exonerate himself or whatever his PA lawyer said, but it's a lot harder now that there is a mountain of evidence and literal death staring him in the face.

Yep, you are the Defense Attorney! What's your defense??????

 

[arielilane]

Daily Mail continues to keep us informed.

Clean-up operation at Idaho murder house was stopped because suspect Bryan Kohberger asked for the crime scene to be preserved, new court papers reveal - as cops agree to lock up home​

Bryan Kohberger, 28, and his attorney, Anne Taylor, asked for the 1122 King Road property to remain sealed until February 1, the papers show.

Idaho murder suspect asked for clean-up at crime scene to be preserved

The 28-year-old and his attorney, Anne Taylor, Chief Public Defender for Kootenai County, asked for the 1122 King Road property to remain sealed until February 1.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[kittythehare]

A Knife Sheath, Phone Pings and Trash: The Hunt for a Killer in Idaho (Published 2023)

On the night four college students were killed, a roommate saw a man clad in black walk through the home. It took a cross-country investigation to find a suspect.

www.nytimes.com

 

[EJB123456]

"There's someone here": Surviving roommate heard Idaho murder victim and saw masked man in home, police affidavit says

The roommate, who slept on the same floor as one of the slain students, told police she saw a masked man walk past her on the night of the murders.

www.cbsnews.com

The surviving roommates, who are respectively identified in the affidavit as B.F. and D.M., slept in bedrooms on the first and second floors of the rental home. Kernodle's bedroom was located on the second floor, investigators said, while Goncalves and Mogen lived in two adjacent rooms on the third and uppermost floor. Goncalves and Mogen were both found in Goncalves' bedroom, as was the dog that Goncalves shared with her ex-boyfriend, Jack DuCoeur.


D.M., who also slept on the second floor, later told police in an interview that she opened her door three times after waking up at around 4 a.m. to what she thought "sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor," according to the affidavit.

"A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was Goncalves say something to the effect of 'there's someone here,'" the affidavit says. However, investigators pointed out that it could have been Kernodle's voice, since records from a forensic download of her cell phone "indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m."

D.M. told police that she "did not see anything" when she looked out of her bedroom for the first time after hearing the voice. When she opened her door a second time, after hearing what she believed was "crying coming from Kernodle's room," D.M. said that she heard a man's voice say "something to the effect of 'it's ok, I'm going to help you,'" according to the affidavit.

D.M. said that she heard crying again later and opened her door for the third time.

The roommate told police that the man walked past her while she stood at her bedroom doorway "in a 'frozen shock phase,'" and proceeded to exit the home through a sliding glass door at the back entrance. She told police that she locked herself inside of her room after seeing the masked individual.
-
<modsnip: victim unfriendly>

This article, IMO, has inaccurately reflected where the third story victims were found. I believe they have misinterpreted the affidavit.

 

[crhedBngr]

Does anybody have the link to the news video from the front of 1122 King Rd residense that had the white elantra drive buy in the back along walenta? It was before they announced the BOLA for the Elantra. Someone went back and noticed it in the background drive by. Looking for the date/time. Wonder if LE has video/cell tower trace of BK being in the area? The Probable Cause doc stated they have Cell Tower logs of BK being in the King Road vicinity between 9:12-9:21 on the 13th. Wonder if they were able to get the same camera video?

Bringing this forward again today, posted by @CeeMDubs.

This was shot on 11/14 by KTVB. White vehicle shows up at 1:51 and 3:04.

When I examined this, I slowed the play speed to .25.

JMVHO.

 

[Friday Fan]

Ah, but I don't see him as very capable of that. It seems clear that over at least 12 trips to Moscow from Pullman, at night, he had indeed memorized the neighborhood of the attack. It's almost funny that he turns his phone off just outside Pullman, but must turn it back on as he speeds away, southbound, from the U of ID area. He gets just south of Moscow on the only road heading south (can't get lost) but is going to be hitting some junctions and making turns.

So he turns his phone back on and likely uses Google maps (the data of which we'll surely see if this goes to trial).

He wasn't just going to a small town. He had a plan to leave the small town by an unusual and lengthy route (see map posted just above on this thread, can't be more than 1-2 pages back).

He has to make a turn at Genesee, get back on the highway and then find a route northward back to Pullman. Apparently, if he did try to memorize that, he failed, as he turns his phone back on. It's dark out there, in Idaho at night, and many small cross roads all along his route, many ways to get lost without a map or a very very good memory for maps (which most people do not have). Memorizing one address, yes, but he needed an escape route too.

Yeah..I agree. That trip back and small rural roads on very dark streets is an issue would like need a phone likely with GPS.


Unrelated, but Jason Landry crashed and disappeared after he got off route in a rural area. (Jason was likely impaired and his phone may fallen in the seat cracks) So, yeah those dark rural roads are hard to navigate.

 

[AgathaJessica]

i absolutely agree with you that he was working on changing his expressions/disguising himself to come across as more normal. I'm very intrigued by the report from his neighbor in the apartment complex in WA that she heard a woman's voice in his apartment exactly once. I keep asking myself who that might have been (a fellow PhD student?) and how significant that may have been for him. Because by all indications he lived a very solitary existence.

IMO , (wild) speculation
The woman's voice could have been a recording of some kind, not to mention the possibility of a Norman Bates scenario as far as the impersonation is concerned