ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 56

[Indiana Jones]

I was wondering why BK would drive his car ~2,500 miles cross country to spend a couple of weeks for Christmas in Pennsylvania. Only to turn around and drive back to WSU for spring semester. Could it be to dispose of evidence? Hence the gloves disposing garbage in the neighbors trash can in the wee hours of the morning?

Just a thought…hope LE finds a treasure trove in the trunk/trash.

 

[jepop]

But why then leave without the sheath? If he thought everyone was dead, why not at least go upstairs and rummage around for it? It seems that it was visible on the bed long after M had stopped moving. It was in plain sight.

Yeah, sorry I missed this! I think I said down thread that in my speculations I figure he was already melted down emotionally when he entered the house and was irrational. He wanted a quick in and out but things went downhill when X saw/heard him. He may have been looking in Kitchen/living room when spotted/heard. He may have even gone up the stairs and looked on them or even missed it in k/M rooms. These are just possibilities I am throwing out according to this scenario. In line with my premise that he was pretty melted down, after X and E he just left. That makes sense to me according to the premise. But this is speculation, based on evidence currently know from the PCA.

 

[vls12345]

Because they contain biohazards. They would have been thoroughly photographed before being removed now.

I don't understand your answer.

Are you saying that LE don't collect evidence because it contains biohazards? Are the mattresses suddenly less biohazardous now (since they are now being collected/removed)?

I assumed they had already been photographed. And even that samples may have been taken. But it seems like there could be additional forensic evidence that could be of use, yet the mattresses were left at the scene for almost two months and are now being removed (by whom/which group?) by people not wearing PPE, not enclosing the items in evidence bags, and loading things (somewhat haphazardly, imo) the open bed of a pickup truck. It seems odd to me.

MOO.

 

[lucidium]

Question about the dog.

So the dog was found shut in another bedroom is that correct? I was wondering how he got there? Was the dog sleeping in the bedroom with its owner in the bedroom with the door closed when the killer entered?
I forget which one of the two blond ladies dog it was.
Or was the dog roaming free around the house when the killer entered?

If the dog was roaming free when he first attacked I imagine he would have attacked the killer or started barking and alerted the other houseguests. Granted it was a party house so the dog was highly socialized and was use to lots of other people.

So did the killer before he attacked secure the dog beforehand? Or did he just go into the bedroom and start stabbing the two blond ladies with the dog right there unsecure?

Seems logistically hard to secure the dog or keep it quiet without alerting all the houseguests.

Thoughts?

Great news - there are entire threads devoted to this topic in the archives!

 

[Nova]

Exactly, especially for a trial like this one. I watched a criminal defense attorney get impanelled in a criminal case, though it was not a case involving lots of forensics. Judge just asked him, "Are you going to follow the dictates of your profession and obey the laws and rules of evidence?" Lawyer says, "Of course." Judge: "Go sit in the box."

Now in that case, it was an attempt on the part of the prosecution to get a jury impanelled quickly, as they knew the defendant was losing his nerve. They wanted to tell him that some really smart people were on the jury, like lawyers. So the new jury was sent home for the day; the lawyers all went to the judge's chambers and sure enough, the guy plead guilty to the lesser charge they had offered him and saved our county lots of expense (and the jurors a lot of time). The PD also wanted his client to get pushed to plea bargain.

I worked for corporate law firms for decades and was often challenged during voir dire (even though my particular job had nothing to do with knowing the law).

But I also served on a jury with a lawyer in a murder case. It just depends on what the prosecutor and defense attorney are looking for, and perhaps how confident the principals are that they can speak to knowledgable jurors.

 

[Cedars]

Yeah, sorry I missed this! I think I said down thread that in my speculations I figure he was already melted down emotionally when he entered the house and was irrational. He wanted a quick in and out but things went downhill when X saw/heard him. He may have been looking in Kitchen/living room when spotted/heard. He may have even gone up the stairs and looked on them or even missed it in k/M rooms. These are just possibilities I am throwing out according to this scenario. In line with my premise that he was pretty melted down, after X and E he just left. That makes sense to me according to the premise. But this is speculation, based on evidence currently know from the PCA.

I don't understand why it's necessary to create a complicated alternate scenario about him returning for the sheath.

 

[WildWest]

Thank you for this response! I agree with so much of this.

It was so fast, he didn't freak out after killing his first victim, he kept going and did it all so quickly. That is what surprises me. I wonder if he took some sort of drugs to enhance his physical and mental abilities that night.

I wonder the same, I also recall hearing about him taking night jogs and boxing, as well as some wondered of the use of a taser. I don't know what but something that night night allowed him to take 4 lives. Blows my mind he could do that.

 

[schooling]

Yes, I know the neighbor's house was on that side of the girl's residence. But a camera 50 feet away outside of the house picked up sound that DM couldn't hear although she could hear people talking (likely whispering) inside the house? Yeah, no. That still doesn't make sense, IMO.

Another member posted that she likely did hear both and it's just not spelled out in the PCA. That's certainly possible.

My neighbor's Ring camera isn't going to hear someone fall in my house or a dog barking in my house if I can't hear it and I'm actively listening at my bedroom door because I just heard my roommates say some really strange things about someone being in the house and someone being here to help.

Ironically, the sounds are what likely saved her life.

I think BK was certain that DM had heard all 4 murders and had likely already called the police. Him choosing to walk past her instead of killing her and the camera later catching him speeding up the road is evidence of that.

 

[Cedars]

With respect--and BTW I love your posts!--I don't agree that a plea bargain that results in life-without-parole is "wiggling out". Such a deal would protect us all in perpetuity, and that's about the best the justice system can provide.

Also would save the expense and uncertainty of a trial.

 

[drmrgrl]

Certainly could have, but the sounds D reported hearing weren’t very loud or strange so if I were X and E, I’d assume it was just one of the roommates that woke up to go to the bathroom, deal with a doggie accident, or get a drink of water or something. Saying “there’s someone here” gives off a more “there’s someone who’s not supposed to be here that’s here and I’m worried” vibe to me.

IMO that reminds me of the Lake Berryessa scene in the Zodiac movie. as CS is resting on BHs chest, she sees a man “there’s somebody here”. That’s a woman’s intuition!

 

[whowy]

chipwitley said (in part) ( Quote):

No matter how thoroughly he cleaned the car, there must be some DNA from the knife inside the car.
MOO just thinking out loud

MOO : It is unlikely he was able to thoroughly clean the car in the dark before embarking on his Nov 13th 9 am-ish return to the area of the crime. So, whatever clothing he was wearing for his visit to Albertsons may still retain trace evidence
( fibers, dog hair) from the crime scene. Hope those clothes have been secured by LE.

I'm guessing they're examining all his purchases and cross referencing with the girls.

I presume it's all tap payments there also.

Wondering: Would it be technologically possible for LE to compare phone location GPS-type data from BK's phone (or car) and the phones/ cars of each roommate & Ethan to determine when BK was either in the same location as, or following, each of them between August & Nov 13 ?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I recall the 'leak' from KG's Dad, that the coroner told him KG had no time to suffer, whereas XK was the one person who had defensive wounds.

I also think it's notable that the PCA itself challenges DM's belief that it was KG who made this remark, and interjects some facts to, politely, point to it actually being XK. IMO, that's because police believe it was XK, that the totality of evidence points to her as being the only one who saw the killer coming. I tend to assume police have much more information, experience and time working all this out than I have.

JMO

I took the PCA as leaving open the possibility that it was XK. I don't think it was definitive. I agree with whoever said that DM would recognize her roommates' voice. MOO

 

[jepop]

I don't understand why it's necessary to create a complicated alternate scenario about him returning for the sheath.

It is discussion based on the evidence presented in the PCA. Original post

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 56

Body/Survivor position during murders - please let me know if this needs to be updated. These are not my floorplans, previously posted with link a month ago.

www.websleuths.com

 

[sleuther123]

I think his survey last June, asking criminals to explain how they chose a target, and how they felt before, during and after the criminal offence, was what he viewed as the last step - asking criminals where they went wrong, how they got caught.

He moved to Pullman in August and his phone was at the address of the murders on Saturday, August 21 at 10:35 PM. The Greek restaurant where more than one of them worked closed at 10 p.m. that night. That could be when he chose his target. An hour later that same evening, he was pulled over in a routine stop where he provided his phone number.

Once a week for three months his phone was near 1122 King Road. He knew who was in which bedroom. He must have known that D.M. was on the second floor at the back of the house visible from the hill behind the house. That means the target was not the house, it was someone in the house. So far, we know that Xana and Madison were expected to be in their bedrooms that night. No one could predict that each would have a guest.

First murder. It's over the top sloppy, as police said. He left the knife sheath next to one of the victims, which quickly led to DNA identification of his father. His car was quickly identified, parked in front of his home. His new plates were quickly tied to his PA plates, which provided his phone number and phone records. Too many stupid mistakes - driving past CCTV 4 times on the night of the murders.

Yes.
Also, he got a new cell number in June. ???

 

[WildWest]

1967Yes, I know the neighbor's house was on that side of the girl's residence. But a camera 50 feet away outside of the house picked up sound that DM couldn't hear although she could hear people talking (likely whispering) inside the house? Yeah, no. That still doesn't make sense, IMO.

Another member posted that she likely did hear both and it's just not spelled out in the PCA. That's certainly possible.

My neighbor's Ring camera isn't going to hear someone fall in my house or a dog barking in my house if I can't hear it and I'm actively listening at my bedroom door because I just heard my roommates say some really strange things about someone being in the house and someone being here to help.

I thought so too, except I've never know a home that would leak anything much less a red liquid out a wall. Even in my 1967 trailer water would not run out. Also it was not a whisper but the AA said "whimper", regardless the whole thing is horrifying and unreal. I don't understand how though laid out in front of me.

 

[otto]

This is a plausible interpretation, but by no means the only one. I can think of several others.

The speculation on the order of the killings continues to baffle me. I don't see any way to answer that question definitively with currently available info, so the whole exercise is pointless in my opinion. Even if we could know, I'm not sure what more that tells us. That's just my weirdo self, I guess.

It's quite possible that she saw him as he walked down the stairs and walked out the slider patio door, or she saw him walk from Xana's bedroom.

Virtual Tour of 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho

Virtual Tour | In the early hours of November 13, 2022, a mass murder took pl... | 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho.

kuula.co

 

[drmrgrl]

To answer the killing 4 question. Just a random scenario and I'm not even saying I'm on board with this but its a thought. Perhaps he never planned to kill 4 maybe he went after 1 on the 3rd floor found 2 in bed at least one woke up and there is #2. X was just up due to Door Dash, now I don't know how fast she eats and falls asleep but lets say she was outside her room for whatever reason and he's coming down and catches her like a deer in headlights or he walks up behind her and stabbed her in a lung she probably couldn't talk, whimper possibly and most likely heading to her room to E and she's 3 and then there is E in the room and there is 4. Maybe he didn't see D I cannot explain why there was not 5. Again just throwing it out there have not really thought too much on it because this is all just kinda crazy from the jump.

IMO, I wonder what the 6th roommate thinks about the murders. I’d say she’s probably glad she moved out.

 

[AngTxGal]

IMO I believe kbsaid is there someone here? When bk was in room over bed. It fits scenario betterment

Gray Hughes Investigates does a great job of possible timeline from 3:29-4:20AM may look

Facts
3:29-4:20 white Elantra is seen on two cameras three times, leaves in a hurry
JnBox bag is in a picture in the kitchen near the sink with Xana on the bag
Camera is located at home NW of 1122 King Road and videos turn King to Queen Rd
Camera is located at home SE of 1122 King Road and videos parking lot of apartment to East

4AM DD delivers JnBox to Xana
4AM DM hears a noise that sounds like KG is playing with her dog

4AM BK car drives camera and front of home, but DD driver is delivering, so he passes it up
4:03 BK car turns around in parking lot of apartment, caught on camera and returns past front of home
4:05 BK car does 3 point turn and returns past home up to top of hill and parks

DM looks out of her room and hears someone say “Someone is hear.” She sees nobody.

4:12 X is on TikTok
4:15 DM hears crying and opens door to look out, “Its ok, I’m going to help you.”
4:17 Security camera from 57 ft away north west catches whimper and loud thud, dog barking repeatedly- possibly came from Xana’s room? Murphy?
DM opens her door and sees Man in black with mask walk toward her and to back sliding door (walking from X room toward DM room and turns to go toward kitchen and out sliding door)
4:20 Suspect vehicle departed the area in a hurry

JMO

 

[EyeSpyU]

Hard to say whether he was using drugs. He lost a lot of weight in high school and changed to vegan diet.

I'm curious whether there's any evidence of drug abuse. His phone was at the victim's house late at night and early in the morning, excluding one instance. He reportedly vacuums in the middle of the night. It sounds like he rarely slept. At the same time he attended a couple of Ph.D. classes and was T.A. for a criminal justice class. After the murders he was unshaven, talkative, tired looking.

I wonder if he deliberately went unshaven for a while afterwards if he had any scratches, even superficial ones on his face? I could be wrong and he just didn’t shave as he was so wired up afterwards but it’s a possibility IMO.

 

[lucidium]

I thought so too, except I've never know a home that would leak anything much less a red liquid out a wall. Even in my 1967 trailer water would not run out. Also it was not a whisper but the AA said "whimper", regardless the whole thing is horrifying and unreal. I don't understand how though laid out in front of me.

The idea that blood seeped through an exterior wall and ran down the side of the house was one of the more outlandish theories in my opinion.