ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[MikeHammer911]

I believe for this investigation, the position of the bodies is very important to understanding the sequence of events and criminal act. In addition to what I have said before, I believe that E was asleep at the relevant time of the attacks and X was in the living room eating. I also believe she was not "crying" but had been incapacitated, and these were the noises heard by DM. I believe DM heard X, and not E, due to the positioning of the bodies and the location of her room. Who knows if X had a view of E being attacked, but I find it hard to think she watched it or could still stand.

Side note: I believe there would have been very little time to send text messages to K or M, once the assault turned towards X in the living room, IMO, although there may be some texts that were relevant.

Your order is wrong. M and K was killed first i believe.

 

[stormsailor]

Are you thinking it's not realistic to pull off in 16 minutes?

Well 16 minutes minus the time to go from the car, into the house, kill 4 people, out of the house back to the car and drive away for someone untrained and in a fluid situation.

 

[esayer]

I haven't been commenting much, but I've been reading along. So thanks everyone for all the links and great information.

I've read through the PCA several times and have formed a bit of a different idea of what happened, including motive. Many people have commented how odd it is that a seemingly regular guy would commit a mass murder like this as his first crime. I agree. Not because I think he is a serial killer of some kind, but because it's possible his intent was not murder at all.

I'm coming to believe the intent was forcible rape and the intended target was M. I believe he knew where M's room was from prior surveillance. I believe he removed the knife from the sheath, which was looped on his belt and entered through the slider in the kitchen and went directly to M's room, finding her asleep. I believe he unbuckled his belt in preparation for a sexual attack at which time three things happened - (1) M awoke and fought back, (2) the sheath slipped off his undone belt, and (3) K heard the commotion and entered the room. At that point, he killed both of them.

I think his intent was to quickly exit the house the way he came, out the kitchen slider. Coming down the stairs he heard X moving around and saying "someone is here". Now he has a problem. Does he leave or does he dispatch a witness who may call 911 in the next few minutes? I believe he decided to kill X, not knowing E was there. I think he saw X as he rounded the corner and attacked her near the doorway or just inside the doorway of her room. Then he saw E and turned his attention to him as the bigger threat. I think X was still alive, injured, and crying. When he finishes with E he turns back to X telling her he will help her, but he finishes killing her instead.

Then he walks back down the hall, passing DM's room, and exits the way he came in through the kitchen slider. He showed no interest in DM's room or the two bedrooms on the first floor. I believe his focus was entirely on M's room on the third floor, he chose the most efficient route to get there, and did not expect K to be on the third floor at all. I think he thought he could rape (not kill) M on the third floor and then slip away.

I think that's why this crime seems so sloppy. He planned to commit a rape, in a college town, which is a fairly common occurrence and does not attract national attention and 50 FBI agents. He wasn't planning a mass murder; he was planning a rape and at most a local investigation by a local detective or two.

This is all my own opinion and my general sense of the case at this time.

Pretty big knife specifically meant to kill people, also how did he think he could just rape someone in a house full of people who were awake. minutes before? I believe he wanted to massacre everyone in the house, and Ethan surprised him.

 

[ktm44]

Could have picked up the knife at a gun show.

Or a pawn shop. I don’t think it has been mentioned if the sheath was new or showed use.

 

[Elley Mae]

Image here of BK’s belongings being removed, clear tote has box of surgical mask.

Suspected Idaho quadruple murderer Bryan Kohberger's office is searched

>

nybreaking.com

 

[cottonweaver]

Good point. Totally could be. I went to where they described Ethan and they don't mention a bed at all so it's hard to figure out whether he meant a single bed or the single bed in the room

Yes think you're both right

Always good to cross something off the list of options.

 

[thoughts101]

Your order is wrong. M and K was killed first i believe.

I was only talking about X and E in the post above. Otherwise I agree with you - M then K, based on the PCA.

 

[Anonymom]

Do we have any indication yet on how far out trial will be for this?

Far enough out that we should have well over 100 threads on Websleuths about this case by then!

 

[kittythehare]

I think this is incorrect, IMO:

MM first, KG second, X attacked, E third, X fourth. Read the PCA.

where exactly does it state order of deaths in the PCA?

 

[MindMeld]

Law enforcement is required to get a warrant to search/seize where a person has a protected privacy or property interest. The constitutional analysis on searching/seizing an object and/or “seizing” a person’s DNA sample is essentially the same principle that gives LE authority to go through folks’ trash w/o a warrant. By discarding a thing & leaving it in a public space (or a space that is not within one’s dominion and control), the person relinquishes privacy and property interest over that thing. The property interest analysis becomes a bit more complicated, but that’s the general idea.

Ugh. I just lost a long edit. ‍

Anyway, in short: LE doesn’t need a warrant for DNA from the sheath bc it was left behind in someone else’s residence. They would need one to swab his mouth, though.

Incidentally, I think that was the sole source of delay to arrest. They couldn’t get a discard from BK to run & match. So they changed strategies, stopped the Kohbergers in Indy to get video confirmation that MK is dad. Collect discard from dad instead.

 

[justwannahelp]

how about this?
E is asleep in bed.
He is murdered first.
X is out of the bedroom at the time, eating or tiktoking in a different room
she returns to their shared bedroom and encounters the killer who then kills her.
?
Speculating.
I don't think it matters much and we really will not know until trial.
But we can try finding out more about the alleged killer..

I still think the victims were stabbed in the order in which the judge read the names and charges for their murders. She started with burglary then
Maddie Mogen
Kaylee Goncalves
Xana Kernodle
Ethan Chapin

BUT i think Xana was still alive and wounded. He stopped “early” with her when he noticed Ethan in the bed. Then he goes back to crying Xana abd says don’t worry I’ll help you and uses the knife until she’s dead. He may have lifted her off the floor and said don’t worry I’ll help you to her face and she whimpered and then he threw her against the wall (the thud) then the final stabs and or slashes. Her room was pretty small so her body could have hit the wall and still been found lying where it was.

 

[MrB327]

Well 16 minutes minus the time to go from the car, into the house, kill 4 people, out of the house back to the car and drive away for someone untrained and in a fluid situation.

Probably more like 12 minutes total inside the house. Set a timer, sit back and imagine the scenario in your head. Twelve minutes is a looong time for a frenzied, cowardly attack on helpless, unsuspecting victims. ..imo

 

[10ofRods]

I would suggest E, yes IMO the noises heard is their altercation. In addition to BK being strong and muscular, and as you note too, he would be pumped on adrenaline at this point of the alleged attack.
I do not believe that it was X given the position of the bodies described in the PCA, the location of the camera which recorded the noise suggested to recording sounds in the bedroom rather than in the living room/threshold, and the timing of the recording at 4:17, given the amount of time it would take for the perp to egress the scene.

Indeed, the last sighting of the suspect vehicle is allegedly at 4:20am, according to page 6 of the PCA, and he simply IMO would not have enough time or reason to have thrown X, although he did have time to "finish" his attack on X as he left, IMO. All JMO.

Thank you for the thoughtful response (your screen name is a good fit).

I am perplexed by what the thud would have been, for sure. If he didn't throw Xana (who might not have made much of a thud anyway), did he shove or kick Ethan back toward the wall, maybe already wounded by the knife? I'm just trying hard to think about how such a loud thud (loud-ish; I just experimented with a 50dB sound in my own house less than 50 feet away and cannot hear it from 30 feet away). A crow squawking at 80-90dB 30 feet away is audible inside the house, but sounds fairly faint from 50 feet away with the house in between us.

Could be BK slamming shut the bedroom door? Because I still believe that the roommates did not initially see into the room very far or at all when they started calling Xana's phone and freaking out that they could hear it, but she didn't come to the door (per early reports of the 911 call). IMO.

The slamming of the door would be in keeping with BK's agitation that Xana was not in bed and Ethan was likely awake.

It could also have been Xana slamming the door, but failing to be able to lock it before BK flung it open. A door slam would likely register from outside the house (we sometimes hear door slams from our neighbors, even one across the street and more than 50 feet away - a house with several young people, occasional spats, etc)

 

[MindMeld]

Law enforcement is required to get a warrant to search/seize where a person has a protected privacy or property interest. The constitutional analysis on searching/seizing an object and/or “seizing” a person’s DNA sample is essentially the same principle that gives LE authority to go through folks’ trash w/o a warrant. By discarding a thing & leaving it in a public space (or a space that is not within one’s dominion and control), the person relinquishes privacy and property interest over that thing. The property interest analysis becomes a bit more complicated, but that’s the general idea.

Ugh. I just lost a long edit. ‍

Anyway, in short: LE doesn’t need a warrant for DNA from the sheath bc it was left behind in someone else’s residence. They would need one to swab his mouth, though.

Incidentally, I think that was the sole source of delay to arrest. They couldn’t get a discard from BK to run & match. So they changed strategies, stopped the Kohbergers in Indy to get video confirmation that MK is dad. Collect discard from dad instead.

 

[justwannahelp]

how about this?
E is asleep in bed.
He is murdered first.
X is out of the bedroom at the time, eating or tiktoking in a different room
she returns to their shared bedroom and encounters the killer who then kills her.
?
Speculating.
I don't think it matters much and we really will not know until trial.
But we can try finding out more about the alleged killer..

I still think the victims were stabbed in the order in which the judge read the names and charges for their murders. She started with burglary then
Maddie Mogen
Kaylee Goncalves
Xana Kernodle
Ethan Chapin

BUT i think Xana was still alive and wounded. He stopped “early” with her when he noticed Ethan in the bed. Had to kill Ethan because he was a threat then get back to Xana afterwards. Once he killed Ethan he he goes back to crying Xana abd says don’t worry I’ll help you and uses the knife until she’s dead. He may have lifted her off the floor and said don’t worry I’ll help you to her face and she whimpered and then he threw her against the wall (the thud) then the final stabs and or slashes. Her room was pretty small so her body could have hit the wall and still been found lying where it was.

 

[Charlot123]

I've been following along here and also watching news coverage somewhat obsessively. I don't think BK wanted to get caught but I do think he'll want to be studied now that he's in custody. I think, MOO, that he'll confess at some point and spill everything. I think if we see his family suddenly travel to ID when there's really nothing happening court wise then that will be telling. He'll want to meet with his family first. All my personal speculation. I hope he does confess to spare the families and friends of those in the house that night.

I think BK, if he is guilty, needs to be studied. There are more and more studies about the biology of suicide, but we know very little about homicide. Killers themselves may be unable to answer, what drives them, but - I think Israel Keyes’ suicide (sadly, a humongous lack of discipline on behalf of his guards, as he was ready to talk), deprived science of study subjects.

JMO, why can’t we accept that people’s genes are different, and just look for answers, and study prevention.

 

[KMouse]

MOO

Same spec that I've been considering. <modsnip> Women were repelled by him, so he would never have a family of his own. Not a single friend. Perhaps his advisor at college was beginning to not want him around. I really believe that he knew he would never finish the Phd.

Many people in that situation would fall into depression, maybe become suicidal if they could not adapt and change pathways.

He went totally over to the dark side. Evil. Some people will continue to pick apart his psychological profile but this is not a case of sanity, this is evilness. There is a difference. MOO

This all makes sense regarding the initial desire to rape as opposed to murder, although i do think murder was also a part of his agenda if necessary..
The large trusty knife on his person however, does not let him down and serves as an impressive substitute for whatever fails him.. speculation, imo.

I don't believe that sexual assault was on the menu that night. I think that BK is an injustice collector. Why them? Easy access to the house? Socially popular young women and men were his target? We haven't seen much come out about his past other than a little bit of information regarding his university work. Did he date? Did he use dating apps? What did he do for fun in his leisure time? Was he a gamer? Was he on Discord or Twitch? He's 28 what was his social life like? No friends to hang out with? Why not? Were the women who lived there the target or the house because it symbolized everything BK was not?

 

[Cindizzi]

Are there any legal-minded folks here who can explain the next steps in the process and any estimates how long these could take in Idaho? TIA

This article is old, as we know he already had his initial hearing. A status conference is scheduled for January 12.

I’m guessing they will set a date for the prelim ( or waive it) at that time. JMO

What will the Idaho court process look like for Bryan Kohberger? - KXLY

MOSCOW, ID. — Bryan Kohberger is behind bars in Pennsylvania without bond. His lawyer says he’ll waive his extradition to Idaho in court on Tuesday. His lawyer adds his client is “eager to be exonerated.” Now just because a suspect is in custody, that doesn’t mean the case is over. For Latah...

www.kxly.com

Once Kohberger arrives in Idaho, he’ll have an initial appearance with an Idaho judge to make sure he has competent counsel representing him, and then the hearing dates will be scheduled.

In the state of Idaho, they have 14 days to hold a preliminary hearing. It’s like a mini-trial, where prosecutors call witnesses and present evidence. This trial is used to determine if there’s enough evidence and probable cause to go forward to trial. However, the defendant can waive a preliminary hearing, and there’s a good chance that’ll happen with this case.

If the judge determines there’s enough evidence for trial, the defendant is bound over to district court for an arraignment. Here, they enter a plea and start the clock on what can be a long journey toward a trial.

 

[MrWilliams]

This is why I can't watch her. I've tried more than once.



I listened to an interview with a Retired Det. and loosely quoting, Bundy and others like him, would not have gotten as far as they did had they committed their crimes today. Today, surveillance is everywhere. It's basically "1984". People even have hidden trail cams on wooded property. Whole surveillance systems in their homes. These were 20-year-old kids. Invincible. I didn't lock my doors til I was much older and my 2nd s/o was so anal about it that I finally got into the habit of doing so as well (of course they had lived in a large city with far more violent crime, for several years, prior to returning to the hills).

I agree,

Not to mention violent crime is rare in a college town like Moscow.

 

[Charlot123]

I think BK, if he is guilty, needs to be studied. There are more and more studies about the biology of suicide; much less is known about homicide. Killers themselves may be unable to answer, what drives them, but - I think Israel Keyes’ suicide (sadly, a humongous lack of discipline on behalf of his guards, as he was ready to talk), deprived science of study subjects.

JMO, why can’t we accept that people’s genes are different, and just look for answers, and study prevention?