ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 58

[Helechawagirl]

Yes they did. I think they must have thought it necessary to ensure no one else inside gets hurt/the suspect doesn’t have time to hold them hostage or hurt them or kill himself. Better to be safe than sorry when you’re arresting someone accused of killing 4 people and basically having little to lose. Idk who pays for it. My guess is if law enforcement contributes anything it wouldn’t cover the full amount.

This has been answered previously. Most feel that insurance covers the damage. Tactical means are to reduce risk to the le as they do not know what weapons may be in the house. 3 am is a time when most people are presumed to be asleep.

 

[Montecore1]

On Page 4 of the AA it states that DM described the PERP as “not very muscular, but athletically built” (direct quote of the AA, not DM). That seems odd to me. While it certainly is possible that someone could be athletically built but not muscular, it seems like a fine distinction to be made, particularly under the circumstances – in the dark or semi-dark, about a person presumably clothed from head to toe, and, possibly in multiple layers given the weather, and by a frightened 20/21-year-old who only saw the PERP for a few seconds.

I wonder what caused DM to describe the person in this way or that led the LE to summarize it like that.

I took that to be strange as well, this may not be a popular thing to say around here but when I read that I thought that it sounded like she had been coached... MOO JMO IMO

 

[MissNightshade]

I'm thinking the "Good Vibes" neon may have saved DM. If it was on and temporarily blinded BK as he was walking toward the kitchen he would not see her door open at all. His eyes would have to adjust.

 

[SuzieQurious]

An irrelative question. I jump back into websleuth again after taking a break for 4 years. I read the news LE broke windows and doors to arrest BK. But do they really just that dramatic? I though the dramatic scene we see in movies are for visual effects only. Can they just knock the door and ask him to step out (with guns pointing at the doors). Who will pay the fees to fix the damages?

The element of surprise? I heard discussions how care is usually taken to not do such operations amidst holidays when there are many known guests, for instance. This way they catch him while he may be sleeping and he cannot harm himself or others so quickly? They saw him put the garbage in the neighbor's bin one night. I

I also see the timeline in the affidavit as a potential stumbling block, although more evidence that the prosecution has could make it erroneous. The defense will quite possibly attack the instrument used for the collection of additional evidence and the arrest. Another possible hurdle will be the announcement of the 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, that mysteriously morphed into a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra, although I know of no such announcement from the official announcements made by LE.

These are just possible nits that the defense will possibly use to begin picking.

All of this is just in my humble opinion and that is normally wrong.

The PD has much experience and seems to have a good reputation. She requested a gag order and a stop to the crime scene cleanup. This substantive case features Anne Taylor:
1. "ask[ing] for her client's charges to be dismissed because of double jeopardy, saying a new trial "would be the result of outrageous government conduct and therefore would violate Mr. Ellington's due process rights under the Idaho and federal Constitution."

2. successfully "challenged prosecutors asked improper questions meant to turn the jury against Ellington.

3. Also led the court to find "Idaho State Police Cpl. Fred Rice gave testimony on accident reconstruction that conflicted with statements he’d made in previous court cases and contradicted training materials he’d prepared."

4. Convinced Judge John Luster to evaluate "whether to dismiss the case against Ellington because of a last-minute evidence issue defense lawyers say infringes on his right to a fair trial. Prosecutors had earlier thought a fingerprint analysis of evidence found no conclusive identifiers. But they recently learned the expert had meant the final analysis only excluded Vonnette Lee Larsen, whom Ellington is accused of murdering. Ellington’s lawyers, public defenders John Adams and Anne Taylor, say the oversight violates evidence disclosure rules."

Also----"Anne Taylor, a criminal defense attorney who is qualified to represent people facing the death penalty, said she already has to tell her clients that under state law they won’t find out exactly which drug or drug combination will be used in executions until it is often too late to take legal action. Idaho allows the Department of Correction to withhold that information until shortly before an execution." KMVT 11

Sources: The Spokesman Review.

 

[PitkinGirl]

A few random observations:
1.) Is it me, or is this guy pulled over by police a lot for someone supposedly in criminology and academia?
2.) I am hoping and praying that DM was given the opportunity to select BK from a photo lineup prior to the arrest. How great would it be if she was shown several photographs and was able to pick him out based on his appearance over the mask.
3.) First timer? Since he seems as though he may have a proclivity for running his mouth on message boards and social media groups, I hope they are able to find his other accounts and history and see if he may be connected to other cases over the years. He's 28. Dahmer killed his first victim when he was 18. Apparently 27 is about the average time a SK starts killing, so I guess that would be correct, but how many go straight to a mass killing?
4.) Am I correct that both KC and MM worked at a vegan restaurant? I wonder if there are any records of BK being in there. It would seem pretty likely that if that is true, he could have certainly been in there to check out vegan options (not that far) and came upon one of the girls, tried his pathetic attempt at "flirting" and got shot down.

On your point 1 - Yes he is pulled over a lot. I have lived and worked in Moscow for 35 years and have been pulled over twice.

 

[Boxer]

Agree but it doesn’t make sense to walk right past someone in a house and not see them. Even in the dark. Very unlikely to me. There has to be a reason she was spared. I keep going back to how were these four linked that the two survivors were not?

Have you seen how her door could be open less than an inch and she could see down the hall?
MOO C and E would be alive if they had both been in her room with a closed door.

 

[Helechawagirl]

That’s in the PCA. Says FBI took trash from parents house and DNA from his father matched BK

Yea—she just Pinnochioed the wording a bit…dna from him and his father matched.

 

[minazoe]

I don't think he saw her in the door way...but I think she may not remember everything..she was very lucky and locking her door was the right thing to do. I can see being too scared to come out or make a sound..I can see falling asleep after no more sounds came and possibly convincing myself that I was being ridiculous...I can see waking up and still being
afraid because my instincts are telling me something is not right.

something like this..like a wife sleeps in the bathtub while a raging husband tears the house apart..locking herself in falling asleep and hoping it's over come morning. mOO

 

[YepperBepper]

Agree but it doesn’t make sense to walk right past someone in a house and not see them. Even in the dark. Very unlikely to me. There has to be a reason she was spared. I keep going back to how were these four linked that the two survivors were not?

Maybe this?

He may have seen her but not really? Even if he did see her, perhaps killing the 4 satisfied him? Nothing to date indicates a crime of revenge or purpose, so right now ..I'm assuming he did this for pleasure.

What is his mental health status after stabbing four people? Was he exuberant? In a different zone as some killers describe? Or perhaps he was exhausted and drained? I doubt there was rational thought during this time.

I'm not seeing anything methodical in what he did? LE described the crime scene as sloppy, it's been reported that it was bloody, it took less than 15 minutes.....it sounds frenzied.

Imhoo

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I took that to be strange as well, this may not be a popular thing to say around here but when I read that I thought that it sounded like she had been coached... MOO JMO IMO

Doubt she was coached since the timing of the interview almost certainly came before LE had BK on the radar as a POI.

 

[TeaTime]

An irrelative question. I jump back into websleuth again after taking a break for 4 years. I read the news LE broke windows and doors to arrest BK. But do they really just that dramatic? I though the dramatic scene we see in movies are for visual effects only. Can they just knock the door and ask him to step out (with guns pointing at the doors). Who will pay the fees to fix the damages?

The 3am SWAT is to capture the perp when he/she is most likely asleep as are all other residents. Breaking windows and doors on all sides causes confusion as perp doesn't know where the intrusion is coming from. No-knock warrants are used when going to arrest dangerous perps, especially those who are alleged to have committed multiple murders.

It's shock and awe, meant to confound a sleeping perp so he is less of a threat.

The threads have been flying for days. I haven't seen this discussed. I certainly could have missed it. If true, the final nail IMO.

According to Nancy Grace, in Pennsylvania trash “they found
discarded items that match back to the Sheath that was left beside one of the dead…..”

Nancy claims he went from home to home with his trash, depositing it all over the neighborhood late at night, all under surveillance by FBI.

If so, it was all promptly retrieved by agents.

LE had the vehicle on video and described it as a 2011-2013, until the footage was reviewed by some special agency and determined to be a 2015. He registered the vehicle in WA 5 days after the murders. The new registration popped out when a new query was entered - Bing! - it was just registered to BK, formerly of ABC PA. Just so happens, cell towers picked up his phone, and maybe his car, within a short walk of the house on at least 12 prior instances, at night, in the dark in the 3 months he was living in WA, 10 miles away.

At this point, he is looking suspicious and needs further investigation.

There were likely hundreds of tips on his 2015 because it takes an expert to tell them apart.

DNA on sheath, not in any database. Grab the trash from the parents, the registered owners of the car until November 18, and Ta Da! dad is 999.9% the father of the male killer, his only son.

SWAT

Perhaps he has an even more messed up identical twin that always borrows his car.

 

[evelezrn]

Agreed. More like a tennis player vs a weight lifter or boxer.

IMO that is how he looks to me too. Broad at the shoulder, tapers to the hips, has the frame to put a lot more muscle on, but hasn't lifted much if at all judging from his neck, forearms, etc. But I'm a certified trainer and a gym rat and I assess people like this all the time. It seems very discerning to pick up on it under those conditions. Maybe she pretty much meant "not squishy looking or short, but not like a D-1 athlete."

 

[SuziQ]

If the Moscow police were being truthful with their initial release of info, on their website they stated,

"On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor." King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

This states that they called their friends because they thought someone was passed out/unconscious. Which again makes me wonder how they knew someone was passed out. It means someone had to have found the victims or at least one of the victims, right? Or it means DM knew something bad had happened and waited in her room until noon. If DM thought nothing bad happened then what made them call their friends then the police (again unless they found a body.)

If you can believe SG, that is not what happened in the 911 call. Some of what is in the daily updates was not updated or factual. Like when they discovered the more accurate year of the car. The public was never notified of the change. Imo. I will look and find a Link for SG's remarks on the surviving roommates and the 911 call. I apologize for not having one handy. Imo.

 

[cottonweaver]

For sure that is something he would have noticed because that is not something that can be missed. That told him he had a houseful from which to fulfil his desire for the 4. He would have been guaranteed to get at least 4.

I'm curious about the payback for him.
Unless he filmed it the gratification period would have been way too short. What is the point? I'm not seeing revenge or any of the usual suspect reasons for such an act..
As far as we know he is not connected to any known terrorist groups or antigov.
What could be the point and where was it in his scheme of things? Do this one quadruple killing and continue as normal?
Why?

And then he ups the stakes and opts into an intensely long road trap with probably the person that knows him best in the world and has to maintain his secret under duress?

Does he even know what he allegedly did? Does part of him actually believe he did not do that thing?
Who does he think did it and if he didn't do it and has no memory of doing it why the hell did he get up at 4am to deposit potential DNA scrapings in his neighbours' dustbins?
I don't think it's very likely he was just dodging rubbish payment costs here.

I don't know. Whole thing is sick & twisted.

Pages & pages ago, iirc you asked something like ' why take your phone with you at all? ( if you're not going to use it in the crime and don't need it there. )

As he probably wasn't wearing a go pro ( which WS-ers had previously speculated about) & the whole act was too quick & frenetic for filming with his phone, could he have audio recorded instead, from his pocket?

IDK the proportion of perps who use tech to record their acts, although yes have heard it's getting more common.

 

[Helechawagirl]

If they swabbed him and the dna didn’t match (this would assume he’s dad is not his biological father) would we know about it yet?

I believe it was reported that they took dna in PA when he was arrested.

 

[SuziQ]

Agree but it doesn’t make sense to walk right past someone in a house and not see them. Even in the dark. Very unlikely to me. There has to be a reason she was spared. I keep going back to how were these four linked that the two survivors were not?

We will have to agree to disagree. It makes sense to me. Imo.

 

[TheNile]

Idk if I believe that he saw her or not. However, I don’t think we can rule out that he wanted her to be a living witness, until the trial or that info is shared. All moo

JMO, I lean towards the theory that he could very well have seen her, and he left her alive on purpose. He's clearly a psychopath, It wouldn't be too far fetched to say he wanted a witness, and wanted her to live with the experience.
Moo

 

[stormsailor]

I thought the same about the 2011-2013 announcement as a conflict but it is explained in the affidavit plus LE didn't need to update the year to public since by that time they had already located it. Plus, as they got more surveillance they could identify it clearer than other footage,imo

They did explain it, but will the defense attorney not make a point that they are "shaping" the evidence to fit the suspect. Mind you, I'm playing Devils advocate here because that is precisely what the Defense attorney will be. In another train of thought I think they have the mass murderer in custody and he is the one.

 

[Cindizzi]

Method of Mattress Removal from House???

snipped for focus @Cindizzi From still pix displayed on my tablet (i.e., rather smallish), appeared to me that each one was slipped into a bag before being put into pickup truck bed.
Maybe bags like below.*
Seems like that would at least reduce chances for contamination from post-crime sources or transport.
Perhaps someone viewing on bigger screen would see differently?
Just a thought. imo jmo moo icbw

* https://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/Image/GetMedia/?id=447&media=7421

Mattress Bag Sets with Handles for Moving and Storage

U-Haul Mattress Moving Bags with Handles are designed to protect your mattress and box spring during moving or storage. Our plastic mattress bags are made with 2.25 mil heavy-grade polyethylene to keep dust, dirt, moisture, pests, and other contaminants from damaging your mattress and box...

www.uhaul.com

Here’s more photos and videos.

Looks like the mattresses are in some type of zippered covers ( flimsy white ones). Imo
Looks like a bed frame is wrapped in black material in video.
I agree with others that one would think they would have used a bigger enclosed moving truck or van instead of cramming them in pickups!
Bad optics to me.. doesn’t say “ handle with care” IYKWIM

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611479809699483648

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611491913785577472

 

[Annicade]

If the Moscow police were being truthful with their initial release of info, on their website they stated,

"On November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call was made from one of the surviving roommates’ cell phones inside the residence. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before Moscow Police arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor." King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

This states that they called their friends because they thought someone was passed out/unconscious. Which again makes me wonder how they knew someone was passed out. It means someone had to have found the victims or at least one of the victims, right? Or it means DM knew something bad had happened and waited in her room until noon. If DM thought nothing bad happened then what made them call their friends then the police (again unless they found a body.)

I just thought of something.... maybe since the doors have locks with keypad it was shut and Ethan's alarm was going off.. hence why DM thought someone was passed out, not waking up.
I'm just stumped about the dog.. how could the dog be so quiet all morning and not barking to go outside without someone going up to let him out of the other upstairs bedroom, unless they did.