ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 58

[Dotta]

The master’s student who spoke anonymously said they had a class with Kohberger on Nov. 15 and don’t remember anything that stood out.[/I]

"Suspected Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger showed 'unsettling red flags' after the murders, always looked 'exhausted' and 'never slept' according to a neighbor and a former classmate."

Idaho 'murderer' neighbors reveal his late-night behavior

Ben Roberts (left) said his former classmate Bryan Kohberger (inset) started showing up to college 'really tired' after the Idaho murders, while neighbors of the suspect said he 'never slept.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Rallodgnrl]

Imo Comments about shaving eyebrows and former drug abuse are examples of just turning life events into suspicious actions reflect bias.
Furthermore, they feed into lynch mob mentality.
I would guess many people have been, or been close with someone, who at some point in their lives has struggled with addiction.
The fact that this particular man overcame it and went to college IMO is commendable.

 

[thoughts101]

The way I look at it is it would have been put back in his pocket after he took it off and could have fallen out anywhere. I doubt he would put it on the bed after he removed it the first time because it might be hard to find afterwards.

I believe it may have fallen off his person during the defence by one of his initial third floor victims. MOO and speculation.

 

[Diogenetic]

That is only a thought exercise IMO, in the face of the forensic and phone evidence (no doubt there is more), and BK needs to account for his presence at the scene if the police can establish it in fact (which IMO, based on the PCA and other evidence, they could assert this at court and in interview with BK).

However, it may be possible for BK, or any defendent in a criminal case, to be found not guilty on the basis of him not forming the intention to do murder, despite still committing a murder, since the law broadly requires the action AND intention. This would be the only way I believe that BK could avoid the offence.

If his defence were to argue "it wasn't him, he wasn't there at the time of the murders" or similar, I would consider that potentially an act of professional negligence on the part of his legal team, as it does not provide him with the best defence he could have against the death penalty, IMProfessionalO. It is a fanciful argument IMO, and bares no attempt to understand and refute the prosecution's case.

Absent a restraining order though it is not a crime to follow someone, stalk someone etc. Plenty of people, I image a lot of males and even females in their 20's probably do so without harming the object of their obsession. heck one can find it in literature where the stalker is someone portrayed as a sympathetic unrequited lover, or even that the stalked person eventually falls in love with.

I am not saying it is ok in the least. and of course it is a reach, but I would think that the defense, if they decide to fight it out in court, will say that he was following one or more of them as an obsession, with no evil attached. Is it a reach? maybe, but it is their best course.

 

[b2alicia]

My speculation is that he has been feeling gratified ever since he killed them. Maybe replaying the entire scenario in his head, savoring the memory, all his senses tingling when he recalls the sights, sounds, everything from that night.

My guess, just a guess, is that he felt thrilled while the world was wondering who was the "genius" who seemed to have gotten away with a very complex multiple murder.

My guess, just a guess, is that even now that he's been captured, there's still gratification for him. I feel that he is enjoying being in the spotlight, and especially that he is reenacting all the steps that captured notorious killers have undergone before him.

Maybe the handcuffs, the SWAT team breaking into his house and simultaneously busting all the doors and windows, gratified his sense of being an "important" murderer.

Even being in court, a judge reading charges, court officers surrounding him---IMO I think he's following a script he wrote, produced and is now starring in.

Jmo

IMO, his motive reminds me, possibly, of another murder from about 10 years ago. But I can't find it now on Websleuths, and I can't remember the murderer's name. But I recall clear as day that the perp said, "It wasn't as exciting as I thought it would be.'

 

[Omega Man]

That cell phone of his is strange business. He switched it off so its/his location can't be checked, that's okay. But why take the phone at all if it was switched off? It would be of no use in terms of GPS aid for driving, communication etc. So if it couldn't be used why didn't he just leave the phone at his place?

Here's the kicker, I've just checked this on my phone. You can remove the SIM card (disable connectivity with cellular network) but... the local apps still work just fine. That includes camera.

Just to be fair, I doubt he'd have time to use it within the time that he spent at 1122 King Rd. All IMHO as always.

 

[newredtabby]

I recommend you read the PCA again.

I recommend YOU read the PCA again.

"D.M. stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her."

No "ONLY". Like I said, words matter.

 

[AuntTricia]

On Page 4 of the AA it states that DM described the PERP as “not very muscular, but athletically built” (direct quote of the AA, not DM). That seems odd to me. While it certainly is possible that someone could be athletically built but not muscular, it seems like a fine distinction to be made, particularly under the circumstances – in the dark or semi-dark, about a person presumably clothed from head to toe, and, possibly in multiple layers given the weather, and by a frightened 20/21-year-old who only saw the PERP for a few seconds.

I wonder what caused DM to describe the person in this way or that led the LE to summarize it like that.

MOO

Not muscular but athletically built brings to mind the physique of a swimmer or diver. Athletic but not muscular.

 

[thoughts101]

I recommend YOU read the PCA again.

"D.M. stated she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her."

No "ONLY". Like I said, words matter.

I think "only" is implied. The list of body parts covered in the PCA seems closed/definitive to me, else DM and the investigator would describe a mask which covered mouth, nose, eyes, hair, etc. OR which covered areas such as his mouth and nose, if a broader category of words were meant. Normally in a legal document words and language are to be interpreted narrowly, IMO

 

[CarolinaGirl816]

Hello all. Long time reader buy made an account because this case hits close to home for a handful
or reasons. I did want to share a story about an incident that happened to me a few years ago just to illustrate that you honestly have NO idea how you would react in this situation and the people criticizing DM are killing me. On what planet does a 19 year old female, living in an extremely safe college town (per LE) think noise at 4am in her shared party house and seeing a man she doesn’t recognize = 4 of my closest friends have just been murdered?

I’m a professional woman in my 40’s (mom, husband, kids) and live in what you would consider an affluent suburb (leaning toward rural with 1+ acre lots) town. A few years ago I went for a run around 10am on a regular Tuesday. I was running down a main road at the edge of town where houses lined one side and forest lined the other. This was not a desolate road, there is traffic and borders a much more populated town.

As i was running a truck pulled up beside me and a somewhat friendly guy asked where the closest gas station. I stood back and told him to follow the road to one or he could turn around and follow another route. He thank me and continued down the road.

I changed direction and headed back on the same road (my planned route) and maybe 5 min later he had done the same and stopped me again. Said he was confused with my directions and asks again to the closest station. I repeated what i said and he thanked me and took off. I thought it was unusual but figured he was flirting or confused and I was on mine 8 and tired - it was late winter and I was getting cold so I was just focused on getting home and warm.

Until half a mile up the road, i saw he had pulled over to the side and was standing standing leaning on the hood of the truck. My initial
thought was sort of ‘huh? wonder why he stopped again?’ I wasn’t exactly scared, but it made me nervous. I crossed to the other side of the road and there happened to be a street into a neighborhood that I took instead of staying straight and running by him. I looked at him as I turned and he looked at me, waved and said ‘hey, good to see you again’. The neighborhood houses didn’t start for a bit so the road in was just woods. I looked back once i was in the sidestreet and he was back in his truck slowly following me.

At this point I knew this was not normal but I was confused and my mind sort of went blank because I couldn’t understand why someone would follow me. It didn’t make any sense to me. I was running like I always do. I sort of froze there in the middle of the street looking at him and trying to understand what was going on. He stopped the truck, got out, and started to jog towards me and by that point I was terrified and my mind just told me to RUN.
He followed me down the street and though one yard, maybe two, then stopped. I ran through a few more and then stopped and hid in a child’s playhouse in someone’s back yard. At that point I called my husbands cell which went to voicemail so I left him a sobbing message that I was chased and scared and didn’t know what to do. I waited in that little house freezing my *advertiser censored* off and scared out of mind for about an hour and then I ran home and locked myself inside. I look back at that day and can’t understand why I didn’t take a picture of the truck and license plate or call 911 or scream or bang on someone’s door. Even when I was hiding in the playhouse terrified my mind kept questioning if I made up with happened or it wasn’t as scary as I had thought. Maybe the guy just needed directions? The idea that someone may have been trying to take me or hurt me is just so hard for me to wrap my head around. It doesn’t ‘fit’ into my life. I ended up reporting the incident to the police but was beyond humiliated that I couldn’t think more clearly or strategically in the moment.

So, please be gentle to DM. We know a tiny portion of what happened that night and we should all hope to god we never experience a fraction of what she has had - and will have to process.

I was a member of websleuths a number of years ago, but just now "re-enrolled"...I wanted to respond to this as I had a couple of experiences where I reacted in a way that would seem to be counterintuitive...thank you for posting your experience - glad you are OK.

Years ago I used to jog in the mornings - early about 6-6:30 AM. So it was just starting to get light. I lived in a townhome in a fairly metropolitan area, where there was lots of construction...a neighborhood, but close to office buildings, retail, etc. As I was jogging, I noticed a man walking on the other side of the street...seeing someone walking about that early was unusual but I didn't think much abut it until he started to cross the street, not directly but at an angle...my mind said "when he gets across the street, he's going to be behind me!!" Danger! I still cannot explain what made me react the way I did, but I didn't start running faster...in fact I turned around, balled up my fists, and shouted at him "GET THE *advertiser censored** AWAY FROM ME!!!" He was exposing himself and told me what he was going to do to me! I shouted "YOU ARE NOT! I LIVE RIGHT DOWN THERE AND I'M GOING HOME TO CALL THE POLICE" and I took off. Went home, looked over my shoulder and he had disappeared!

I did call the police, feeling foolish as I couldn't describe the guy, and I remember not feeling afraid but really pissed off!!! Maybe I subliminally realized he didn't have a weapon and we were in a semi-busy neighborhood...can't explain it.


Secondly, in 2019, my neighbor murdered his wife...she was very reclusive and it wasn't unusual for her to not be seen around the neighborhood. The husband had logical, if a bit odd, explanations about where she was. Turns out he had killed her, dismembered her, and burned her body, putting the ashes in a nearby lake. It took several months before they arrested him and everyone was shocked!! They had been together since college and seemed like a very loving couple!!! I was totally stunned...as was the entire neighborhood.

So my point is...you never really know how you are going to react in a situation until you are there! Concur with The Gift of Fear - fabulous book!!

 

[minazoe]

That cell phone of his is strange business. He switched it off so its/his location can't be checked, that's okay. But why take the phone at all if it was switched off? It would be of no use in terms of GPS aid for driving, communication etc. So if it couldn't be used why didn't he just leave the phone at his place?

Here's the kicker, I've just checked this on my phone. You can remove the SIM card (disable connectivity with cellular network) but... the local apps still work just fine. That includes camera.

Just to be fair, I doubt he'd have time to use it within the time that he spent at 1122 King Rd. All IMHO as always.

brilliant. did he resist taking pictures? was it too chaotic and no time? how fast can he be with a phone camera? is 15 minutes plenty of time to kill and take some photos? mOO

 

[ilovewings]

He was attorney for scott peterson... Mark Geragos

That didnt worK out so well for Scott Peterson

 

[Jbaileetaxes]

Good points. Seems likely description of fit runner.

I don't know if he would dressed in many layers. More layers impedes movement and is more blood contaminated clothes to dispose or deal with after the attack. in the military if you are going to send in a small squad to reconnoiter, attack something or someone, etc, they are going to go out with the absolute minimum of anything that will impede them. If I was going to sneak into someone's house for the purpose of killing them with a knife, I would be wearing the absolute minimum, and it would be form fitting as well

As far as what she saw, there is a lot of interesting work on what eyewitnesses see. Professionals are trained to look and note a number of key characteristics. When a cop sees a possible perp they are marking clothes, height, weight/build, hair color/style, footwear, complexion and other key identifiers

Regular people not so much They sometimes get things completely wrong, or fixate on one or two things.

Ken eye to spot this. I agree that is odd. I’ve never heard 20!year old, especially in these days, word a sentence like that. Not muscular but athletic. For a description lacking any real description, that statement says a whole lot.

I’m not even sure how that would even look especially under the circumstances. He could have possible used his own description but I would think in a affidavit exact words would have to be provided

 

[newredtabby]

Sure, it doesn't say it "only" covered the mouth and nose but it states it covered his mouth and nose. We all know it didn't cover his bushy eyebrows because DM noticed them even in her shock. My guess? It covered exactly what the affidavit said and no more (his mouth and nose without using the word 'only'). JMO!

View attachment 393713

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

ETA - I'd think if it was something like a ski mask she's have said "a ski mask" and not a "mask that covered his mouth and nose". All MOO

We'll, if we're "guessing", then it might have been a full on ski mask covering every single part of his face except his eyes and eye brows. Also, he may have had a hood that covered the top of his head and the rest of the ski mask. My point is we can't assume it ONLY covered his nose and mouth, because that hasn't been stated by a verified source. People read one post that says "only his nose and mouth", and then that suddenly becomes facts of the case.

Words, and the CORRECT words, matter.

 

[thoughts101]

We'll, if we're "guessing", then it might have been a full on ski mask covering every single part of his face except his eyes and eye brows. Also, he may have had a hood that covered the top of his head and the rest of the ski mask. My point is we can't assume it ONLY covered his nose and mouth, because that hasn't been stated by a verified source. People read one post that says "only his nose and mouth", and then that suddenly becomes facts of the case.

Words, and the CORRECT words, matter.

Fanciful. None of this is suggested by the PCA.

 

[TL4S]

The way I look at it is it would have been put back in his pocket after he took it off and could have fallen out anywhere. I doubt he would put it on the bed after he removed it the first time because it might be hard to find afterwards.

The sheath appears to be pretty large and rigid. I'm not sure it would fit in a pocket well, but he could have had it shoved in his waistband, as many have suggested. Even then, imagine the physicality of this crime and having like a 10-12 inch stiff leather sheath in your waistband (or pocket). It isn't that he couldn't have done that, and we don't have the advantage of knowing the type of clothing he was wearing that night, but I'm not convinced he'd keep it on him.

It might depend on where he was when he pulled it out, too. If he was still undetected and standing next to M's bed, he might have pulled the knife and put the sheath on his person, but if he waited until he was on the bed and maybe M (or if K was there, both) was stirring, he might have been more inclined to toss the sheath aside. This is just some of my personal thoughts on the matter. I think he carried the knife into the house in his hand, sheathed, and unsheathed it as he was crawling on top of M, sort of letting the sheath fall beside them. JMO.

ETA: I also think part of his mistake was not even thinking about what he was going to do with the sheath, otherwise, he would have either had it on his belt, or left it in the car. I think he likely found himself in the moment, pulling the knife out, and then like, "wtf do I do with this?" sort of thing. IDK.

 

[NuttMegg]

IMO It's irresponsible & unfair to pick apart literally everything a person says or does because they are accused of a crime.
The defendent has a right to defend themselves.
Why not allow the entire process and full story to be told?
In this particular case the defense is saying they look forward to telling their side. It's at the point where they do, when people can make an informative decision on guilt or innocence.
The process is the same whether it's someone accused of speeding or accused of murder.

We never will hear the "full story" in court. There is all sorts of evidence blocked because of this or that. Do you really think BK is going to get on the stand and relate what happened that night? Do you think his pd won't fight to disallow everything she can?

Anyway thank goodness we're on a crime board that allows analysis of the msm verified words and actions of a person accused of cold blooded grisly murder of 4 kids.

Imo

 

[Ragnarok]

That cell phone of his is strange business. He switched it off so its/his location can't be checked, that's okay. But why take the phone at all if it was switched off? It would be of no use in terms of GPS aid for driving, communication etc. So if it couldn't be used why didn't he just leave the phone at his place?

Here's the kicker, I've just checked this on my phone. You can remove the SIM card (disable connectivity with cellular network) but... the local apps still work just fine. That includes camera.

Just to be fair, I doubt he'd have time to use it within the time that he spent at 1122 King Rd. All IMHO as always.

Agree. In this day and age along with his education I would think he'd have a clue about cell phone tracking. Just leave it home to support an alibi that he was home?

 

[zoomom2]

That cell phone of his is strange business. He switched it off so its/his location can't be checked, that's okay. But why take the phone at all if it was switched off? It would be of no use in terms of GPS aid for driving, communication etc. So if it couldn't be used why didn't he just leave the phone at his place?

Here's the kicker, I've just checked this on my phone. You can remove the SIM card (disable connectivity with cellular network) but... the local apps still work just fine. That includes camera.

Just to be fair, I doubt he'd have time to use it within the time that he spent at 1122 King Rd. All IMHO as always.

Someone suggested on a preivous thread that he may have brought his phone to check the girls social media in real time, to see where they were or what they were doing. (What if they all decided they were now hungry and headed out to breakfast at a pancake house? We used to do that, knowing full well we would just sleep the rest of the day away.)

 

[Dotta]

I wonder that if his shoe left bloody imprint in the house, then there must have been also imprints in the car - especially gas and brake pedals, no?

Also, there must have been numerous imprints of his shoes in the crime scene, but I guess it is not published now.

I think the report of the single shoe imprint was made known only to give credit to the survivor's story.

JMO