ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[drmrgrl]

I speculate that he may have been triggered by a humiliation that had nothing to do with his victims as individuals, but a humiliation that he associated with them in the abstract (i.e., as undergraduate students). I think he had selected his targets (either 1122 King or specific occupants of 1122 King) well before the trigger event, so the trigger event did not determine who he killed or why, but it did influence when he chose to act. (This is all just my hypothesis based on a possibly flawed understanding of BK's temperament and what motivated him).

The specific event I'll put forward as a potential trigger is the one described by WSU student Hayden Stinchfield in a NYPost article and interview:

Bryan Kohberger ‘seemed preoccupied’ after Idaho murders: former student

A former student of accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger said the teaching assistant seemed “preoccupied” and started grading leniently following the murders of the four University of I…

nypost.com

Based on what I understand about BK--including the fact that he clearly identified as and wanted to be seen as intelligent--I believe the confrontational debate over BK's grading practices as described by Stinchfield would have caused BK acute humiliation. I believe BK has a rather authoritarian personality, meaning that he is inclined to show unquestioning obedience and respect to those in positions of power/authority while being strict or punitive towards subordinates. I think that when the (male) professor for whom he was a teaching assistant gave undergraduates the floor to openly critique BK's grading methods/practices, BK experienced a deep wound to his ego that he was not equipped to manage through his usual (limited) coping strategies. And, given his authoritarian mindset, he would not have blamed the professor but the undergraduates. I think he projected his rage at the undergraduate students at WSU onto the 1122 King residents (also undergraduate students) that he was already targeting for other (unknown) reasons. I think this event may have been the trigger that provoked BK to act when he did. (Unfortunately we do not have precise information about the timing of this event, but I would very much like to know when this occurred.)

In this hypothesis, it is BK's internal humiliation and rage, rather than external circumstances or the comings and goings of his victims, that really clinched the timing of the murders. And to be clear I think he would have attempted the murders regardless -- he had been fantasizing about them and planning them for a while.

IMO. Agreed. Does anyone think that BK knew X via her sister who attended WSU?

 

[Snoopster]

Police should check the west side of quarry pond on Quarry Lane about 3 miles south of Moscow on west side of Hwy 95 for suspects clothing and weapon.
If he left murder scene at 4:20, then turned cell phone back on at 4:48 near Blaine (6 miles south) that would mean there is about 20 minutes unaccounted for.
Google Earth shows an easy exit and private area to get rid of evidence. If it’s really an old quarry it is likely deep with steep sides.
Allowing a few minutes to feel safe to turn his phone back on makes this a prime spot to look for the missing evidence.

Thanks for your insight and welcome to Websleuths!

 

[Bhodie]

The reason I say it’s imperative is the right timeline. If he is on video driving at 4 04 exactly that means he couldn’t have been in house at 4

This officer probably wrote approximately 4 because she did not say it was exactly 4, the timeline the police have is not exactly 4 but it started slightly after 4 and therefore the sounds she started hearing were approximately at 4 and when theses officers, witnesses and experts testify they will narrow down that timeline for all to see the series of steps/acts that took place and approximately at what time. They can not have an exact time of what went down and when just an approximate with the video of the car and the ring doorbell no exacts are here.

 

[NCgardener]

If pictured in the mind, dm wakes up and hears “what she thought was k playing with her do in one of the rooms upstairs. I’m pretty sure she would know ks voice. If right after she heard the same voice say someone’s here, it was likely k as well. It would be now a few minutes after 4. If the timeline is correct and dm is now awake that means she would have been awake to hear if someone pulled slider open go across the kitchen and go up two winding wooden stairwells passed her door upstairs to kill the two girls above her and go back down the stairs around to da room. That would mean k was awake when bk would have gotten in sometime after atleast 4:08 or so from timeline.

She was paying attention once she woke up. He’s a tall guy not dainty in a rush. Seems impossible a person would hear someone say someone’s here but not all the noises of sliding doors, ups and downs of stairs and a murder of two people directly above but would hear a whimper from all the way through living room around corner.

I’m not putting dm down. No matter what it’s horrific.

I’m just saying there’s something missing.

Ok, say the food guy did deliver at 4:00. Is it possible that the car woke her up? Or maybe that means that X went to the front door and opened it, waking up DM. She sees the clock and stays in bed.

Call that 4:00-4:02 Food and Door. Xana takes the food somewhere.

4:06 (imo) DK slips through the kitchen sliding door and up the stairs. Say Xana took her sandwich to her room, maybe, and is getting on TikTok.

4:08: (imo) the "dog" commotion occurs and DM hears it. The dog may be involved, but the 'playing' is really two stabbings. Imo, it's about 4:12-4:13.

...

 

[Skigirl]

My eyes changed from blue to green/hazel when I was in second grade. My daughter’s eyes also changed when she was about that same age (7 years old.)

Agree that iris color can change, it actually does in at least 10-15% of people (Why eyes change color as you age).

Mine were dark brown until I was a preteen, when they lightened to a topaz color with flicks of brown and green, and then went to hazel when I was a late teen, then they lightened to full-on green by the time I was in my late 20s which is the color they are today. In my case, it seems like it's entirely due to a loss of melanin over time. My father's eyes also got lighter with age and his are almost blue now.

 

[elainebenice]

I’d like opinions to what you think explains these things

1. Affidavits don’t have to state everything but they need to be true to the point of probable cause. This makes it extremely important to have it stick to be very grammatically accurate.

D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the
second floor. D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m.

What is meant by originally. Having that word there leaves questions and if it didn’t mean anything could have easily just been left out .

The next thing that is crucial IMO is that she stated she woke up at approximately 4:00 am. To me, this is sooo important. Think about it. If you are dead asleep and got woken up, how could you state at all what time it was unless you look at an actual click. If you look at click, I know exact time.

A person just throwing a wild guess what time it was out of thin air would not hold up to mean anything. This I find this wording by officer to stand out. You either know the time or you don’t.

I think it may mean she went to sleep again at some point after he left, which makes sense to me for several reasons, even though I can understand why some people would question whether someone could go back to sleep after witnessing what she witnessed. It also helps explain the delay in calling 911. I think it was probably poor wording on the part of the writer, but there's always a possibility she went downstairs at some point to the other roommates bedroom and stayed with her for the rest of the night. For some reason I don't think that's the case and that she remained in her room until right before 911 was called.

 

[EJB123456]

I have a new question.... (and sorry if this has already been brought up & discussed)

Does anyone have any idea what records from DM & BF's phones led LE to believe the time of death within that 25 min window??

Page 5 of PCA
View attachment 393982

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

We’ve speculated that there may have been some texting going on ‘hey keep it down up there’ or ‘did you just hear that crying are X and E fighting?’

 

[gremlin444]

As the poster whose 20 yo son has been dealing with severe visual snow issues and the disassociation caused by it for over 2 years now (they haven't gone away, he's just learned to accept and adjust), I'd like to clear up a few things. I have done so much reading on this topic and talked to so many therapists, doctors, and specialists about this. IMHO, IMO, JMHO, and all the alphabet soup.

1) I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT IF BK HAD VISUAL SNOW/DEPERSONALIZATION (and the associated issues that can come with it, not to mention the things the person in those Tapatalk posts is mentioning), THAT IT EXCUSES HIS ACTIONS. Nor is it his "motive." If this information is true and it is BK and BK is the murderer (IMHO, yes), what it CAN do is help create a better picture of the person who committed these acts especially if this is something he was dealing with for nearly 10 years during his formative preteen and teenage years.

2) I am in no way saying that if BK is the murderer, and these are his posts, and he did have all these issues going on, that the death penalty shouldn't be applied. BK clearly has the ability to determine right from wrong--even if not internally, his field of studies spells it out quite clearly in all his textbooks and the severity of the crime + the planning that went into it make it (IMHO) an appropriate consequence.

3) With the symptoms that the person writing those Tapatalk posts is describing, it becomes a chicken and egg situation--did the poster have medical or mental health issues that were causing/contributing to the visual snow and depersonalization or was the visual snow causing the DP and the other mental health issues? Or were they coexisting without being causal to each other?

things that can be linked with visual snow (from my research and what my son's doctors have told me): migraines (both stereotypical and visual migraines), result of long term or sudden high frequency use of LSD or marijuana (HPPD, which is technically it's own diagnosis), hyperexcitability of the visual cortex, schizophrenia, auto-immune disorders, and "unknown."

4) Because most of the time doctors can't find the cause for a patient's visual snow, testing is varied and treatment is throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping something works. And it usually doesn't. My son had a sleep study, MRI, neuropsych exam, blood work, in depth eye blood vessel exams, etc. Treatments we tried were medications to reduce lateral eye twitch speed, Gabapentin, anti depressants, and anti anxiety meds. He did DBT, CBT, and transcranial magnetic stimulation (which was also for medication resistant depression). No real improvement from any of these.

If this is BK, and if he did have this disorder, and if things were this bad for him at that young of an age for as long as it was, I sure can feel compassion for him having to endure that. That doesn't mean that I feel compassion for the choices he made. And if my son (heaven forbid) were to commit a criminal act right now, he knows that I'd be the first one on the phone to call the police. And the first to hold him accountable. And I'd be in court making sure his legal rights as determined by a court of a law and state/constitutional were being upheld and that if found guilty, I would 100% accept it.

 

[BettyCooper]

The cameras show him still driving at 4:04.

I just read the posting by the mad Greek restaurant and it states that baddy and Cana worked at mad Greek. Those were the two rooms targeted. E and k weren’t supposed to be there

Yes, I get that. The car entered the area for the last time at approximately 4:04 am & left at approximately 4:20 am. That's only a 16 minute gap. D.M. could've woken up & heard something at any point during that time & referred to it as "approximately 4".

Re: Mad Greek. It's possible that could be the connection, but there's also loads of other similarities between the four victims. For example, M & X were in the same sorority, M & K were from the same hometown, X & E were at the same party, etc. Kaylee & Ethan's cars were both in the driveway, so he should've known there were additional people inside.

 

[SteveP]

Someone here on WS also speculated about a sheath a few weeks prior to the PCA. Honestly, even on here, there were some crazy, creepy theories about what may have happened. I don't think anyone here is BK because of their speculations. People other than murderers can speculate on details and get them right.

Actually, more than one person here speculated that a knife sheath had been left behind, a few did, very early on, but on a site like this, with hundreds of people following a thread, almost every possible scenario gets suggested eventually. It is what we do, throw enough stuff against a wall, and hope something sticks. It doesn't mean the person did it, or had any specific knowledge, but most likely means the person also speculated countless other things that did not turn out to be true. I think that is probably even more likely on some of those other sites, that have little to no moderation. JMO

 

[marble]

Yep. He misses social cues that go beyond the "normal" understanding that a woman might not be interested. Like, maybe if you've had a drink and a chat, asking "Are you here with friends?" or "Are you seeing someone?" might be OK questions. If you're talking that way to staff, that's never OK, nor is it OK to ask where someone lives. Especially with that phrase—asking if you live in town or the neighborhood hits different than "Where do you live?" and he seems not to understand the difference. I don't care if we've been having a nice chat; those questions are absolutely out of bounds. And your average guy knows that. I'm not going to diagnose or parse what's up with this dude, but something is definitely off with him socially.

<modsnip>I would not be surprised if we find out BK spent time in some the darker places on the web and in social media sites that cater to violence and hatred <modsnip>Given what I've read about his less than mainstream beliefs about women and LGBTQ+ folks my own guess is he's spent time in some alt-right spaces online developing these beliefs and nurturing grudges.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Just think about what all LE probably knows about BK and his activity over the last several months. They know his class schedule, when, where, and who he sent emails, texts, and calls to, when his phone went to Moscow and where it went, what he searched on his computer and phone, what items he purchased on credit cards, footage of him from gas stations, retail stores, and so on,

<snipped for focus>

It's almost scary how LE can literally know your almost every move in a given amount of time, if they want or need to, due to technology. It just seems so much easier to be law abiding rather than trying to commit the perfect crime.

MOO

 

[layer]

He has to explain his DNA without knowing what LE knows at this point time - because it is his DNA.

Technically, he doesn't have to explain anything at this point, and the prosecution has to turn over discovery so he will know exactly what they know before trial.

 

[rabidstoat]

I made this post 6 weeks before the PCA came out:

And this post on December 2:

I remember reading posts long ago theorizing about how the sheath might have been dropped. I was thinking to myself, "C'mon, no one is going to be dumb enough to leave a huge knife sheath behind!"

I was very wrong.

 

[Pitsleuth]

Can someone please explain how the VS forum was found/ linked to BK in the first place? I’m totally confused on this.
TIA.

 

[layer]

It's almost scary how LE can literally know your almost every move in a given amount of time, if they want or need to, due to technology.

Want to be really scared? It's not just LE...

 

[Sleuth2010]

IMO, as I recall, weren’t BK and his father asked “ are there any mental health issues” at BKs PC hearing? And they both said: “NO”

Bet the killer, is crying mental illness, as soon as his attorney starts plotting a defense.

 

[Sincerely]

I keep thinking about the body cam of the neighbor who reported something about her car. Like a door was left open or… I really cannot remember and cannot seem to find it. She said nothing was missing. A shoe print was left on her car, I believe. Could this have been BK? I’m curious now but I would like to watch it again because I’m not sure if I’m remembering it correctly. All IMO.

 

[WildWest]

The bankruptcy papers say they surrendered their home. PDF Schedule D page 16 of 50 from heavy.com. Link about halfway down the page in the article.

https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/15416931747.pdf

Bryan Kohberger's Family: Parents MaryAnn & Michael Kohberger

MaryAnn Kohberger is the mother of Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger. Michael Kohberger is Kohberger's father. Learn more about the suspect's parents.

heavy.com

JMO

So BK would have been around 10 y/o?

 

[elainebenice]

The cameras show him still driving at 4:04.

I just read the posting by the mad Greek restaurant and it states that baddy and Cana worked at mad Greek. Those were the two rooms targeted. E and k weren’t supposed to be there

I'm not sure we can say E wasn't supposed to be there. I know the popular theory seems to be that he was surprised by E being there that night, but I actually think that's probably not the case. It's my understanding that E stayed over most nights with X as he lived in the fraternity house. If BK had been watching the house, as it certainly appears he had been from the cell records, he would have known E was there most nights.