ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[SRWCF]

It seems as though he MUST have visited the house before (whether when it was "open and easily accessible" for a party or at an earlier time when he may have entered uninvited at night when residents were sleeping).

That 2nd floor is odd in that the flooring is not all at one level on it; there is a step up to the living room from the hall, which is located at the foot of the 2nd-to-3rd set of stairs between the kitchen and DM's bedroom.

One would think an intruder likely to trip or stumble at that point, both when he was moving from the base of the 2nd-to-3rd set of stairs to the living room (to advance to XK's room) as well as when he made his way back out to depart the residence. And particularly so when moving around in semi-darkness as minimal light would have been provided by the "Get Vibes" light (there was one on the wall shared between the living room and bathroom on 2nd floor as well as one on the 3rd floor) and the "fairy lights" on the outside patio.

Even if he familiarized himself with the layout of the residence from online rental or real estate listings, that detail would have been very easy to miss.

I've thought about this, as well, that it would be a very difficult house to navigate had you never been inside before.

I could also see him joining one of the many parties that took place there. Let's hope he did not do that because that would be a great defense since I'm sure they have more DNA on him than was listed in the affidavit. "My client was in the house on at least one occasion attending a party."

However, if he did attend a party, I'm fairly certain a surviving roommate or another partygoer would be able to identify him as being their previously. BCK would definitely not blend into that younger sorority/frat crowd, IMO.

 

[SUNchips]

I am wondering is there any real evidence of him using heroin in the past? Many people here are discussing it almost as a fact or is it just an online rumour from one or two people claiming that for breaking info about him for money as i dont think he seems like an addict or former addict and i know many drug users but i might be wrong JMOO.

I don’t see why people can’t just take it at face value that he was likely a drug user, at least in the past. I hate when people think they know the “look” of current or former drugs users.

I don’t usually divulge this but I have used heroin myself in the past and people would be absolutely shocked to hear that. I’m upper-middle class, a blonde white girl, and graduated Magna *advertiser censored* Laude. People are even surprised when they find out I use marijuana. You just never know what people do in the dark and what their demons are. Not every drug user (even heroin) is a “junkie”, falling asleep and with needle marks in their arms. Just some food for thought.

 

[Wishbone]

I know that the MPD update indicates friends were called over, but SG spoke of something different. Imo, they saw the carnage, ran outside, neighbors heard the commotion and ran over, seeing one passed out. Then 911 was called, maybe friends too. I don't think anyone went in the house. There are some things in the PCA that differ from the MPD update. Like they eventually knew the correct year of the car, but that was never released to the public. Imo.

snipped

A neighbor is claiming the door belonging to the house in which four University of Idaho students were found murdered was wide open hours after their deaths.

The neighbor told Fox News this week that the front door — which opens to the level where two other roommates were unharmed — was wide open around 8:30 a.m. on Nov. 13.

The claim comes almost four weeks after Ethan Chapin, 20, Xana Kernodle, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Kaylee Goncalves, 21, were killed

Police in Moscow, Idaho, have not commented on the information relating to the door in their press releases. A police spokesperson told Fox News, "That type of information is part of the investigation and not released."

They continued to warn the public against speculation and unvetted information and refered to press releases from police for details on the investigation.

Idaho student murders: Neighbors saw front door 'wide open' morning after attacks

A neighbor is claiming the door belonging to the house in which four University of Idaho students were found murdered was wide open hours after their deaths.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

snipped
The neighbor told Fox News this week that the front door — which opens to the level where two other roommates were unharmed — was wide open around 8:30 a.m. on Nov. 13.Police say they believe the stabbings happened between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m., when the victims were sleeping and as Moscow police officers were responding to an unrelated incident about a hundred yards away.When asked about the state of the front door when police arrived, a spokesperson told Fox News on Thursday "that type of information is part of the investigation and not released."A 911 call about a possible "unconscious person" was made from the phone of one of two surviving roommates around noon.

Idaho murders: Slain university students' neighbor says front door left wide open after attacks

A neighbor of four slain University of Idaho students killed in their sleep claims that they saw the victims' front door wide open hours after the slayings.

www.foxnews.com

 

[SRWCF]

Should the question arise as to the legality of the camera/audio in the state of Idaho it is legal to do.

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/documents/2018-NAR%20Surveillance-Survey-Update.pdf

…

Not sure about admissible in court.

Jmo

I'm thinking it would e admissible in court, otherwise it wouldn't have been mentioned in the affidavit.

 

[indicolite22]

IMO yes may have been using. I think there is an endless amount about BK we have no clue of. I wouldn't have pegged a student in a PHD criminology program as a heroin user. Looks and background don't seem to match. Also a younger BK that wanted to be in LE her an army ranger does not match a heroin user.

IMO he is a much different character than a picture and resume show.

He was likely a heroin user at some point in time. His friend mentions 2013, BK's purported SM posts (up to 2012) don't mention drugs, just medications. He didn't embark on his undergraduate studies immediately after high school, so perhaps he got clean by then.

 

[WildWest]

By saying "about 4 AM" , how will DM explain how she knew it was "about 4 AM"? If she says it's because she saw the time on her phone later and estimated it was about 10 minutes before that she saw the man in black clothes pass by her door, then won't that be a problem since she also says she was in shock at the time? How would that play into estimating time? Just thinking about how the defense might question her at trial regarding her testimony.

Maybe there was a clock on the wall in the kitchen? I walk all the way to my living room to see the time if take a potty break at night.

 

[Banff]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around those 5 minutes (4:12-4:17). Heck, even those 8 minutes (4:12-4:20). If BK's car was seen driving around @ 4:04 in a sloppy fashion (as it appears he usually does from multiple traffic stops)... then it took him at least a few minutes to finally park and walk to the house. You'd think he wouldn't just barge right in without at least stopping to listen & observe for any movement inside the house before entering. At least I'd take a moment to pause for that, if not to simply will my heart to stop beating so hard before I went in to do what he did.

So if it took him another 2 min to finally park (4:06), and another 2 minutes to at least pick up his knife (since it apparently wasn't on his belt), then walk to the house (4:08), then that leaves 4 minutes that either Xana was apparently unaware something was going down, realized it had started ("There's someone here"), or about to go down as she was on TikTok at 4:12 and might still be eating her DD. Keep in mind his car lays rubber 8 minutes later (4:20) so that is not a whole lot of time to kill 4 people!

So, either Maddie and Kaylee were first and already killed by 4:12 ("There's someone here"), or Xana and Ethan were first. I'd think that if M & K were first the dog would have barked before 4:17. To me, the dog started barking either because he heard M & K being murdered, or because it heard X & E being murdered. It just feels to me like the dog barking is when things started. Although it could have been growling or barking too low for it to be captured on the audio next door.

If X & E were first that leaves BK ~5 minutes to kill all 4 of them (she's on TikTok @ 4:12 & the dog starts barking at 4:17, which makes me think that's possibly when BK went to the 3rd floor.). 4:17-4:20 gives him exactly 3 minutes to then kill M & K, and then run like heck to his car so he can peel out.

Here's that part of the timeline I posted in a previous thread. I've posted a link to the entire timeline at the bottom of this post in the event there's some who may have missed it and have an interest in it.

4:04am - Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time at approximately 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and turning around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle 1 is in front of the King Road residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road.

4:12am - Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m.

4:17am - a security camera picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 a.m.

4:20am - Suspect Vehicle 1 is next seen departing the area of the King Road Residence at approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed.

Full timeline: ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 54

The timelines seem reasonable. I hope we'll someday know more, after the trial gets underway. I see some people saying that 5 to 8 minutes isn't much time to kill 4 people. I think its more than enough time, especially given the specific circumstances we have here (helpless, weaponless, unsuspecting people who are alseep or half asleep). The killer has a big, sharp knife that he's slashing down on people who are asleep or half asleep, and with no way to defend themselves. Watch a second hand move around the face of a watch for even just 60 seconds, and see how many times you can raise your arm up and bring it down again. Its a lot, and with that kind of knife a mortal wound can be inflicted with as little as one blow, and perhaps a few more. And he didn't stick around while those poor kids bled out, which would add to the time. All he had to do was strike a few blows to start that fatal process and leave, and that's what he did, and that only took a few minutes. These were acts of incomprehensible evil and cowardice, but they didn't take long. Everything was stacked in his favor, which a coward requires.

 

[layer]

Yes, but I didn’t see that it was bloody. Could it have been from mud or a knocked over drink when he encountered X or E outside of their room?
Outside her door is interesting in its vagueness, re how close to her door? Did he consider or try to open it? Or was it out in the general flow towards the sliding door?

The area immediately outside DM's door is a curious intersection between the stairs up to the third floor (where M&K were), the entry to the kitchen (where the sliding glass door is), and the entry to the living room (through which the killer would have had to travel to get to X's room). The bottom of the stairs going up is literally right in front of DM's doorway.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Students return to campuses after grisly Idaho murders, armed with mace and flashlights

Despite an arrest in the fatal stabbings of four college students, they vowed to stay vigilant and take extra precautions in the new semester.

www.nbcnews.com

MOSCOW, Idaho — Some students at the University of Idaho will be carrying mace and heavy flashlights when they return to campus this week for a new semester, less than two weeks after a suspect was arrested in the murders of four fellow students.

As they unpacked bags and boxes over the weekend, students at the University of Idaho and Washington State University in nearby Pullman, where the suspect had been enrolled, expressed relief and caution in the aftermath of the arrest following a six-week search.

Bryan Christopher Kohberger, 28, was arrested Dec. 30 and charged with four counts of murder in the Nov. 13 stabbing deaths of Ethan Chapin, 20, of Conway, Washington; Madison Mogen, 21, of Coeur d’Alene, Idaho; Xana Kernodle, 20, of Avondale, Arizona; and Kaylee Goncalves, 21, of Rathdrum, Idaho.

At the University of Idaho, where classes begin Wednesday, senior Lucy Selph was moving into her on-campus residence, less than 10 minutes from the off-campus house where the victims were stabbed to death with what investigators believe was a large, fixed-blade knife...

 

[jepop]

I think they seized his phone records that began in June for an AT&T account that he opened in June

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong and I’ll delete

Yes, that is my understanding

 

[Wsimm]

IMO, If the posts from TAT discovered via HTC are indeed from BK, he displayed signs of severe mental illness and a brain disorder (VS).

Respectfully, your perspective is limited if you're trying to understand how the human mind works by rationalizing how you've handled situations throughout life and expecting others to react similarly.

Read through the “possible” posts from BK. There is mention of Topamax and that it made him crazy! Topamax/Topiramate is a common medication prescribed for migraines. Topamax is often prescribed off label for many different conditions. One being weight loss! A common side effect of Topamax is appetite suppression.

 

[CityKid]

I agree 100%.

When I first saw him, his eyebrows didn't jump out at me in any way. However, when I read the affidavit and went back to a pic of him, I could see where someone else might say that.

Of course his eyebrows jumped out at her when almost every other identifying facial feature was hidden.

I could also imagine DM being questioned. "Could you see his face?" "Just his eyebrows." "How would you describe them? Thin or bushy?" "Bushy."

 

[ArmChairDet]

The PCA says something along the lines of his phone pinged off the same tower that covers the King Street Residence 12 times between June and 13 November IMO. June is referred to because technically that is when BK's currrent phone subscription began so LE went for historical data for the enire time he held that account IMO. The PCA doesn't specify which months those 12 times occured in. IMO, it is likely that they occured between whenever BK moved to Pullman for his studies and November 13. It doesn't say that he drove by the house 12 times, although when all the evidence presented in the PCA is taken as a whole, his phone using the same cell tower coverage as the house, implies he was in the vicinity 12 times and in conjunction with camera data, dna etc this is used to infer a possibility he was suveiling the house for some time prior to the murders IMO

IMO he won't be convicted on phone "ping" locations. Ping locations will serve the purpose of showing that he may have been there, and help eliminate any alibi's.

IMO the ping data was a quick and simple way (along with DNA from knife sheath) to get the PCA. I would think that for the PCA the data is kept to the required level without too much. Too much quickly gathered early data I would assume could come back to bight in court as erroneous. I believe the trial will have much more digital data that takes a while to derive.

 

[trustno1007]

i can see him easily being able to stab 4 people, but many stab wounds are not fatal.
His were which shows a level of proficiency with a knife and human anatomy.
Where did he get that?
It's not like there are knife ranges, like gun ranges...and it's not like you can learn it all from a book either, short of beheadings..
He didn't just stab them, he stabbed them fatally, in the space of 2-3 minutes.
I still think it's excessively fast.
I also think Ethan was fast asleep but I don't know that to be a fact.

In no way do I want to speak lightly about this tragedy or the four innocent victims, but I wonder if the autopsies showed any hesitation wounds or ones that were not as deep as others. I feel like this info might help LE figure out if BK has done this before IMO.

 

[WildWest]

SBMFF

I guess I'm nobody then. LOL

DMV will test your eyesight to confirm you can see well enough to drive safely. If you take the test while wearing glasses or contact lenses, your driving privilege will indicate that corrective lenses are required. If you do not pass the vision test, DMV will give you a form to take to a licensed vision specialist.

Oregon Department of Transportation : Oregon Driver Manual - Testing : Oregon Driver & Motor Vehicle Services : State of Oregon

Testing

www.oregon.gov

Certification form if you do not pass their test: https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Forms/DMV/24fill.pdf

Specifically for Idaho:

LICENSING INFORMATION

EXAMINATIONS • Vision Screening - Your vision will be tested and you must meet a minimum standard of 20/40 vision in at least one eye, with or without corrective lenses

https://apps.itd.idaho.gov/apps/dmv-audio/documents/DLChapter1.pdf

CO and WY too.

 

[elainebenice]

I disagree. Ethan was asleep, so I don't think Xana's light would be on.

I'm not sure we know that for sure. I am assuming she wasn't eating in the dark so I would think there was at least a TV on or some light unless she was eating in another room, where again, I would assume there would be some sort of light on there.

 

[want2solveit]

i can see him easily being able to stab 4 people, but many stab wounds are not fatal.
His were which shows a level of proficiency with a knife and human anatomy.
Where did he get that?
It's not like there are knife ranges, like gun ranges...and it's not like you can learn it all from a book either, short of beheadings..
He didn't just stab them, he stabbed them fatally, in the space of 2-3 minutes.
I still think it's excessively fast.
I also think Ethan was fast asleep but I don't know that to be a fact.

I think he did the stabbings in a furious sort of frenzy, jerking the knife back and fort to inflict the maximum damage. I think the attack was very personal to him and rage filled. I can understand being in a furious grip of anger. What confuses me is how did he maintain that level of intense feeling enough to proceed to butcher four people. Key takeaways from court documents in case against Bryan Kohberger and questions that remain This says(Link above) his height and weight-from his drivers license were-6'and 185, respectively.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Yes, but I didn’t see that it was bloody. Could it have been from mud or a knocked over drink when he encountered X or E outside of their room?
Outside her door is interesting in its vagueness, re how close to her door? Did he consider or try to open it? Or was it out in the general flow towards the sliding door?

Your last sentence. That one. It was not “in” his direct path. DM was not in his line of sight (which was also impeded due to the balaclava type of black mask/hood she confirmed he was wearing. BK was no longer in seek/destroy mode. He was in exit/survive mode.

Ted Bundy did almost the same exact thing after a murderous evening visit to a sorority house at FSU. The witness he walked past that night as he left was all but invisible to him. In a split second he was out the door. Bundy was also hyper focused on leaving, (and not falling or tripping as he exited the home). Almost identical to BK’s getaway. JMOO

 

[ArmChairDet]

I could also imagine DM being questioned. "Could you see his face?" "Just his eyebrows." "How would you describe them? Thin or bushy?" "Bushy."

IMO for that age -- Bushy. There are a lot of old men with extremely bushy eyebrows, but for a 30 year old I would label them as bushy.

 

[kittythehare]

I don’t see why people can’t just take it at face value that he was likely a drug user, at least in the past. I hate when people think they know the “look” of current or former drugs users.

I don’t usually divulge this but I have used heroin myself in the past and people would be absolutely shocked to hear that. I’m upper-middle class, a blonde white girl, and graduated Magna *advertiser censored* Laude. People are even surprised when they find out I use marijuana. You just never know what people do in the dark and what their demons are. Not every drug user (even heroin) is a “junkie”, falling asleep and with needle marks in their arms. Just some food for thought.

I used it too.
No addiction.
But I was lucky.