ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 62

[zoomom2]

Familial DNA...
First, we do not know that it was even used in this investigation. The fact that MSM outlets publish information from unnamed sources doesn't make that information factual.

Second, if familial DNA was used to narrow down the pool of suspects, it wasn't used to identify this suspect. The PCA laid out the evidence used to identify this suspect, and, as everyone knows, there is no mention of familial DNA there. The same probable cause that allowed his arrest will undoubtedly allow a warrant to get a mouth swab (which I'm certain they have already done.)

Third, a direct match between the DNA from the mouth swab and the DNA found on the sheath requires no familial DNA evidence to be presented in court, no "poisoned fruit", therefore there is nothing to toss out.

I'm open to correction here. What have I gotten wrong?

I think you're spot on.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think their methods for tracking people across country are carefully held FBI secrets.

EZ pass would have been helpful since every time they went through a toll his license plate would have been captured.

 

[Sleuth2010]

I find it interesting when I hear the statements about how this was meticulously planned. I don’t think it was at all.

There is no way a careful plan for a hands on murder lands a calculated killer in a house full of people.

I get the impression he had been itching to do it and was scoping for a good time to do it. That’s it. Any “good time” and he’d try it. I also think he had his gear with him on multiple other trips to Idaho and decided against it . I would guess he’s travelled to the house at other times with his phone off with plans of doing the deed (that LE hasn’t detected yet or told us about).

There were just too many tenants there for him to find an opportune time to do it. And this was almost always the case. The night he did it was the best he could do and it failed because again, any planning exercise would have told him to try somewhere less populated.

A retired detective called it chaos, when the killing begins. No matter the plans, it just doesn't go that way. There is the possibility of other murders in monster-killer's background. 2 couples in Portland area and David Grubbs was viciously decapitated in Ashland, Oregon (college town)

There must be a pattern and history of this killer. Even to stab a dog, takes a very sick, unhealthy mind. So sad...

 

[Strong1]

EZ pass would have been helpful since every time they went through a toll his license plate would have been captured.

Anyone remember the show, Person of Interest? I think it is possible that some parts of that show could be actual reality.

 

[jepop]

The PCA has LE

I keep getting confused about how they tracked BK to his parents’ house in PA. I understand that the WSU cops saw his car, traced it, found that it had just been titled with WA state and given front/rear WA plates. I get that they found that his prior registration was PA. I get that PA has rear plates only and video on the night of the murders showed an Elantra with a single plate.

I get that cops got DNA from trash at BKs dad’s house which connected BKs DNA with a 99.998% probable match to his dad.

But how did they connect BK to being in PA for Xmas? I don’t believe his car was tailed or surveilled by air. I don't think they had the DNA connection made yet, thus he wasn’t apprehended prior to his trip to PA.

Sometimes I think I’ve connected those dots and then at other times I’m befuddled. I don’t think it’s fact that they used the genealogy databases to connect BK to the home in PA before Xmas.

How did they track him to the Kohberger family home in PA? This is driving me crazy.

The PCA has LE acquiring BK's historical ping data from June 2022 to current (ie 23 December 2022) on 23 December 2022. So he was tracked retrospectively on 23rd December, yes, but in real time (ie14th/15th Dec approx when BK travelled from WA to PA) I haven't really figured out. BK was in LE's sights by 14th December owing to the car, according to the PCA. But there was no phone data access until 23rd December when the phone search warrants were applied for and granted on that same day. In addition to the historical records a (I assume remote) Pen Record trap/trace as also placed on BK's phone on 23 December 2022.

p16 https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf
BBM
"On December 23,2022,I was granted a search warrant for Kohberger's historical CSLI from June 23, 2022 to current, prospective location information, and a Pen Register/Trap and
Trace on the 8458 Phone to aid in efforts to determine.. if Kohberger stalked any of the victims in
this case prior to the offense, conducted surveillance on the King Road Residence, was in contact with any of the victims' associates before or after the alleged offense, any locations that may contain evidence of the murders that occurred on November I 3 , 2O22, the location of the white
Elantra registered to Kohberger, as well as the location ofKohberger.
On December 23, 2022 pursuant to that search warrant, I received historical records for
the 8458 Phone from AT&T from the time the account was opened in June 2022. After
consulting with CAST SA, I was able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 Phone from
June2022 to present, the time period authorized by the court."

ETA: So probably by 24th December, post analysis of the historical data, LE knew, retrospectively BK's route to PA. Also, the Pen record trap/trace shows BK's current posi in real time from Dec 23rd. I guess that's how they knew he was in PA for Xmas. IMO

 

[debbiediablo]

Information that is subject to HIPAA​

Health information is "individually identifiable health information" for HIPAA purposes if it:

• Is created or received by a health plan, health provider, health care clearinghouse, employer, or certain other entities; and
• Relates to an individual's past, present, or future physical or mental health condition, the provision of health care to an individual, or the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to the individual.
  
  When individually identifiable health information is created or received by a HIPAA covered entity (or a business associate acting on a covered entity's behalf) it becomes PHI that is subject to HIPAA's privacy requirements. In addition, PHI in electronic form is subject to HIPAA's security requirements. For example, enrollment information that is received by a health plan (a HIPAA covered entity) is PHI as to the plan and is therefore subject to HIPAA's privacy requirements.

Unless PHI is used or disclosed for specified purposes (for example, treatment or payment), a covered entity must obtain an authorization from the individual who is the subject of the information in order to use or disclose it. In addition, a covered entity can use or disclose PHI without obtaining an individual's authorization if the use or disclosure is required by law or regarding judicial/administrative proceedings (for example, in response to a court order).

Understanding HIPAA for Law Firms

Understand the basics of HIPAA ensures your law firm complies with regulations affecting medical data privacy.

legal.thomsonreuters.com

Paragraph 2
the provision of health care to an individual,

Yes, provision of health care to an individual. I worked for a sub-clinic of a major midwestern medical college for the final six years before retiring. We could not even mention a patient's name in an in-house email system to another healthcare provider. Fines can range to six figures.

 

[whiterhino]

BK could have easily jogged to and from the murder scene, he lived less than 30 minutes away (driving). For all anyone knows, he DID jog in the area. If he had parked further away, left the phone at home he might still be out there

It's crazy that for whatever reason, D.M chose to move to the second floor. Yes there is DNA proof and other evidence but it can be construed as circumstantial without a witness. Despite how horrific this crime was, it's a blessing that there was someone present to witness BK leaving the scene. While the defense will try to tear holes in D.Ms account, I believe her 100%. I cannot imagine being in her shoes or the other roommate for that matter. To give witness takes strength and courage.

 

[Libra243]

EZ pass would have been helpful since every time they went through a toll his license plate would have been captured.

Also EZ Pass readers are located in places other than toll booths, including nearly every intersection for traffic monitoring.

 

[Cindizzi]

My understanding is he licensed the car because he had a birthday coming up and he had to legally do so. At least that's how it works in my home state. Changing it to WA makes sense because he would be living there for the next three or more years. MOO

The Pennsylvania plates were set to expire November 30.

Page 10

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[Sleuth2010]

So -- do you think there will be other arrests regarding this case? If yes please explain.

That is a very tough question...with the limited facts of the case we have been gathering...but Joran Van der sloot's, father, covered / helped his criminal son. Leads one to some thinking.

 

[drmrgrl]

I must be missing something here. You have a sheath found near/on one of the victims with BK's DNA on it (after further analysis getting actual sample if BKs DNA). BINGO. What does *TIME* of DNA being deposited on sheath have to do with it? This put's BK *there*..I mean the sheath just didn't *FLOAT* there....of course you have *OJ* defense...it was (cough cough) PLACED there... yeah that's it!

IMO, BK is intelligent and “book smart”, but he also lacks social awareness and appears to be a bit naive. It’s usually people of that personality type that are often led on, duped or set up. The crime scene is inconsistent with what we know of his personality. That’s why I have reasonable doubt. The trial is going to be thoroughly interesting and enlightening.

 

[Ap186]

If they try to go that route, they're just grasping at straws. There is too much evidence that BK committed the murders. But, the defense team has to try anything I imagine. There is nothing unusual about their vehicles being there, but the defense will try anything I guess, attorneys don't care about being awful and disrespectful, it's their job to do anything they can to get their client off, and create doubt.

IMO. Defense attorneys are not awful or disrespectful. “Creating” reasonable doubt is misleading- creating reasonable doubt is not anything other than shining a light on the facts in regards to a firm understanding of the law- hence highlighting that if it’s possible at all whatsoever that the way the prosecution says it happened, that it COULD not have happened (example: only speaking to evidence in PCA which I’m sure more evidence will be presented at trial- but as of right now the only dna being on an item that was brought to scene, could have been handled by another individual). The defense does not bear the burden of proof. They don’t have to prove what happened or who did it. They only have to prove that it is POSSIBLE that they did not. And if it was your son brother father husband who stood accused and there was reasonable doubt you’d hope for a defense attorney that could properly represent that.

 

[Zinn]

One reason, IMO, it would seem that this was meticulously planned is bc of the layout of the house and the fact that he killed 4 people on 2 different floors in a 6 bedroom house within 15 to 20 minutes, in the dark or with minimal lighting. That would be impossible for someone to accomplish by just "winging" it.

It’s hard for me to reconcile this with the vehicle sightings. At 3:29am, the Elantra makes 3 passes of the residence and drives away. The actual location is not detailed and the driveway entrance appears to be on Queen rather than King, so I don’t know if this means the car traveled up and down King multiple times, up and down Queen multiple times or a combination of the two.

At 4:04am, vehicle is seen again and a bit more detail is provided. Driver takes King to Queen, turns onto Queen, drives past the 1122 driveway on Queen and turns back around a bit farther up at 500 Queen. Hesitates when passing the driveway on way back down, described as a failed attempt to turn or park. Perhaps overshot it and braked and that is where the skid marks appeared? Just speculating. Another possibility could be an observation of another active vehicle in the parking area (DoorDash) so aborting approach to avoid contact. Driver continues back down to intersection of King/Queen, turns around yet again and presumably either parks somewhere on Queen or directly in the 1122 parking area. Info either unknown or excluded from PCA.

All of the above reads to me as a driver being lost and bumbling around trying to find a location, perhaps due to the entrance being on Queen rather than King or lack of illumination or something related to the driver such as poor night vision or poor driving and parking skills. However, unexpected DoorDash delivery sighting might explain the excessive driving/turning during the 4:04am approach.

Overall, the driving part does not strike me as having a grasp of the location, though it is possible one could research the interior layout of a house online without getting a grasp of the surrounding streets well enough to navigate in the dark. I can also imagine a scenario in which the first approach at 3:29am was aborted due to a perception of too much activity still happening in the house (too many lights, sounds emanating, etc.).

As always, JMO.

 

[zoomom2]

They traced it to his father through Genealogy....but it's now a forgone conclusion they now have HIS actual DNA linked to sheath. MOO

I was on the fence about how they originally narrowed it down to ONE GUY, because they were hot on the trail about the car being registered at the college, and the car was registered to you- know- who. So they had a name (and home address, etc) and then went and did the trash snooping. But they already had the name.

The dad's DNA was just one more piece of information that proved they were surveiling the right person. Iceing on the cake. Then when they arrested him, they got his own dna.

I guess my point is they were surreptitiously going to get BK's DNA pretty quick anyway, just because of the car. It was only a matter of time.

Just rambling out loud.

 

[Curiosa20]

The vocational program requires a half day of classes since students spend a half day at the program. Imo.

Was he a senior at the time? It's possible he didn't have enough credits to take college classes.

Also, most rehabilitation facilities allow students to continue their studies so he'd likely still be able to complete his coursework at rehab.

Didn't he work as security in the school after he had done rehab and finished high school?

I don't think he zipped through two degrees. He first started at a community College before continuing on to Lasalle. If he went to college for four years and then straight to graduate school, he should have been finished by the age of 24. Imo

He was reportedly in Vocational training as a Sophomore and I am curious as to why he was there. We don’t have those programs where I live. I understood they were to fast track kids into a job or for behavioral struggles. I just don’t get it. He reportedly dropped out of that program early, not high school.His Senior class picture in the school yearbook would be for 2013 graduation.
Classmates statements about Senior year:

Everything we know about the Idaho murders suspect

More than six weeks after four University of Idaho students were brutally murdered, authorities have arrested 28-year-old Bryan Christopher Kohberger

www.independent.co.uk

He didn’t begin community college until 2016. He spent two years at a Community College where he fot an AA degree, entered Desales in 2018 and completed a BA in 2020, started his Masters and earned that in 2022. That’s all a normal full course load which was my reference to zipping through.
My point was where was he between graduation 2013 and 2016 start of college? He supposedly worked at least part of that time as a School guard of some sort until 2017, but other than that his life history is blank, nothing has been discovered online that we have seen and there are only vague references to some possible rehab.
No one goes to rehab for 3 years. IMO
Maybe under different circumstances it would be different but it may be important to an underlying cause. JMO

 

[Boodles]

His previous address would have been on the licence plate change document as well as all other pertinent information about the vehicle.
They tracked it using those gadgets that get one past toll booths and keep records and times and dates.

So you’re saying that the license plate issue raised their suspicion to the extent they thought he was the one? I think I believed that (and it was excellent work by LE to find and trace him back to a PA registration), but now I’m thinking, really? You’re going to put that much resource into tracking him back to PA based on his license plate data? (And did they have his cell pings prior to his drive home on December 14th? I can’t keep everything straight.)

 

[drmrgrl]

And wasn't her or that class $24,000 for 30 hrs or something like that? Ouch. I'm so curious how much crazy debt BK had. He was on the edge, waiting to snap. JMO, MOO

Maybe BKs parents helped him with tuition, hence, the bankruptcies

 

[Strong1]

Interesting article.

Idaho murders: 5 key pieces of evidence against Bryan Kohberger

The case against Bryan Kohberger for the Idaho quadruple homicide appears strong.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Ghostwheel]

Familial DNA...
First, we do not know that it was even used in this investigation. The fact that MSM outlets publish information from unnamed sources doesn't make that information factual.

Second, if familial DNA was used to narrow down the pool of suspects, it wasn't used to identify this suspect. The PCA laid out the evidence used to identify this suspect, and, as everyone knows, there is no mention of familial DNA there. The same probable cause that allowed his arrest will undoubtedly allow a warrant to get a mouth swab (which I'm certain they have already done.)

Third, a direct match between the DNA from the mouth swab and the DNA found on the sheath requires no familial DNA evidence to be presented in court, no "poisoned fruit", therefore there is nothing to toss out.

I'm open to correction here. What have I gotten wrong?

The affidavit says they used trash from his father's house which is familial DNA. Last page.

"OnDecember27,2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville ,PA.That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing.On December 28,2022,the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from
the trash andthe DNA profile obtained from the sheath,identified a male as not being excluded as the biological father ofSuspect Profile.At least 99.9998% ofthe male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father."

Read the Affidavit (Published 2023)

Here’s how the police say they identified Bryan Kohberger as the suspect in the Idaho college murders.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TabathaB]

This article says is was a routine medical appt. He could have had cuts and bruises checked out, but it appears the appt was made prior to the murders and not for a more urgent matter.

Idaho murders suspect was 'charming' at medical appointment

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger attended a routine medical appointment in the days after the killings where he 'charmed' staff by being 'chatty'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger attended a routine medical appointment in the days after the killings and 'charmed' staff by being 'chatty'.

Wonder if he intentionally scheduled the doctor’s appt ahead of time so as not to seem suspicious - perhaps anticipating he may incur a few bruises/cuts and could have them looked at.