ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 62

[Cindizzi]

 

[rsd1200]

Who exactly is doing the ranking here? There are paid ranking systems and unpaid ones (like news organizations).

Do you have a link for this? How many total universities in the "Rational National North" division (and how many are in the overall group - a few hundred, I would think; how do they rank on the total list?)

Ranked by whom is my main question.

This particular ranking was done by usnews.com You can query schools and see how they compare.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/search?schoolName=DeSales+University&_sort=schoolName&_sortDirection=asc

DeSales vs University of Kentucky vs Harvard

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/compare?xwalk_id=210739&xwalk_id=157085&xwalk_id=166027

DeSales Page

Accreditations

www.desales.edu

 

[Sundog]

Good information about going beyond the local county if needed. I agree, the locals probably bowing out in favor of a qualified attorney.

Unless.... one of them is death penalty qualified? Though the linked article stated that a defense lawyer must be death penalty certified, it does not state that 'certification' must include having handled death penalty cases before.

In the end, I have a suspicion that attorneys with actual death penalty trial experience are rare in Idaho. For example, there are only 8 inmates on death row there- and some of those may have been sent there a long time ago.

BK's defense attorney, Anne Taylor, is on the list. She has death penalty trial experience.

 

[OverTheRhine]

Those rubber jail razors really tear your face up.

 

[CSIDreamer]

[…]

Moscow Police Chief James Fry attended Thursday’s hearing and sat quietly during the proceeding. About 50 members of the media were also present. The attorney for the Goncalves family, Shanon Gray, attended on behalf of the family. No members of the other victims’ families appeared to be present at the hearing.

Gray did not immediately return an Idaho Statesman email requesting comment.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271078862.html

I thought ShG, attorney, said he was speaking for all families now? Why would he not attend on behalf of all the families? Maybe I'm missing something here. JMO

 

[layer]

I, too, believe M was the target. I believe the vantage points shown in the attached pics would have afforded BK both a decent view of the third floor and cover from being noticed.

I agree, that dark, uphill back yard butted up against the woods and a secluded parking lot is a voyeur's dream. And the roommates didn't seem to care for blinds and curtains much.

But to me those vantage points give a view of everyone there. K, through her bedroom window as well as M, plus all the other roommates through the kitchen sliding glass window.

I just think that freaky house provided all the incentive needed to a predatory mind, and whoever happened to be in it was the target.

 

[Sleuth2010]

@Gemmie im really behind on the threads and the longer I spend catching up, the more behind I fall. Idk how to reply your post from a closed thread, but the word you were looking for is egocentric

Or another good word to describe the killer is, fiend. A wicked or cruel person. He thinks he is going to be exonerated, Killer is going to be exonerated/absolved all the way to the big-house. No matter how hard the poor Defense Attys. have to try... no quarter asked, none given. As they try to take control of the case, the killer gets an easy taste of jail. Just wait.

 

[Colorado303]

I have some doubt about that because I never read any of those comments, and never had those thoughts myself neither, and I do read a fair amount of coverage. I doubt she is chronically online enough to have noticed.

Do you read the comments posted under the coverage? Or listen to any of the dozens of YouTube channels hosted by non-professionals w/interest in True Crime? Many have tens to thousands of subscribers/viewers. They aren’t MSM so I can’t reference them here but there literally are dozens if not more. In a MSM (MSN?) article posted upthread they say the Reddit thread on this case is one of their biggest and there’s a FB group dedicated to this case with over 200,000 followers. Many, many people will get their info from click-bait sources like those where all bets are off rather than a fact-based forum like WS. WebSleuths is unique because that kind of discussion isn’t allowed here except in private threads (thank goodness!).

 

[Brian5671]

Just got around to watching the brief hearing.

Tend to agree with what some have said, his demeanor has changed, seems more worried to me. No doubt BK read the PCA and shat himself. Bet he thought they didn't have much on him. Oop. Have fun exonerating yourself.

He's likely toast. The PCA is strong and I'm sure they have alot more on him...If he was dumb enough to leave add'l evidence in his WA apartment that will be the icing on the cake.

 

[Hardymum]

I believe they were in 2010 and 2016.

Bryan Kohberger's parents, MaryAnn and Michael, filed for bankruptcy TWICE in 1996 and 2010

The family recently released a statement in support of their son while also stating that they ‘care deeply’ about the victims’ families

meaww.com

I've been thinking that paying for private rehab if he was recovering from addiction could have caused the bankruptcies.

 

[Dotta]

Good point! Also, he self-reported as suffering with visual snow. Shaving with an electric razor seems safer than a razor blade if one has vision problems. MOO

ETA link -

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thosewithvisualsnow/search.php?author_id=6462313&sr=posts

I still am not convinced it was BK writing about so called "Visual snow".

How can a person with this affliction drive a car - especially when it is dark?
Can a doctor even permit such a person to be a driver??

The murders took place at night, possibly in near darkness.

Don't people suffering with Visual snow condition have difficulties seeing properly at night??

JMO

 

[TL4S]

In what way did you think he looked scared? I’m not trying to be rude or anything I’m just interested what makes you think that.
He gave nothing away in my opinion, apart from saying “yes, yes, no” clear and confidently, the rest of the time he was just looking straight ahead.

It's a fair question, because there really isn't much to go on in those 5 minutes. I guess to me, he seemed to move in his chair a lot, clench his jaw off and on, and his eyes seemed to dart around some, oftentimes appearing to look up and to the left where there really wasn't anyone to look at. He was fully capable of responding appropriately to the judge, but IDK...just a sense I have more than anything, fwiw.

Perhaps I'm projecting, but there was a moment when he looked like he thought to himself, "wtf have I done...".

 

[Justice101]

I agree, that dark, uphill back yard butted up against the woods and a secluded parking lot is a voyeur's dream. And the roommates didn't seem to care for blinds and curtains much.

But to me those vantage points give a view of everyone there. K, through her bedroom window as well as M, plus all the other roommates through the kitchen sliding glass window.

I just think that freaky house provided all the incentive needed to a predatory mind, and whoever happened to be in it was the target.

Was it disclosed in the PCA or thru other interviews (or just conjecture) that BK parked his car in the small lot at the back of the house?

Where was that disclosed? Must have missed that.

 

[donnanj]

Unbelievable tales that are not supported by evidence wont get the desired result. Instead it could anger the jury and cause harm to the defendant, ruining any chance of an acquittal or hung jury. JMO.

It worked for Casey Anthony. Baez made George out to be a monster who molested his own daughter then disposed of his grandaughters body after she "drowned" in the pool in his opening and closing. Not one shred of evidence supporting this was presented.

 

[10ofRods]

I am going to respectfully note we have not seen anything saying they did not use public and shadow dna databases combined with other ancestry databases we know the FBI is able to use. The Slate article, by an expert in the field reporter postulated, they likely did. The slate article also touches on why they would not publicize it (and they are not required to until discovery) as this is a sensitive privacy issue with the public and because Parallel Construction investigative technique they used involves using certain investigative techniques to develop and catch a suspect, and different evidence to prosecute the suspect with.
So they had:
A. reason to use ancestry databases: very narrow suspect set more than a month before they had Penn. samples
B. reason not to publicize it: known public sensitivity
C. and we would not know: no need to disclose until discovery. Probably 90% of evidence is not in that probable cause document

So affidavit would not be expected to have use gedmatch since the garbage sample is better, but the affidavit was drafted AFTER they got that DNA.

I think what they did on dna is:
First, use ancestry and gedmatch combined with other databases to get initial very narrow set of suspects
Second, use the more narrow garbage sample collected a month or more later to use best data for PC
Third, cheek swabbed him immediately on arrival in Idaho based on a warrant

My view is a bit different. I think they figured out his name from the Elantra and therefore, knew where his parents were.

They already had his DNA, just needed Dad's (or Mom's) DNA from the trash. Way faster than submitting to GEDMatch and then hiring a professional genealogist or two.

It's possible they were doing both, though. I mean, why not? And there are very few Kohbergers in the US, so when that name came back with a couple of hits from GEDMatch (which it probably did), they knew they had their guy. I noticed that his mom's maiden name is not available through the regular public searches that I do as an amateur genealogist, but any professional genealogist would have that name, I would think - indeed, Ancestry.com has her name (it says) but I am not a member.

I think they cheek swabbed him in PA (for their booking process and per that search warrant) and then again in Idaho, so everyone is happy with the ability to add him to criminal data bases, even if just local.

All of this is making the examination of the forensic evidence at 1122 King Road capable of finding more DNA from BK. IMO. That would be in samples that have multiple sources (like blood samples).

However, I do think BK took some care not to leave much DNA. The sheath was definitely a big mistake.

 

[Diogenetic]

The key thing to remember about the car is that it had no front plate in the videos, so it stood out from Elantras registered in WA and ID. But in a college town, there might have been dozens of Elantra's with no front plate. I notice they didn't point that out at all. They just kept asking about Elantras until his finally rose to the top. They probably didn't want to tip anyone off so that they re-registered their car.

We may be surprised how many matching cars they ran down and eliminated one way or another. Then they got to his and couldn't eliminate him. And one thing after another, the pieces started falling into place. But they apparently couldn't get his DNA. Without a match to that DNA they had, they were stuck. I think that's when they took some of his parents' trash back in PA and proved the familial match. I could be very wrong, but I think that was done before he left school to drive back home with Dad.

Working backward on DNA is an investigative nightmare. In my hometown, a young girl scout disappeared and was murdered in 1975. A semen sample was found on her body. They had one suspect, a young man from her neighborhood, but the case went cold. Forensics were not good in 1975 but miraculously, that semen sample was preserved properly. 20+ years later, still working the case, the police asked everyone they could find of a certain age range that lived in the area of her home for a DNA sample to try and find or eliminate suspects. It didn't give them a suspect, but it did give them a long list of people NOT involved, including that young man who spent 20 years under a cloud of suspicion. Several years after the DNA sweep, they arrested a transient for a different rape and murder, and when they ran his DNA looking for other possible crimes, his DNA matched the sample from her case. When confronted with the evidence, he confessed. Because all they had was the DNA, finding him at all was pure dumb luck.

it absolutely is not difficult nor even time consuming for the FBI to wok backwards or foreword from gedmatch and both DNA and non DNA ancestry data, for which they have been making gigantic leaps in the past decade.
There are algorithms that have been developed that work with hundreds of databases that show of familial relationship, residence, census, known address tables.

FBI is not just presented with a list of 100 to 500 third to fourth (even fifth) cousin males, but one which census data, utterly non private national Driver slice data, all criminal proceedings data (including driving without a seatbelt), sold data from credit cards, the name and address of every single cell phone owner, and hundreds of other databases.

I think we re forgetting that evidence gathered to preliminarily indenting the suspect is not the same thing as what evidence the prosecution chooses to use in the case. If the investigators used three stages, ancestral with other databases which could have given results a month before garbage source, then garbage source, then swab, in the trial the prosecution is probably just going to present the swab as it is more certain and precise and less complicated for jury to understand. Just as, once they had the garbage, they would use that in the PC affidavit instead of of gedmatch type identification of some very very small pool of suspects.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

Stalking is the hunting of humans. It is an extremely deviant behavior. It is not normal and you cannot find a reason or provocation that justifies hunting human beings. Bullied, not bullied. Does not matter. Hunting and slaughtering humans is not justified or explained with any rational explanation. I would guess brain differences have to exist, but, when an individual knows right from wrong (i.e., turning off the cellphone, hiding covertly, going in the house in black at night), that individual made a conscious choice to slaughter innocent lives. Whether they were happy or popular or whatever, they were young adults at school trying to create a future, butchered in the prime of their lives. Ironically, even their grieving families would not, after learning of the slaughter of their son and daughters would not be legally justified in taking the same revenge. They will be reduced to a legal process that will never feel like justice.

I share this because my family was stalked by two individuals for two years that we thought were going to kill us. The provocation? They willingly relinquished rights to a special needs child who became our daughter. She was terrified of them. She vomited every time she saw them. She was three years old when we met her and five when she was adopted. This is how we started our trauma journey and my field in abuse now. These two individuals did NOT want her back. Our daughter reported abuse in their home on several occasions to counselors. We were absolutely stuck. My husband and I had three other young children at the time. These two grown adults, moved from over 1000 miles away. They went to my children's school to scare them. One applied for a job as a janitor to stalk my children. They went to my husband's work. They drove by our home repeatedly, terrifying our children. The sheriff's officer had a deputy assigned to drive by our country home (17 minutes for 911) to make sure we were alive. I cannot begin to express the horror. My oldest child, still young, dropped out of elementary school with repeated panic attacks. If he left home, they would go to his school (shared by all four kids). He did not trust the school could protect him like his mom would. He went into a very severe panic and anxiety overload. There were pictures of the stalkers at the elementary school and anywhere else we were. The university I taught for posted an armed security guard by my college class so I could continue to teach. One day, I was at church, without my husband, I got out of my car with four small children. As I went to go in, with children in tow, the man, well over 6 foot tall came to me. I froze. What could I do? If I ran, my children could not keep up. I would never leave them. I could not fight him. I had no time to call 911. Fortunately, I ran into the church, interrupting the meeting, and church members called 911 and different families took each of my children to separate places to hide them. When the officers came, the two individuals presented a poem on death and a child screaming from a coffin.

We had twelve restraining orders - one against each individual for six members of our family. They were jailed and continued. We had no way out. We could not "give back" our daughter to such abuse and terror and would not consider it. We could not protect our three young children. Every time we slept, we knew we were vulnerable. Our children were vulnerable. I read Gavin de Becker's Gift of Fear and contacted their agency for help. I was forced to learn methods to protect my children and family and became proficient. As an attorney, testifying at the trial was still one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. They were the hunters. We were their prey. At that trial, I summoned all my courage, after two years of intense stalking, looked them in the eye and said, "Normal people do not hunt other people, especially children." When I was done testifying, I collapsed sobbing into the arms of the victim advocate.

This is a hard story for me to share. Years later, the male turned up at an event I was speaking at on trauma and abuse to sit and stare at me as I was running a conference on abuse. He had free frequent flier miles and could be anywhere he knew I would be. Did they know what they were doing? Yes. Had they been bullied? I don't care. Were they mentally ill? Maybe, but they were fully aware of every action they took and nothing, besides a conviction and jail time would stop them. Even that, did not stop him from showing up years later. My daughter has never been in a year book. I do not share information on her on facebook. We keep her hidden because we do not know what they want with her. She is now the same age as the victims. Maybe that is why this resonates so strongly for me. Normal humans do not hunt humans. As terrified as we were, we knew we were being stalked. These young adults in Idaho did not get that blessing. They were sleeping. They had done nothing that could ever justify the horror they endured and, for what? There is no reason. When we can clearly tell that this was a premeditated attack on innocent human life, there is no sadness for the hunter and there is no justification that even merits consideration. They deserved to live. And, even if the killer didn't think so, they deserved a fair fight. This was not fair in any sense of the word. To hunt the sleeping in their own home at the darkest hour of night is cowardly, deviant and there will never be a reason that merits justification or explanation, especially when it is clear the killer was aware that the actions were wrong. It was a choice. It was a thrill. It was a crime against all of society. There is a price to be paid when humans deviate to the thrill of hunting other humans. Thanks for letting me share my story. To this day, it is still difficult to tell.

Oh, I am so, so sorry. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I can't begin to imagine even an iota of the terror and horror that these evil people inflicted on you, your husband and your children.

Agree -- People who stalk other people are not normal and are evil for stalking people for the thrill, excitement and terror that they create for those they stalk.

Brain differences may exist but that's no excuse. There are zero excuses.

Your courage and strength in keeping you all safe and even testifying at the trial is remarkable.

 

[NyxNY]

Cuts on face:

View attachment 394872View attachment 394873

Bryan Kohberger Held Without Bail, Trial Won't Start Until Summer

Bryan Kohberger is in no hurry to stand trial for the quadruple murder, and, not shockingly, the judge is ordering him to be held without bail until that trial.

www.tmz.com

IMO these look to be from some kind of scuffle rather than a razor

 

[SRWCF]

Just a standard request.

Thank you!

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Do you read the comments posted under the coverage? Or listen to any of the dozens of YouTube channels hosted by non-professionals w/interest in True Crime? They aren’t MSM so I can’t reference them here but there literally are dozens if not more. In a MSM (MSN?) article posted upthread they say the Reddit thread on this case is one of their biggest and there’s a FB group dedicated to this case with over 200,000 followers. Many, many people will get theor info from souces like those rather than a fact-based forum like WS. WebSleuths is unique because that kind of discussion isn’t allowed here except in private threads (thank goodness!).

I'm not saying there's no comments like that, I'm saying just because the comments exist doesn't mean she has necessarily or even likely has seen them.