ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[10ofRods]

The prosecution unveiled the protection DM had, by putting her in the PCA. She could have been a surprise witness used only if needed during trial, but they did not make that choice. I wonder why?

Was the PCA not strong enough without her eye witness of his height, build, and bushy eyebrows at that time of the morning?
Were PD all over the area given the physical description DM gave them, and tasked with connected that description to a white Elantra?
If so, it was DM’s description that made WSU red flag BK, with the bodycam from his Oct stop in Pullman.

She also heard his voice, or at least a male voice.
Yes it could have been someone else, but her description is compelling and also lines up with the shoe print on the floor.

I don’t think BK’s legal team would necessarily put her on. I do think BK would put her on just to be entertained by the fear he saw


JMO

I think it was very helpful to the Judge, in deciding to issue the arrest warrant (to know that there was an eyewitness to the sex, height and overall build of the murderer).

It's also important that DM's testimony apparently led to a second pass over the crime scene, uncovering latent prints. Up until then, LE might not have know they were there or where exactly to look with their more sensitive blood detection system.

DM's eyewitness account put the investigation on better footing, as she also indicates that he seems to heading for the exit on the second floor at that time (and that's why the footprint outside is important as well). I think that one footprint outside appears to be from his way into the house, the latent print is him on his way out.

All of this scene-setting helps the judge. IMO.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

For those who saw the Dateline or 20/20, were either them worth watching? Any new useful information?

 

[AggieMeg]

I don't feel that 20/20 is getting inside information from LE and are simply drawing ther own conclusions from police reports.

I'd be hard pressed to find it the article but I many threads ago, someone posted one citing a nearby apartment building that was asked for their camera footage in the very immediate aftermath.

I do believe that there was delay in asking businesses outside the immediate area to review their footage but at that point, they were pretty focused on the Elantra.

We also know that LE managed to find the recording of the 'thud' and barking dog and it feels like it was located fairly early on. It just seems too easy to assume that these are a bunch of Barney Fife's bumbling through and investigation.

I wasn’t implying that, I was simply stating all of these things don’t seem to add up or make sense. Therefore somewhere along the line it’s been misreported, whether in the 20/20 special or otherwise.

 

[10ofRods]

While occasionally talking to oneself is quite common, the quote was

"He was narrating everything what was happening to himself".
(post#391)

Well, umm...
Was he hearing voices?


JMO

Do people who hear voices narrate things to themselves? I've never heard that.

However, people who depersonalize themselves sometimes do (they speak about themselves in the third person sometimes or behave/speak as if they are observing themselves instead of being themselves).

Just saying.

MOO.

 

[jepop]

IMO, the gas station attendant got it wrong, and I would be very surprised if what he says is presented as fact in the program. I haven't watched this program and won't as I am not in the states. Perhaps others can comment who have watched it. LE collected local footage ASAP, in the immediate days after the crime. They would have already had the Queen Road/King Road apartment footage 2 weeks after the crime. See PCA for reference and search articles from week beginning November 13th. MOO

ETA: 20/20 program got it wrong, not gas station attendant - misread post.

 

[Hardymum]

No, it was after.

ETA: Source

I wondered if he could have stashed the weapon in the ductwork. Could be why the HVAC people were there after, to check?

 

[Arkay]

IMO, the defense could say BK had friends in the neighborhood-which may actually be true. He was tutoring someone from class who just happens to live in the neighborhood. Maybe BK was a DD ( drug dealer/designated driver) or a DDD (Door Dash Delivery). It’s hard to say, just because my wifi pings at the bank drive thru doesn’t mean I robbed the bank…..

That's true about your wifi pinging at the bank. But what if in addition to your wifi pinging there just before the bank is robbed, your car and your cell were found to have driven by that bank multiple times when you weren't involved in bank transactions, someone saw an individual inside the bank at the time of the robbery who resembled you, and your DNA was found on the tool used to pry open the safe? IMO it's all those things together that point to BK being guilty.

If I remember correctly, it specifically says she didn't recognize the figure. At best, her description doesn't exclude him.

That being said, I think the other PCA evidence is very strong and they can only have more evidence now that he's arrested. MOO

I agree.
DM does NOT say, "oh yeah, I saw Bryan Kohberger whom I recognized from WSU." But what she DOES say tends (though not 100%) to indicate there was no accomplice since she didn't see anyone else. It also eliminates that the person she saw was blond, or short, or obese, or had a limp, or was a female, or any other features that would exonerate Bryan as the person she saw.

Jmo

 

[Dotta]

Do people who hear voices narrate things to themselves? I've never heard that.

Yes.
In schizophrenia - as they respond to the "voices".

Just saying too

Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is a serious mental health condition. Symptoms include hearing, seeing, smelling or tasting things that are not real (hallucinations).

patient.info

 

[Mad Hettie]

That’s a different situation, because AK and the victim were part of the same household.

MOO

Yes, and yet it still shows the way DNA can be transferred to an object through touch. This is the point some here have made. If all they have is this one single source DNA, it may not hold up to scrutiny.

 

[gliving]

Not sure what this is about.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614329433002856448

 

[10ofRods]

IMO, the gas station attendant got it wrong, and I would be very surprised if what he says is presented as fact in the program. I haven't watched this program and won't as I am not in the states. Perhaps others can comment who have watched it. LE collected local footage ASAP, in the immediate days after the crime. They would have already had the Queen Road/King Road apartment footage 2 weeks after the crime. See PCA for reference and search articles from week beginning November 13th. MOO

I believe the gas station attendant is a she. Further, there were huge debates (especially among Moscow residents, on SM) about the direction of travel and the supposed time of death issue.

Now that we know the murders took place an hour later, the fact that the car was seen heading TOWARD the neighborhood right before the crimes makes more sense.

I think the video itself matters way more than whatever the attendant had to say (which AFAIK is simply "here is some video of an Elantra"). Do you know of other claims she made? Or that she was a he? I must have missed that.

 

[jepop]

That's true about your wifi pinging at the bank. But what if in addition to your wifi pinging there just before the bank is robbed, your car and your cell were found to have driven by that bank multiple times when you weren't involved in bank transactions, someone saw an individual inside the bank at the time of the robbery who resembled you, and your DNA was found on the tool used to pry open the safe? IMO it's all those things together that point to BK being guilty.

I agree.
DM does NOT say, "oh yeah, I saw Bryan Kohberger whom I recognized from WSU." But what she DOES say tends (though not 100%) to indicate there was no accomplice since she didn't see anyone else. It also eliminates that the person she saw was blond, or short, or obese, or had a limp, or any other features that would exonerate Bryan as the person she saw.

Jmo

It doesn't eliminate that the person she saw was blond, short or obese etc though. As I have recently learned, her statement is hearsay until she takes the stand and is cross examined. And cross examination, (or examination) by defense is the defense's opportunity to discredit DM's basic descriptors of the person she saw (it was too dark, you were too sleepy, you were too drunk for e.g.). MOO

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I wondered if he could have stashed the weapon in the ductwork. Could be why the HVAC people were there after, to check?

Plausible. Also possible that LE wanted the heat turned off for awhile to help preserve forensic evidence, but were unable to do it themselves for some reason, and subsequently call the HVAC people.

 

[jepop]

I believe the gas station attendant is a she. Further, there were huge debates (especially among Moscow residents, on SM) about the direction of travel and the supposed time of death issue.

Now that we know the murders took place an hour later, the fact that the car was seen heading TOWARD the neighborhood right before the crimes makes more sense.

I think the video itself matters way more than whatever the attendant had to say (which AFAIK is simply "here is some video of an Elantra"). Do you know of other claims she made? Or that she was a he? I must have missed that.

I already corrected my replies to the OP...I misread her original post as attendent instead of 20/20 program presenter. I believe 20/20 must have drawn incorrect conclusions as to when LE first collected video evidence from local streets. The OP originally stated that LE did not collect video from local street until two weeks after the crime and that she concluded this to be the case from what she watched in the 20/20 program.

ETA: So, no, I know nothing about anything that gas station attendant said was not discussing the timing of the crime and so forth.

 

[Sundog]

"The case isn't strong" even though it's apparently BK's DNA on the sheath of a knife found in the bed of victims who were stabbed to death? Ok.

Last night on Dateline, Keith Morrison asked an experienced attorney who is very familiar with the case if he thought that the case was "strong" according to what we now know in the affadavit. The attorney said that at this point, with what we know, he wouldn't say that the case is "strong," but "solid."

 

[turaj]

Yes. I do think the roommates could see something horrible that next morning, even without opening the door. Did BK lock the door as he left? That could be another explanation. The friends who came over are able to get the door open (I believe two of them may be male), but it's not clear exactly why the surviving roommates did not open the door themselves (or maybe they did, perhaps even shutting it again - as SG describes their horror and one of them fainting):

Idaho victim's family speaks out about surviving roommate

THE father of Idaho victim Kaylee Goncalves has spoken out about a surviving roommate who “froze” in fear and failed to call 911 when she saw the suspected killer. Bryan Kohberger has b…

www.the-sun.com

What the two girls knew and saw before the 911 call is not clear to us, but I assume there's a good reason for that. I think the friends got there while the 911 call was still under way, but can't find the source of the information that one of the friends took the phone from the roommate (who was hysterical and unable to communicate with the 911 officer; the other roommate had fainted). That makes me think that they could at least see inside the room.

I should go back to the media thread and try and patch together what we know about that 911 call.

JMO.

as I understood it the 911 call for for a roommate who was "unconscious". If that is the case that was the initial impression until they started looking around and others got there. Apparently one roommate passed out..at this point neighbors involved. That whole story has not been told in detail and hopefully will not until trial.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes.
In schizophrenia - as they respond to the "voices".

Just saying too

Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is a serious mental health condition. Symptoms include hearing, seeing, smelling or tasting things that are not real (hallucinations).

patient.info

<modsnip - diagnosing> And schizophrenics very much appear to be having a conversation with the voices, not "talking to themselves." He is reassuring himself and narrating his life, not responding to voices that only he can hear.

We have to go with the facts of the case, but my source on schizophrenia is a decade of research on schizophrenics and doing 20 years of field diagnostics, mostly of schizophrenics. I did 2 years of fieldwork in inpatient wards for schizophrenics.

When a schizophrenic responds to voices, it very much sounds like someone being on the phone (although there's often a lot of unusual affect in the responses, as opposed to the flat affect otherwise seen in many schizophrenics). BK never mentions hearing voices in any of his TapATalk missives, which go on for a couple of years. We are allowed to use what he says there. He describes a specific auditory disturbance (which can be part of VSS) and another person responds that they have the same auditory disturbance, but it's not hearing voices.

This is self-soothing and I'm guessing that since childhood, his parents have used those words to soothe him, he has internalized the parental voice and is now soothing himself.

The narration-of-ongoing events is also seen in perfectly normal people. I've never witnessed a schizophrenic narrate their ongoing life events. I've seen schizophrenics pause conversation to listen to their voices, but never have I heard one report that the voices are soothing. The very fact of the existence of unseen people speaking in a room is anxiety producing, not soothing. I also know schizophrenics as colleagues (high functioning schizophrenics) and two of them have been helped by medication (to not hear voices) and the third has grown accustomed to them and ignores them (kind of the way VSS sufferers have to do with their snow).

So it's POSSIBLE that he could be hearing voices, but so far, I see no evidence of it and am going with what has been permitted to be discussed here, as it is the best guess (BK's own account is compelling).

 

[ag513]

Not sure what this is about.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614329433002856448

Based on all of the initials listed in the document, it appears to be a no-contact order preventing BK from making any contact with the two surviving roommates and the close families (moms, dads, siblings) of KG, MM, XK, and EC. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I know you were being sincere, but this did make me laugh.

Not only killing - how often do we hear or read about parents physically punishing their kids? It is not the part about “how they were raised themselves” that I think of. It is obvious enjoyment in some cases that makes one concerned. Some of them (e.g., Valva’s case) are shocking not only because of the result, but also due to obviously sadistic element of parental behavior. I believe we have to talk about it, too, since it is the future of our children and grandchildren.

 

[jepop]

IMO, the gas station attendant got it wrong, and I would be very surprised if what he says is presented as fact in the program. I haven't watched this program and won't as I am not in the states. Perhaps others can comment who have watched it. LE collected local footage ASAP, in the immediate days after the crime. They would have already had the Queen Road/King Road apartment footage 2 weeks after the crime. See PCA for reference and search articles from week beginning November 13th. MOO

I meant to say here 20/20 program got it wrong, not the gas station attendant. I misread post.