ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[Sassafrass]

Dylan saw what she saw, and gave a statement to the police. That is not hearsay. It is herasay that she saw BK. But Dylan's statement does not say that she identified BK. MOO

No. Hearsay doesn't mean drawing inferences. The hearsay rule is basically a "best evidence" rule - it says (in part) that if someone is able to testify as to what they saw/heard/etc., they need to do that, and to be subject to cross on their testimony. There are exceptions (link is to Federal Rules if Evidence 803, so not necessarily what Idaho follows, but they're usually pretty consistent) such as witness unavailable, business records in the ordinary course, contemporaneous records, excited utterances, etc., where the evidence can be admitted even though there is no person testifying.

LaBar's point was that she'll need to testify (and be cross-examined) for her testimony to be given weight for its truth. IOW, a police officer can't testify as to what she said and have it be considered for the truth of what s/he says she said.

 

[Sundog]

Is a video recording of them questioning her on the day of the murders hearsay if she chose not to testify? Honest question, I thought that was actual evidence. Understand that someone cannot testify on her behalf

A defendant has the right to face his/her accuser.

 

[10ofRods]

I would like to have that backed by medical professionals. He does seem bright enough to use the internet for entertainment.

Of course. We all want that. But his medical knowledge as displayed in those posts is pretty advanced for a 15-18 year old who does not have VSS. At any rate, he states he's under care of doctors.

BTW, since he cannot use an insanity defense, I'm not sure any of this will come in, until the sentencing phase. The Judge will surely want some sort of expert confirmation of this neuro condition he says he has.

To me, his posts seem detailed and compulsive (he has no other hope except the experience of other sufferers, he has very little hope at all, but he keeps posting - a lot). For a teenager to choose to spend time pretending to have a rare illness as entertainment is not where my mind goes first.

I posted a picture yesterday that attempted to show what the visual field might look like in VSS, but today i realize that my picture could not show that VSS involves movement of the static or snow. It's not just that the visual field is somewhat obscured, it's that there are visible and constantly shifting/blinking/moving flecks of various colors (BK describes the changing colors of his snow many times, he seems to think that by describing it more carefully, he might get some relief).

I found a good article that describes how the current (2022) of VSS came about:

Editorial: Visual Snow: Old Problem, New Understanding

This Research Topic of Frontiers in Neurology/Section Neuro-Ophthalmology is focused on the current advances in the field of Visual Snow research. It demonstrates the progress made in clinical, paraclinical and experimental aspects with the ultimate aim to reduce symptoms and improve quality of...

www.frontiersin.org

It's a full article, not behind a pay wall.

 

[Aquarian]

True. I think it’s Bethany who made the 911 call because i think it was Dylan who passed out. I think the neighbors took the phone from Bethany because she was hyperventilating and 911 couldn’t understand her and the neighbors s didn’t know what was in the house so they told 911 there’s an unconscious person (Dylan)

But i still don’t understand why Bethany’s phone was useful in narrowing down the time of the murders.

Ive thought Dylan texted B at some point asking her if she heard x,y & z sounds. B never answered bc she was asleep. I think it helped clear them in some way initially. Jmo.

 

[jepop]

No. Hearsay doesn't mean drawing inferences. The hearsay rule is basically a "best evidence" rule - it says (in part) that if someone is able to testify as to what they saw/heard/etc., they need to do that, and to be subject to cross on their testimony. There are exceptions (link is to Federal Rules if Evidence 803, so not necessarily what Idaho follows, but they're usually pretty consistent) such as witness unavailable, business records in the ordinary course, contemporaneous records, excited utterances, etc., where the evidence can be admitted even though there is no person testifying.

LaBar's point was that she'll need to testify (and be cross-examined) for her testimony to be given weight for its truth. IOW, a police officer can't testify as to what she said and have it be considered for the truth of what s/he says she said.

Thank you for the correction. I have been learning a lot about hearsay through this thread and truly appreciate the opportunity.

 

[Montecore1]

It is NFL Wild Card weekend! Taking a moment to wish all the football fans here good luck with your respective favorite teams!

My favorite team didn’t make it in this year, but I bet these two were rooting for them from somewhere out there.

Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin from Idaho were Steeler Fans. May they Rest in Peace and ALL the Victim’s get Justice. #Steelers #NFL

That's a wonderful sentiment!

I have seen several pics of these two in their Steelers gear. I wonder why a couple of Idaho kids were fans of a team so far away from home, most Idaho residents are Seattle Seahawks fans...
Im sure there no connection but has anyone thought about them liking/following a Pennsylvania team and BCK being from Pennsylvania?

 

[maskedwoman]

IMO, the defense could say BK had friends in the neighborhood-which may actually be true. He was tutoring someone from class who just happens to live in the neighborhood. Maybe BK was a DD ( drug dealer/designated driver) or a DDD (Door Dash Delivery). It’s hard to say, just because my wifi pings at the bank drive thru doesn’t mean I robbed the bank…..

I don't think they can say that without producing at least one friend and, I personally, would be flabbergasted to see BK produce any friends from that neighborhood. So far, no one has come forward self identifying as a friend he made since arriving at WSU. Other than students who disliked his performance at TA, there has just been the one guy from his apartment complex who said he seemed ok but avoided him because he was too hard to get away from. Even though I believe BK to be the murderer, I find Apartment Complex guy's statement sad, because clearly BK was hungry for human interaction.

It seems implausible that he might have just driven through on his way to somewhere else, like the excellent shopping in Idaho (ahem), because it's definitely a residential neighborhood. Several of the roads dead end. I checked google maps and no stores or restaurants come up in that area between I95 and the school.

As to the wifi, if his phone pings their wifi a dozen times at various times around the clock over a period of weeks, that is a lot more easily explained than to have it pinging their wifi only late at night or in the wee hours of the morning. Especially when his DNA is on a knife sheath found next to their dead bodies.

Usually wifi signal will reach around 150 feet. Through exterior walls and plumbing, it can be less. So, for his phone to ping their wifi, I don't think he could have been further away than roughly next door in either direction.

 

[CSIDreamer]

DM's room is at an interesting intersection. Directly to the left of her doorway, looking out, is the stairway leading up to the third floor. In front is the very short hallway leading to the kitchen and sliding glass door. To the right is the even shorter hallway leading to the living room through which the killer would have had to pass to get to and from X's room. The door opens inward, into her room, with the hinges on the living room side.

I've commented before I'd like to know which way that footprint was pointing. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

This makes sense and goes along with the neighbor of BK who said he suggested it was a "crime of passion". 'Crime Of Passion': Bryan Kohberger's Neighbor Reveals Chilling Conversation He Had With Accused Killer Just Days After University Of Idaho Massacre

So. I think this is an important point (and others seem to be making the same point).

The planning for these murders probably goes back a long way and it will be hard for anyone to discern exactly when it started, as BK is so disturbed.

But you are making a good case that BK was prepared, both in the execution of his crime and his attempts to evade detection, to choose a method of killing consistent with "crime of passion" and then planting clues online to support that. I do believe he was active on at least 3 social media platforms (Facebook; Reddit; 4Chan) after the commission of this crime.

What strikes me is that BK seems to know some things about U of ID that required him to go there and insinuate himself into student life in some way. Were some of those pings in Moscow due to his going over to hang out around the party scene? As he was choosing his victims, was he also spying and eavesdropping? Did he stalk their social media? How did he learn their names? Will be find that he knew the name of at least one occupant of 1122 King Road before the crime?

Even if he never had a real conversation with any of them, he could have been a heavy duty stalker - for the specific reason of being able to use social media post-crime to plant false narratives.

 

[CityKid]

Not that it matters, but it was Kaylee's sister who found the food truck video and the neighbor's ring camera video showing the time the two girls arrive home in a 'uber' car.

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

Thanks for the article! Did you see where the coroner said “I don’t think I’ve had another death by stabbing,” she added.” They need to bring in a coroner with more experience if she has never done an autopsy on a stabbing victim. The defense will have a field day with her during trial. Also...

www.websleuths.com

I remember her saying that. But it always struck me as odd that the police were at the house before any families were notified, without noticing or asking neighbors about whether they saw anything, or whether they had Ring/camera footage.

 

[turaj]

So. I think this is an important point (and others seem to be making the same point).

The planning for these murders probably goes back a long way and it will be hard for anyone to discern exactly when it started, as BK is so disturbed.

But you are making a good case that BK was prepared, both in the execution of his crime and his attempts to evade detection, to choose a method of killing consistent with "crime of passion" and then planting clues online to support that. I do believe he was active on at least 3 social media platforms (Facebook; Reddit; 4Chan) after the commission of this crime.

What strikes me is that BK seems to know some things about U of ID that required him to go there and insinuate himself into student life in some way. Were some of those pings in Moscow due to his going over to hang out around the party scene? As he was choosing his victims, was he also spying and eavesdropping? Did he stalk their social media? How did he learn their names? Will be find that he knew the name of at least one occupant of 1122 King Road before the crime?

Even if he never had a real conversation with any of them, he could have been a heavy duty stalker - for the specific reason of being able to use social media post-crime to plant false narratives.

per dateline last night there were parties at the home at 1122 every weekend. just the night prior to the murder there was a really big one that involved some 150 people coming and going. I don't think the cops were called on this one but who is to say BK was not there? With that many people coming and going anything is possible.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

That's a wonderful sentiment!

I have seen several pics of these two in their Steelers gear. I wonder why a couple of Idaho kids were fans of a team so far away from home, most Idaho residents are Seattle Seahawks fans...
Im sure there no connection but has anyone thought about them liking/following a Pennsylvania team and BCK being from Pennsylvania?

Perennially sad. #RaidersFan #JustWhenBaby

 

[10ofRods]

Oh no, if Xana survived at all, it would be so sad that 911 was not called right away.

Yes. I do think the roommates could see something horrible that next morning, even without opening the door. Did BK lock the door as he left? That could be another explanation. The friends who came over are able to get the door open (I believe two of them may be male), but it's not clear exactly why the surviving roommates did not open the door themselves (or maybe they did, perhaps even shutting it again - as SG describes their horror and one of them fainting):

Idaho victim's family speaks out about surviving roommate

THE father of Idaho victim Kaylee Goncalves has spoken out about a surviving roommate who “froze” in fear and failed to call 911 when she saw the suspected killer. Bryan Kohberger has b…

www.the-sun.com

What the two girls knew and saw before the 911 call is not clear to us, but I assume there's a good reason for that. I think the friends got there while the 911 call was still under way, but can't find the source of the information that one of the friends took the phone from the roommate (who was hysterical and unable to communicate with the 911 officer; the other roommate had fainted). That makes me think that they could at least see inside the room.

I should go back to the media thread and try and patch together what we know about that 911 call.

JMO.

 

[SophieRose]

DM's room is at an interesting intersection. Directly to the left of her doorway, looking out, is the stairway leading up to the third floor. In front is the very short hallway leading to the kitchen and sliding glass door. To the right is the even shorter hallway leading to the living room through which the killer would have had to pass to get to and from X's room. The door opens inward, into her room, with the hinges on the living room side.

Visual of Dylan's room.

Virtual Tour of 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho

Virtual Tour | In the early hours of November 13, 2022, a mass murder took pl... | 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho.

www.kuula.co

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Yes and no. My husband has worked both sides (medical malpractice) and he’s honest enough to not take cases that aren’t winnable based on the evidence. He’s defended hospitals and doctors as well as sued them/represented patients and families of dead patients. He tells patients when he doesn’t think they have a case, but a lot of times what happens to them is really really bad but it’s just not “bad enough” based on the evidence and the laws. He feels bad for them but doesn’t want them to waste their time and money when he knows they will lose. My point is, he can be honest. His dad and my dad are both doctors as are our siblings and and when he switched sides some weren’t as happy as others but there are some bad things that happen out there and people need representation. You just don’t hear about them. Like a doctor who removed 1/4th the towns gallbladders or accidents like leaving the oxygen tank on and setting a persons face on fire. An accident but still… or amputating the wrong leg
Stuff like that. You don’t hear much about it.

<modsnip: Name calling or derogatory terms for any case player is not allowed>

Public defenders do not have that luxury. They take the cases that are assigned to them, unless there is a conflict of interest. My husband was a PD and believed that his job was to give his clients the best representation in the system, even if the details fo the case are not in their favor. It's not lack of honesty to try to represent them fairly in the courts. Every one has a right to a trial and representation.

 

[ktm44]

Right, but on 20/20 someone stated after the gas station footage was found they looked again at apartment footage and then found Hyundai in the area at the timeframe of murders. Just seemed odd.

I don't feel that 20/20 is getting inside information from LE and are simply drawing ther own conclusions from police reports.

I'd be hard pressed to find it the article but I many threads ago, someone posted one citing a nearby apartment building that was asked for their camera footage in the very immediate aftermath.

I do believe that there was delay in asking businesses outside the immediate area to review their footage but at that point, they were pretty focused on the Elantra.

We also know that LE managed to find the recording of the 'thud' and barking dog and it feels like it was located fairly early on. It just seems too easy to assume that these are a bunch of Barney Fife's bumbling through and investigation.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

BK has an experienced and well respected public defender who is bringing in experts....this is far from an airtight case.

We'll see . . . if BK doesn't plead out first.

 

[10ofRods]

De Sales is a private Catholic university
about $30Kper year for in State depending on household income.

So if he took out student loans he would be in for $180K after six years.
What job has he been working that would off set his tuition? Or pay for these loans?

JMO

As long as he remained a student (which he did), he didn't have to repay.

 

[want2solveit]

Would he have been able to see them processing evidence from the murders?

One report, early on, mentioned that before moving the four bodies, their hands were 'bagged'. I hope so much there was some of BK's dna.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

IMO, the defense could say BK had friends in the neighborhood-which may actually be true. He was tutoring someone from class who just happens to live in the neighborhood. Maybe BK was a DD ( drug dealer/designated driver) or a DDD (Door Dash Delivery).

The defense can't just make up anything without evidence.

It’s hard to say, just because my wifi pings at the bank drive thru doesn’t mean I robbed the bank…..

It does if your DNA is on a gun left at the scene.