ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[ktm44]

SG said that one of them passed out so that’s good enough for me!

I’m not certain he has information on this and if he does, it shouldn’t be shared with the media.

 

[10ofRods]

That has never been clarified by LE or the 911 dispatcher.

No, only by SG.

 

[10ofRods]

I updated my post:

A death penalty qualified attorney's number one job is to keep their client off of death row. No defense attorney who wants to keep practicing would allow their death penalty client to plead guilty to murder without a plea deal in place that drops the death penalty.

If BK is charged with death specifications and wants to plead guilty, his attorney will work with prosecutors on a plea deal to drop the death penalty.

If prosecutors refused to drop the DP because it is what the families want, then BK could plead guilty and go straight to the Penalty Phase Trial. This is where the prosecution argues for the DP and the defense presents mitigating factors to get LWOP for the defendant.

Capital Cases have 2 trials The Guilt Phase Trial and then a separate Penalty Phase Trial.

Everyone on death row has been through a Penalty Phase trial.

A Plea of 'Guilty' — Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper — Crime Library

Danny Rolling, Daniel Rolling, Gainesville Ripper killed four women and two men in one weekend of horror in the University town of Gainesville.

www.crimelibrary.org

You answered one of my most nagging questions. Because part of me thinks that BK is going to play this all the way through in the most unusual manner he can possibly think of. It would be amazing if he went straight to penalty phase. I can't even imagine the stir that would cause - or what might come in at that point in the trial (surely...a lot of evidence? But we wouldn't have seen this kind of thing before in a major trial, I don't think).

Right up his alley. I do think that if they put the DP on the table and in front of a qualified jury, and then put BK on the stand, he might come across as crazy. He might think he can beat the DP on that point. He will talk a lot about his various health issues. And he probably doesn't care whether he gets it or not, he knows he's unlikely to be executed in Idaho for quite some time.

Then, he'll get to flex that he's a true gangster and on Death Row.

 

[Cindizzi]

The Idaho victim rights statute gives crime victims an explicit right to refuse to provide interviews to defense investigators. I'm not sure DM qualifies as a victim under the statute, but in most jurisdictions even ordinary witnesses are not obliged to talk to anyone unless and until they are compelled by court order (subpoena) to testify.

However, witnesses can give interviews to defense investigators voluntarily. Be assured, the PD's investigators will ask.

In the case summary on page 2 dated 1/3/2023 is a victim’s rights notification form for DM.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-011223.pdf

Source:

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[Cryptic]

I am now thinking he's sure to go to trial, although I suppose as more evidence comes in, his attorney may work to negotiate a plea deal. I think all the families would have to agree? Or is that wrong?

The answer to your question could be a murky:

- "No", in the technical sense. But...possibly "yes" in the practical sense.

In the technical sense, a district attorney does not have to consult with the families of a victim when entering into plea bargain agreements. Rather, he or she can make independent decisions with their consultation.

Or, a District Attorney can consult with the family(s) of a victim, and then initiate a plea bargain against their wishes if he or she feels that the totality of case circumstances support such a bargain.

But .... Judges can refuse plea bargains that they think are too lenient. A recent example of this is the husband / wife nuclear submarine spying duo who were offered an amazingly lenient plea bargain deal- which the judge rejected.

But .... Given the small town nature of the jurisdiction and the sensational aspect of the crime, the DA may well be "de facto" obligated to pay uhmm... "very close attention" to the families of victims before entering into any plea bargain.

Going technical sense again....

I dont think the DA would be de facto obligated to have full agreement from all families before entering into any plea bargain. But... I imagine that he or she would very much desire a solid majority of key family members behind any offer.

 

[ktm44]

He could have been told this info prior to the gag order.
Why he thinks his telling such info to the public is somehow helpful is beyond me.

Can you imagine the reaction of the DA and lead prosecutor every time they hear SG has an Interview? I bet they scramble to the TV to see what he has said

JMO

He concerns me and while I believe that quite often, he shares his opinions as facts, my family was denied justice and I hope his disclosures don’t rob the other families of a bit of emotional closure.

 

[al66pine]

Putting Cards on the Table. Truth Ruling the Day?

... finding justice...--it's about truth, honesty, and the facts.
I understand where LE would not want to release all their information during an investigation so they could reduce copycat crimes or keep from alerting the perp so he ran. But that's not the situation now. Lay your cards on the table and let the truth rule the day.
If Kohberger has a real defense (I doubt he does), he deserves the chance to use it to his fullest. History tells us that many inmates have been unfairly convicted and some even put to death. Yet, we still play games...

Snipped for focus. @GRT
"finding justice...it’s about truth, honesty, and the facts." Agreed.

So, you’re thinking LE should release all its investigation results NOW?

Sorry, LE is NOT obligated to release Investigation Results to the PUBLIC. Not pre-arrest, not post-arrest, not-pre-trial. Plain & simple.
LE provides its InvRes to Prosecutor.
Pre-trial, during Discovery stage, Prosecutor is legally obligated to provide most/virtually all those InvRes to Defendant.
After receiving InvRes, Defense (the accused & defense atty) analyze & decide what defense, if any, to put on at trial. [ETA. If Defense thinks more time is needed, defense can waive "speedy trial" provisions, etc.]

The time & place for both the State & Defendant to put cards on the table PUBLICLY is in COURT and at TRIAL. Then ultimately, truth should rule the day.

Many inmates have been convicted unfairly? Well, some, agreed. Put to death? Yes, has happened.

I could be missing something, but I don’t see that requiring LE to release its Investigation results to the PUBLIC at any time PRE-TRIAL would prevent that.

ETA: Speaking generally, not to ID. statute. imo jmo moo

 

[Recidivist]

You answered one of my most nagging questions. Because part of me thinks that BK is going to play this all the way through in the most unusual manner he can possibly think of. It would be amazing if he went straight to penalty phase. I can't even imagine the stir that would cause - or what might come in at that point in the trial (surely...a lot of evidence? But we wouldn't have seen this kind of thing before in a major trial, I don't think).

Right up his alley. I do think that if they put the DP on the table and in front of a qualified jury, and then put BK on the stand, he might come across as crazy. He might think he can beat the DP on that point. He will talk a lot about his various health issues. And he probably doesn't care whether he gets it or not, he knows he's unlikely to be executed in Idaho for quite some time.

Then, he'll get to flex that he's a true gangster and on Death Row.

It was very recently the Parkland shooter pleaded guilty, and the penalty phase for life or death followed.

 

[10ofRods]

It was very recently the Parkland shooter pleaded guilty, and the penalty phase for life or death followed.

Ah, I did not know that. Now I'm even more convinced that BK may want to go that route. He's seeking a unique and "top of the heap" recognition for his work in criminality.

IMO.

 

[Friday Fan]

Danny Rolling pled guilty to avoid a trial. He did so with the death penalty on the table.

I don't think BK will plead guilty. I believe he wants to be exonerated. JMO

A Plea of 'Guilty' — Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper — Crime Library

Danny Rolling, Daniel Rolling, Gainesville Ripper killed four women and two men in one weekend of horror in the University town of Gainesville.

www.crimelibrary.org

There are also lesser knowns, with long histories and baggage who just "want to get it over with". They know they will get the death penalty, but don't really care. Obviously, not BK's case.

 

[GRT]

I don't see it as game-playing at all.

In the beginning of a case, LE/prosecution holds all the cards. Every defendant has the right to know what is being put up against them, which you seem to think is a game. It's not, to me.

Eventually, every piece of evidence that LE wants to use at trial must be given to the defense. In theory, the defendant is entitled to all the evidence, but that does not include the conversations among lawyers or prosecutorial strategy. The defense has to come up with its own strategy, which is also not a game. A person's life is in the balance.

So, at every juncture, the prosecution must give over evidence, which is still incoming and will likely always be incoming, even if merely a trickle - all the way through trial.

DA's and LE are human, so they cannot be expected to provide every scrap of evidence at the same time. They organize it, label it, and then they give it over to the defense. There will be many in chambers (with the Judge) discussions about whether the evidence of each side can be used in court. This is also not a game.

Do you know of a system of Justice that doesn't do this? The ones I know that avoid this trial process, which is more or less balanced and put on a level playing field with both sides using and accessing the evidence, are not so great.

Literally reams have been written and studied concerning prosecutorial misconduct that involves withholding evidence that could benefit the accused.

I get it that LE and prosecutors (not necessarily in this case) badly want to catch the perps and lock them up. We all want that. No one wants a guilty defendant to go free. MOO

In some states, defendants can file a Brady Motion to try and get evidence the prosecution is withholding.

But, it's absolutely a game. And, when it comes to a trial--it also involves theatrics. MOO

I understand what's happening and why. I just think it's too bad that sort of stuff goes on. It might not go on everywhere, but it's common enough that innocent people have been wrongly convicted.

Perhaps if the punishments for playing these games were steeper, we'd see fewer of them. Again, I'm not saying that's happening in this specific case.

But, even if it's rare -- it's too frequent. MOO

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Dexter had his “Dark Passenger”.

Bryan Kohberger

In 2018 Bryan Kohberger wrote:

“An important aspect of my experience in Psi Beta involved raising awareness of hidden disabilities, which are not uncommon yet often misunderstood. The Hidden People Research Project is an example of what Psi Beta at NCC Monroe was geared toward starting. Students were educated about hidden disabilities, and this information was then applied by students in order to foster a reduction of harm on campus through increased awareness.”

 

[10ofRods]

Literally reams have been written and studied concerning prosecutorial misconduct that involves withholding evidence that could benefit the accused.

I get it that LE and prosecutors (not necessarily in this case) badly want to catch the perps and lock them up. We all want that. No one wants a guilty defendant to go free. MOO

In some states, defendants can file a Brady Motion to try and get evidence the prosecution is withholding.

But, it's absolutely a game. And, when it comes to a trial--it also involves theatrics. MOO

I understand what's happening and why. I just think it's too bad that sort of stuff goes on. It might not go on everywhere, but it's common enough that innocent people have been wrongly convicted.

Perhaps if the punishments for playing these games were steeper, we'd see fewer of them. Again, I'm not saying that's happening in this specific case.

But, even if it's rare -- it's too frequent. MOO

Well, in that case, I'll just add:

Everything is a game.

 

[GRT]

Well, in that case, I'll just add:

Everything is a game.

Okay. I'll agree with that.

I just think we (as a society) can and should do better.

 

[ktm44]

No, only by SG.

Did LE played the tape for him?

 

[wary]

Is DM an accuser though? She's a witness, not the plaintiff.

Regardless the below article states DM is expected to testify at the prelim hearing in June, hope she does!

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger trades intensity for fear in 2nd court appearance: body language expert

University of Idaho quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's body language in court is analyzed by Susan Constantine, a behavioral analyst who specializes in body language and detecting deception.

www.foxnews.com

In this context, anyone testifying against him is one of his accusers—it’s not as if the murder victims can.

 

[Walela]

Thank you! I thought Idaho had a two phase trial system anyway, but certainly do not know for sure.

I understand that the DP cannot be given without a trial. But if the DA and the families want the DP, then aren't you basically indicating that he has to go to trial? He cannot plead guilty to a DP case? It would indeed have to be bargained.

I am now thinking he's sure to go to trial, although I suppose as more evidence comes in, his attorney may work to negotiate a plea deal. I think all the families would have to agree? Or is that wrong?

The death penalty has been given before with a guilty plea in Idaho. State vs. Wood.

Excerpt from appeal State vs. Wood: "This is an appeal of a death sentence imposed upon James Edward Wood on a plea of guilty for the murder of Jeralee Underwood, an eleven-year-old girl." Link to Case Text

I seriously doubt if BK will enter a guilty plea at the preliminary hearing. IDK about after the hearing though.

I did find something interesting when heading down a rabbit hole. Evidently in Idaho, jurors can ask written questions of the witnesses in the trial. I knew they could ask questions during their deliberations but didn't know they could submit questions during the trial. I don't quite know what to think about that. Idaho Criminal Rule 30.1. Jury Questioning of Witness

 

[10ofRods]

Okay. I'll agree with that.

I just think we (as a society) can and should do better.

I'm not optimistic. In fact, I think modern society has peaked and is on the decline and we will have to fight hard, in our local battles, to make anything get better.

I pay more attention to news in another part of the planet than I have been doing here (this case is really the only ongoing news story I'm following). Just not strongly optimistic about things getting better. What I do see is that bureaucratic game playing (in my own field, of education) has reached new heights of ridiculousness. We could all be working on harder on the social problems that really matter, but most people just want a VR machine. In the US anyway.

 

[Cool Cats]

It was very recently the Parkland shooter pleaded guilty, and the penalty phase for life or death followed.

Normally when a death penalty defendant pleads guilty their death penalty qualified attorney works with prosecutors to get a plea deal where the DP is dropped in exchange for LWOP.

In RARE Cases a death penalty defendant will plead guilty but the prosecution still refuses to drop the DP Specifications.

So then these defendants skip the first trial which is the Guilt Phase Trial and then go to the second trial which is the Penalty Phase Trial.

Your example is a good one - the Parkland shooter - and another poster had a good one - Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper.

 

[Nila Aella]

The death penalty has been given before with a guilty plea in Idaho. State vs. Wood.

Excerpt from appeal State vs. Wood: "This is an appeal of a death sentence imposed upon James Edward Wood on a plea of guilty for the murder of Jeralee Underwood, an eleven-year-old girl." Link to Case Text

I seriously doubt if BK will enter a guilty plea at the preliminary hearing. IDK about after the hearing though.

I did find something interesting when heading down a rabbit hole. Evidently in Idaho, jurors can ask written questions of the witnesses in the trial. I knew they could ask questions during their deliberations but didn't know they could submit questions during the trial. I don't quite know what to think about that. Idaho Criminal Rule 30.1. Jury Questioning of Witness

I actually did that on a jury in Florida. While the witness was on the stand we could write a question and hand it to the baliff who would give it to the judge. The attorneys would then discuss the question with the judge (without us in the room) to determine if it would be asked and answered. JMO