ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

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I wonder if DM also smelled blood and that was part of why she was so traumatized. I remember coming home from work one day and knowing as soon as I opened the front door that our pregnant guinea pig had given birth because I could smell blood, even though our guinea pig was upstairs. And that was just a little bit of blood from a tiny animal.
I believe her subconscious knew something was terribly wrong, but I don’t think she had any idea what had happened. Never in her wildest dreams could she have imagined what lie ahead of her. JMO
 
I just put the same link up. I'm not seeing a "50 %" waiver on that link at all. In other words, I'm agreeing with you.
Thanks -- I get that funding / tuition situations for PhD programs have been in flux, but at least for the past 10 years, tuition waivers have been a standard for PhD programs from start to finish regardless of candidacy or in-state status in the first year.

I think the conversation began because of BK's potential need to seek additional work due to low TA stipend. This is probably still true, as I had to work additional jobs during my PhD, but I still received a stipend for my work at the institution (which was around 25k) and a tuition waiver for my entire program (6 years). I also moved to that state from elsewhere, and received a tuition waiver my first year as long as I attained in-state residency in my first year (same as WSU's policy).
 
All information on the 911 call is being withheld and LE has indicated it was for investigative reasons.

It has been discussed a few times over several threads but there has been no confirmation that anyone has passed out and passed out may have been a term used by dispatch for legal reasons and to protect the dignity of the deceased.

Very few people can legally determine death and frightened roommate or friends are not legally capable. In this case, LE would be able to have legally determined death but autopsies were required to establish manner and time of death.
Fight or flight kicked in and they ran; I’d still be running. JMO
 
De Sales is a private Catholic university
about $30Kper year for in State depending on household income.

So if he took out student loans he would be in for $180K after six years.
What job has he been working that would off set his tuition? Or pay for these loans?

JMO
If he was old enough to be financially emancipated from his parents then grants/loans would be based on his income so he might've gotten substantial student aid.
 
Thanks -- I get that funding / tuition situations for PhD programs have been in flux, but at least for the past 10 years, tuition waivers have been a standard for PhD programs from start to finish regardless of candidacy or in-state status in the first year.

I think the conversation began because of BK's potential need to seek additional work due to low TA stipend. This is probably still true, as I had to work additional jobs during my PhD, but I still received a stipend for my work at the institution (which was around 25k) and a tuition waiver for my entire program (6 years). I also moved to that state from elsewhere, and received a tuition waiver my first year as long as I attained in-state residency in my first year (same as WSU's policy).
100% lines up with the link we both are looking at then. JMHO
 
Not sure if anyone has posted this information yet, still catching up this morning. But the reference to Bethany is on page 5 of the affadavit posted below, first paragraph on page 5. Mentions phones of BF and DM (Bethany and Dylan).

Yes I remember that and I believe she has a bombshell to drop. Not sure why I think that, but she seems oddly missing from most conversations. JMO
 
What puzzles me is that BK has the right to plead guilty. Right? He can just stand up and say, "Yep, I did everything I'm accused of, I plead guilty."

But, AFAIK, he cannot get the DP without a trial, so even if he did admit guilt, he would still have to have a trial? I have no real clue, just spitballing, but your post made me think of that.
Here's what they did with the Joseph Duncan plea back in 2006 in Idaho. DA wanted to make sure Duncan got the death penalty for the horrendous 2005 murders of the Groene family and what he did to the children, so they charged him in federal court for the kidnapping and murder of Dylan Groene.


Douglas said the state of Idaho "gave up nothing" to ensure Duncan would never leave prison alive.

"We're going to give him (Duncan) to the Feds. If the Feds don't get the death penalty, I bring him back here and we'll have a sentencing procedure (for the death penalty)," Douglas said.

First Assistant U.S. Attorney Marc Haws said Monday the federal government will now "chart our path forward" as far as federal charges are concerned.

He did not disclose specifics but said indictments could be brought in connection with crimes committed in Idaho, Montana and elsewhere.

Haws reconfirmed that his office will be seeking the death penalty for Duncan.
 
Second every bit of that. That little department reminds me of The Little Engine That Could. They made it up the hill!
And Chief Fry is a rock star. :)
I don’t even have a problem with no danger to the community statement. Based on the crime scene, it did look like a personal attack. That’s what about 99% of us thought if I recall correctly. And I’m sure that the LE officers were dealing with shock and other emotions as well as everybody underestimating them. I said they would solve it because it was in their back yard so to speak and they were determined. They’ll probably be in therapy for years. JMO
 
If BK observed this house on multiple occasions, why did he only kill the people in 1 bedroom on the 2nd floor, skip the second bedroom and then move to the 3rd floor. Why not kill the people in both rooms on the 2nd floor? Did he have a reason to spare DM’s life?
I suspect that had Xana not happened to be up getting the Doordash order, her room would have also been passed by. Imo, it was just unfortunate timing for her and Ethan. That is only MOO, though. I have no actual evidence that would prove that.
 
Where did you pick up the idea that LE did not canvas for or collect local CCTV immediately? IMO that is incorrect. Can you link where this is stated in 20/20 or elsewhere?

ETA: Note, the PCA has LE canvassing for video/camera footage in the local neighbourhood very early in the investigation.
I agree that they did view footage early on but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack, but when the speeding car drew attention, they then reviewed the footage again and began to piece it together. JMO
 
This is a fascinating article written before the gag order by an author, Howard Blum, with outstanding credentials. Elsewhere he writes about the "perfect crime". Four important takeaways: 1) "unconscious person" is used as a catchall by 911 personnel serving the Moscow area for any serious situation where valuable time might be used up in questioning the caller; 2) when the first LE officers arrived there was absolute, unnatural silence out front, someone said just one word - "dead" - despite a number of people milling around; 3) the first officers were overwhelmed by the smell of blood from the front/north door onward; 4) Kaylee suffered substantially more vicious wounds than any of the others. Initially Blum called the dog "Morgan" but changed it to "Murphy" by the next day, and he speaks of streets at 3 AM which makes me think initial parts of the article were written before the 4-4:25 timeframe evolved. Really worth reading. Info here isn't available elsewhere and won't be for quite awhile. Blum is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair, was an investigative journalist for The New York Times and has won multiple awards for non-fiction. Not a hack! :) An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I
edit: typo
 
That's actually a faster notification time than my family got when someone was killed in a wreck. It took less than 5 hours LE to notify the family, despite there being 4 victim next of kin to determine and notify. For my family, it look nearly 7 hours, and we'd already figured it out on our then--it was nobody's fault--it's just part of the inherent chaos of the aftermath. It's unfortunate they learned about it from relatives first, but that doesn't mean LE was not doing their job. MOO
I don’t see what difference it makes? JMO
 
They didn't give specifics @10ofRods , just the usual "law enforcement sources", so make of it what you will. Personally, I think with their years of experience Dateline probably has reliable sources, but that's just my opinion.

According to Dateline, BK's Elantra was in a pile of dozens or hundreds of other Elantras until the genetic genealogy hit. The hit lead to a review of traffic footage in Pullman (the footage that led to a reevaluation of the Elantra's model year) and then BK's phone records.
But isn’t it interesting that neither 20/20 nor Dateline mentioned the lack of a front license plate on the video evidence of the white car? I had thought that was a significant piece of them tying BK to the crime and narrowing him down from the many other white Elantras.
 
When does the discovery phase begin?

On 20/20, they mentioned, iirc, that the discovery phase begins after the preliminary hearing. I believe Dateline said the opposite, i.e., that it begins now.

For the attorneys here, which is the case? I can see BK wanting to waive a speedy prelim if he's getting the dirt from the prosecution which he can use to devise his story and/or decide how to plead.
 

Do people who hear voices narrate things to themselves? I've never heard that.However, people who depersonalize themselves sometimes do (they speak about themselves in the third person sometimes or behave/speak as if they are observing themselves instead of being themselves).

MOO.
RSBM for clarity of my point.

In my own (unfortunate) experience after retraumatisation, I spoke about myself in the third person for a few weeks. I also have been through bouts of self-calming talk, though I don't think normally in the third person. More second-person, commands to myself about how to re-ground etc. I don't hear voices though. I am on the depersonalisation / derealisation spectrum (comorbid with cptsd) but not full-blown. I'm not sure if I'm adding anything helpful to your discussion, which was going on with dotta, or if I'm going OT. I can't seem to find her posts now. I'm certainly otherwise not like BK! No murders, no violence from me.

IMO IME JMO
 
Second every bit of that. That little department reminds me of The Little Engine That Could. They made it up the hill!
And Chief Fry is a rock star. :)
Nothing negative about the Moscow PD but this case from the looks of the PCA was FBI led and run. IMHO don't see a smallish local PD running familial genealogy, cell phone/wifi forensics, whisper stops and trailing a suspect through multiple states.
 
You answered one of my most nagging questions. Because part of me thinks that BK is going to play this all the way through in the most unusual manner he can possibly think of. It would be amazing if he went straight to penalty phase. I can't even imagine the stir that would cause - or what might come in at that point in the trial (surely...a lot of evidence? But we wouldn't have seen this kind of thing before in a major trial, I don't think).

Right up his alley. I do think that if they put the DP on the table and in front of a qualified jury, and then put BK on the stand, he might come across as crazy. He might think he can beat the DP on that point. He will talk a lot about his various health issues. And he probably doesn't care whether he gets it or not, he knows he's unlikely to be executed in Idaho for quite some time.

Then, he'll get to flex that he's a true gangster and on Death Row.

Usually you are the one who answers my questions! I have learned alot from you on other threads.

Many many factors come out in the Penalty Phase Trial, just about anything in the defendant's past can be used by both the prosecution and the defense. The defense would lean heavily on psychiatric factors, any signs in BK's past of mental illness. Psychologists and psychiatrists and a Mitigation Specialist would take the stand to testify.

IF he was in this situation, BK's family could testify for the defense. The prosecution might want to put a victim's family member on the stand but I have seen defense attorneys filing Motions against this stating that victim testimony is too prejudicial, same for crime scene photos. The judge would rule on who can testify and what photos can be used.

If BK is NOT charged with Death Penalty Specifications then he has nothing to lose by going to trial. If he wanted to get attention and cause a stir, as you pointed out, all he would have to do is take the stand in his own defense. Then everything he says will end up online for a world wide audience. Even if his trial were not televised the media would be allowed in the courtroom gallery to report on his every word. Even without taking the stand BK would get weeks and weeks of the media watching and talking about his every move and expression as they do now.

I believe the only possible reason that BK would even consider pleading guilty is if he is charged with Death Penalty Specifications and his attorneys convince him that the evidence is overwhelming against him and he will likely end up on death row. In this scenario he would be wise to seek a plea deal with prosecutors, in plea deals there is an exchange between the defendant and the State. The defendant agrees to plead guilty in exchange for the State dropping the DP, normally this means LWOP.

The prosecution always gets family input when a defendant wants to take a plea deal, especially in a Case like this, also, the judge has to accept the plea deal.

Even if BK knows he is unlikely to be put to death in Idaho for lack of drugs, I do not think he will want to be on death row. On death row he will be very isolated and cut off from working and participating in recreational and other activities. Also, it would put more restrictions on him communicating with the public, limiting his communication. There are always people who want to communicate with killers like him, even "killer fan clubs."

But no one needs to get upset if BK ends up in prison - off of death row - with a "murder fan club" reaching out to him.

Why?

Because the reality is that he will most likely be locked away in a maximum security unit where many hours are spent locked in your cell, possibly with roommates and no privacy.

The other reality is that I strongly believe he would have a target on his back and would have threats made against him and be at risk of being hurt or killed. So what would likely happen is that the prison would lock him up in protective custody ie...segregation, and he would be isolated in a "different kind of death row type situation."
 
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With respect, he was actually given the death penalty, he just died in his death row cell before the sentence was carried out. If he hadn't been given the death penalty, he wouldn't have had a death row cell. (not meant to be argumentative or insulting your opinions and posts are always enlightening)
moo

I didn't say otherwise. I know he was on Death Row.

But he never received the death penalty. He died of natural causes. Would they have carried out his sentence? Don't know. Idaho has its issues in that area, which I have posted about upthread.

I did not intend to say that this death row inmate wasn't given the death penalty - he was introduced by someone else as an example of someone getting the death penalty without a regular trial, that was the context.

No worries, though. I find your posts very enlightening as well and it's good to keep me on my toes.
 
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