ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[10ofRods]

Why 'thud' the trunk and not the car door as well. Only 1 thud.

Well, my trunk requires I slam it shut. My car door, I ease shut quietly every single time. Doesn't everyone? I mean, even in a hurry, grabbing the door and quietly shutting it is the default way to shut a car door.

(I'm still puzzled by the thud and am mainly spitballing on the topic).

A thud closer to the camera would sound louder.

 

[al66pine]

Accuser/Witness? In court, "live" or stmt. read aloud?
______________________________
Earlier post by @Sundog
"A defendant has the right to face his/her accuser." Yes.
_________________________
Another poster (sorry, forgot who, skimmed back but could not find) said ~ Prosecutor could have someone read aloud in court Dylan's stmt made to LE.

Is DM an accuser though? She's a witness, not the plaintiff...

^ snipped for focus^ @eloquence
In crim prosecutions in the US, "the accused shall have the right to... to be confronted with the witnesses against him..."*
A key purpose of the right to confrontation is to give criminal defendants an opportunity to cross-examine the witnesses against him.

Just general & oversimplified:
Say, prosecution calls Dylan M as a WITNESS to ask what she saw that a.m., she says man w. bushy eyebrows, mask, etc.
In cross examination, def atty can ask her:
--- was she wearing her Rx glasses/no glasses.
--- what lights were in room/hall where she saw him.
--- her condition (alcohol, drugs, Rx or recreational, etc).

But if Prosecutor has someone in court READ ALOUD her "STATEMENT" (man w eyebrows, mask, etc.) made to LE, and written down by LEO, defendant is being denied his 6th A. Rt., the right to CONFRONT the witness at trial, to ask questions ^ above that bear on her credibility re eyebrows, mask, etc.

And even when LE makes audio/video RECORDING that could be played in court, def. is still unable to confront witness.
Under some circumstances, depending on the specifics, a person's stmt. can be read aloud ---or an audio-video recording may be played--- and admitted in evidence in court, but imo not in this instance. Imo in this situation, it would be hearsay, and imo no exception to the hearsay rule would apply.

As always, welcoming clarification or correction, esp’ly from our legal professionals.
__________________________________________
*"Sixth Amendment
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-6/#:~:text=In%20all%20criminal%20prosecutions%2C%20the,of%20the%20accusation%3B%20to%20be

 

[debbiediablo]

I wrote my thoughts down a few days ago and then decided not to post what I was feeling. Then you post feelings that almost mirror mine. I have no answers.....here's what I was feeling



Not psychic or anything, but I usually at least have strong feelings about the defendant. The evidence thus far makes him look quite guilty but I'm not feeling my usual hatred toward him like I have with other murderers in the past. I don't know if reading the tat postings softened my emotions or what. This is a new experience for me and I don't understand my empathy towards him or is it that I'm not feeling his guilt as well? Things are just not adding up. There is much more to this than what I've seen so far. I think big surprises are coming or I'm just out in left field.

Me too, and it's similar takeaway I got from Steve Goncalves who was expecting a monster but came face-to-face with an ordinary guy. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

From WSU's Criminology department website:

Teaching Assistantships: Teaching Assistants are obligated to provide 20 hours of instruction-based service per week. The awarding of teaching assistantships is a very competitive process. There are two types of TAs: support and independent section TAs. Support TA positions assist a faculty member teaching a large course, usually with over 80 students. Independent section TAs teach their own class. All TAs should strive for the highest quality of instructional pedagogy and delivery of services to students. All grading and other responsibilities should be fulfilled thoughtfully and in a timely manne

The above states that the Criminology department's TA positions are 20 hours and therefore eligible for a full tuition waiver per the link your provided. Regarding residency of out of state students in the first year:

Departmental Funding: Students funded by the department with a Teaching Assistantships (TA) or Research Assistantships (RA) receive a specified stipend each month (for nine months), health insurance benefits, and an in-state tuition waiver (for WA state residents). Out-of-state tuition is waived the first year until the student establishes residency. (from the Criminology department's website).

Respectfully, what you are suggesting about WSU's stipend / tuition waiver is inaccurate. I appreciate your different experience, but as a recent PhD student, WSU's policies are standard and similar to my own experiences.

I'm merely questioning why the Criminology Department grad students seem to have a separate system of reimbursement.

It's very interesting to me.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Here you go.

Finances

Graduate Student Assistantships Assistantship appointments provide financial support to a graduate student who engages in teaching, research, and/or service. Most assistantships include a tuition waiver, health insurance, and monthly stipend. Graduate assistants are required to work 20 hours per...

gradschool.wsu.edu

That's for grad school in general. Specific programs can obviously obtain exceptions. Did Bryan have an exception? I don't know, I'd need to see his offer. In my own program, 8 of us got the tuition break, the rest did not (and were very few in number). At UC Berkeley, about 10 out 100 students in the linguistics or anthropology programs get tuition waivers, and the rest have to wait until they can TA - a year or more after they arrive.

This is up to the individual departments in those cases. But someone posted that the Criminology Program gave TA-ships and waivers to all - but I'm not sure they can circumvent the Chancellor's rules as mentioned in the above link (well, they can, if they have grant funding, I would think - with the department paying up the missing tuition for the student). I'm a little surprised that WSU's Criminology can do that - but I assume it's a small program. And there are definitely grants for research in Criminology. This basically means the profs are working at finding funding.

I've gave you the specifics on the Criminal Justice and Criminology program. Their guidelines are there. Their page says tuition waiver and that 20 hours of TA is an obligation. As far as what other schools do, I'm not sure I'm understanding how that would determine the policy of WSU. JMO

 

[Walela]

The impression I got from the PCA is that they think these sounds came from the house, because right after talking about the whimper and thud, they mention that the camera is 50 feet from XK room. MOO

I agree and would add that the positioning of the distorted audio paragraph between the paragraph detailing D.M. opening her door the 2nd time and the paragraph detailing D.M. opening her door the 3rd time is an additional indication LE thought that the sounds are related to the house. I suppose in the PH we will get to hear that audio.
jmo

 

[10ofRods]

He had a target. Everyone else was collateral damage getting out.

This is something I think is worth discussing. Thank you for bringing it up. Today's thread has raised so many interesting questions.

 

[acutename]

The impression I got from the PCA is that they think these sounds came from the house, because right after talking about the whimper and thud, they mention that the camera is 50 feet from XK room. MOO

the thud could have been E or X

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Well, my trunk requires I slam it shut. My car door, I ease shut quietly every single time. Doesn't everyone? I mean, even in a hurry, grabbing the door and quietly shutting it is the default way to shut a car door.

(I'm still puzzled by the thud and am mainly spitballing on the topic).

I firmly shut my car door everytime, not necessarily a Hulk-esque slam, but pretty close to it most of the time. What can I say - I don't know my own strength.

 

[ReyInVA]

This is a fascinating article written before the gag order by an author, Howard Blum, with outstanding credentials. Elsewhere he writes about the "perfect crime". Four important takeaways: 1) "unconscious person" is used as a catchall by 911 personnel serving the Moscow area for any serious situation where valuable time might be used up in questioning the caller; 2) when the first LE officers arrived there was absolute, unnatural silence out front, someone said just one word - "dead" - despite a number of people milling around; 3) the first officers were overwhelmed by the smell of blood from the front/north door onward; 4) Kaylee suffered substantially more vicious wounds than any of the others. Initially Blum called the dog "Morgan" but changed it to "Murphy" by the next day, and he speaks of streets at 3 AM which makes me think initial parts of the article were written before the 4-4:25 timeframe evolved. Really worth reading. Info here isn't available elsewhere and won't be for quite awhile. Blum is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair, was an investigative journalist for The New York Times and has won multiple awards for non-fiction. Not a hack! An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I
edit: typo

I read that article a while ago. At first I was like oh I can’t wait to share this but then I saw multiple errors in it so I didn’t trust it. Wondering if the statement about K’s injuries being more severe just comes from her dad’s statements rather than LE.

 

[acutename]

Well, my trunk requires I slam it shut. My car door, I ease shut quietly every single time. Doesn't everyone? I mean, even in a hurry, grabbing the door and quietly shutting it is the default way to shut a car door.

(I'm still puzzled by the thud and am mainly spitballing on the topic).

A thud closer to the camera would sound louder.

and I bet you do not peel out of a gravel driveway fast and turn so as to dig out a set of tire marks so.... haste makes noise?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I was wondering why he chose WSU from PA.
Maybe it was this lab? and the research they did from this lab?

JMO

I can think of a couple of reasons:
1) There are only a handful of universities with Ph.D programs in criminology.
2) Out of that handful of universities with Ph.D programs in criminology, WSU may have been the only one where he got accepted.

Prestige playing a part, too? It's the oldest department in the country.

About Us | Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

crmj.wsu.edu

 

[10ofRods]

could have been E or X

Yes - if they were thrown across the room, perhaps by a forceful kick. We discussed this a few threads back and most people were not fond of one of my hypotheses (that Xana could have been thrown or shoved) because a woman that size does not, in most people's view, create a "loud thud" when thrown. I've been thrown a few times, the only time there was any sound was when I hit the wall of a mobile home, a form of student housing. It wasn't a "thud."

When people pass out and fall over, there's no "loud thud."

But if a person is thrown hard against a wall - maybe?

A heavy object thrown or dropped from enough height is a thud. A larger piece of furniture pushed over.

But on audio files, dense audio objects can sound like thuds, when they wouldn't, to a human ear.

 

[layer]

Nothing negative about the Moscow PD but this case from the looks of the PCA was FBI led and run. IMHO don't see a smallish local PD running familial genealogy, cell phone/wifi forensics, whisper stops and trailing a suspect through multiple states.

This makes me question if you even bothered to read the PCA. For example, there isn't a word in it about running familial genealogy, wifi forensics, whisper stops, or trailing a suspect through multiple states.

The investigation was clearly led by Moscow PD CPL Brett Payne with the assistance of ISP and FBI. The video canvas of the community which resulted in multiple sightings of the white Elantra was initiated by the MPD, the search warrant for historical phone records was applied for and granted to CPL Brett Payne.

Additionally, a search warrant for historical CSLI prospective location information, and a Pen Register/Trap and Trace on the 8458 phone were applied for and granted to CPL Brett Payne in order to determine if BK had been stalking the victims going back to June 23, 2022.

The leather sheath was recovered by MPD, the DNA on it was located and processed by the Idaho State Lab. The trash in PA was also sent to the Idaho State Lab where the DNA recovered was found to match the suspect's male paternal profile within 99.998%.

 

[Recidivist]

Well, my trunk requires I slam it shut. My car door, I ease shut quietly every single time. Doesn't everyone? I mean, even in a hurry, grabbing the door and quietly shutting it is the default way to shut a car door.

(I'm still puzzled by the thud and am mainly spitballing on the topic).

hmm, I'm thinking the better default way would be to shut it with enough force to ensure it is properly shut. Quietly shutting the door seems more like trying to sneak away from your home. Get down the street a ways and then slam it shut.

 

[Boodles]

Under Pennsylvania law, there is no requirement for a front license plate.
.......
"No, Pennsylvania doesn’t require front license plates. In fact, front license plates were only issued for standard passenger vehicles between 1906 and 1943, then again between 1947 and 1952."
.......

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.......
However, in Washington state, you are required to have both front and back license plates.
According to Washington state law, a car must both have a front and back license plate on the car.
I can't find a site that isn't behind a paywall to support this, so I am JMOing this.

"BK applied to have his Pennsylvania license plates changed to Washington plates on November 18, 2022.
"On Nov. 18 he registered his car in Washington and received the Washington license plate CFB-8708 on Dec. 5, according to Washington State Department of Licensing records."

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger changed license plate five days after student slayings

The suspect in the grisly murders of four University of Idaho students switched his license plate five days after his car was spotted near the crime scene, according to state records and a newly unsealed case filing.

www.fox6now.com

JMO

Yes, that’s right. I knew that. What I meant was I thought they had video of the Elantra from the murder night showing that it didn’t have a front tag. Then when the WSU cops later spotted BKs Elantra in the parking lot, they found he was a PA student who had just registered his car a week after the murders, then obtaining dual WA state tags. I thought that was how they narrowed it down to him, ala, “aha, he didn't have a front tag that night like the car we saw in the videos.” (My imagined quote, not actual LE’s.)

Now I don’t recall whether LE explicitly stated this at some point, but they must have, because how else would I know this? But no one mentioned it. Wasn’t that an important clue?

 

[10ofRods]

and I bet you do not peel out of a gravel driveway fast and turn so as to dig out a set of tire marks so.... haste makes noise?

Ha. Well, no. I grew up with manual transmissions, various road conditions and so on. I can lay rubber with a manual with ease (people stare at me these days if I say that).

BK obviously did not. In keeping with "not ready to launch" but launched nonetheless.

Did LE played the tape for him?

I would not be surprised. I think the families should get those facts and evidence, and I think Chief Fry is a very humane person.

There's a version of this audio floating around in various places. I have no idea if it is actual. But it's possible that SG (as I would) tape recorded every bit of everything he got via phone or otherwise from LE.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Yes - if they were thrown across the room, perhaps by a forceful kick. We discussed this a few threads back and most people were not fond of one of my hypotheses (that Xana could have been thrown or shoved) because a woman that size does not, in most people's view, create a "loud thud" when thrown. I've been thrown a few times, the only time there was any sound was when I hit the wall of a mobile home, a form of student housing. It wasn't a "thud."

When people pass out and fall over, there's no "loud thud."

But if a person is thrown hard against a wall - maybe?

A heavy object thrown or dropped from enough height is a thud. A larger piece of furniture pushed over.

But on audio files, dense audio objects can sound like thuds, when they wouldn't, to a human ear.

I've had the misfortune of having hit the floor very hard on a few occasions - mostly not of my own volition - and you can rest assured that I made a very loud "thud." I think most anyone would, if they were forcibly slammed to the floor.

 

[10ofRods]

hmm, I'm thinking the better default way would be to shut it with enough force to ensure it is properly shut. Quietly shutting the door seems more like trying to sneak away from your home. Get down the street a ways and then slam it shut.

Yes, exactly. But a guy who TAKES HIS PHONE with him, and turns it off AFTER leaving home but while on the way, and then turns in back ON, after leaving the crime scene is not a well-organized criminal.

Further, he takes his own car and parades in front of various (very visible) neighborhood cameras. He turns the phone on in time to capture a very strange way of going back home - and then going BACK TO THE CRIME SCENE. Sheesh. Even beginner criminals know not to do that. IMO.

The thud remains a mystery.

 

[Which_pancake]

I agree and would add that the positioning of the distorted audio paragraph between the paragraph detailing D.M. opening her door the 2nd time and the paragraph detailing D.M. opening her door the 3rd time is an additional indication LE thought that the sounds are related to the house. I suppose in the PH we will get to hear that audio.
jmo

Oh that's a good point. I hadn't noticed that before.