ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

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If I’m laying in bed and hear a car trunk or car door slam I know exactly what I heard don’t you? But it wasn’t described as a car trunk or car door slam. It’s a “thud”. So IMO the thud was a fight/struggle/falling to floor/slamming against furniture/wall..etc
I’ve been present in carpeted areas where struggles between couples have taken place (don’t ask, lol. This sounds really violent and mysterious, but no one was hurt).

I wasn’t present in the same literal room, but I was passing by/came late to the situation.

One was a reception area, and one my own living room.

both women who were the unwanted subjects, wanted to know why no one heard the fights… again, as I said, it didn’t unfold like a movie; I had to walk by these situations.

…also, if you are primarily going by movie violence, it is often professionally overdubbed/enhanced after filming.

It doesn’t have that crisp artificial clarity.

Both times, it literally sounded like kids scuffling on a playground; or someone shuffling their feet back and forth over carpet, etc.

Nothing about it conveyed urgency.

Both times after the fact and before I had been briefed, I was like “Huh. That was weird”; and then I wondered if maybe the women in question merely thought in their minds they had protested verbally at length, and in reality were more worried at the thought of causing a ruckus - that whole “take up as little of a physical space in the world as possible/don’t make a fuss” trope. (Once I had noise canceling headphones on. Once I didn‘t. both times, I was preoccupied with my own self when the fights broke out.)
 
I read that article a while ago. At first I was like oh I can’t wait to share this but then I saw multiple errors in it so I didn’t trust it. Wondering if the statement about K’s injuries being more severe just comes from her dad’s statements rather than LE.
I saw one error, likely a typo, that was immediately corrected and one that might have been an error or maybe not, depending on when it was written and what he was referencing. I doubt Blum didn't perform due diligence in his research having spent more than a little time checking him out. (The article was so remarkable amidst so much drivel that I wanted to be sure!) Given he had personally interviewed the first officers into the crime scene, the author of the PCA, etc, I think he used firsthand information throughout. Blum worked for the Village Voice and is currently a contributing editor for Vanity Fair. His 2009 book American Lightning: Terror, Mystery and the Birth of Hollywood, and the Crime of the Century, about the 1910 bombing of the LA Times building, won an Edgar award for Best Fact Crime. While working for the New York Times he received two Pulitzer nominations for his investigating journalism which convinces me he's legit. Maybe even exceptional.
 
If there was a massive struggle, I would think it would have alerted DM and BF to something greater going on in the house. Especially with a loud thud that can be heard 50 feet away. Perhaps that is what made DM open the door a third time? Lots of dots still need to be connected! JMO

I thought that too, but why would he wait three minutes to then be seen leaving fast at 4:20? JMO
stripping off some clothing and stuffing it in a bag? wiping? changing shoes? IMO possible he left a bag of clothing somewhere and went back for it later to dispose of it separately?
 
Just an opinion based on my personal experience but, when people fall to the ground, there is barely any sound at all. Certainly not a thud that could be heard fifty feet away and around a corner.
I don't think we can outright discount the thud as coming from inside. I can certainly hear a thud from one end of our house when my granddaughter gets too rambunctious and falls on the wood floor at the other end, and she's almost 10. I remember seeing hard surfaces in the common areas. Do we know if the bedrooms had carpet, or were they also hard surfaces? Because when bodies slam down onto hard surfaces, elbows, knees and heads can hit hard.

It could even be that one of the victims tried to lock the door, but didn't get it closed all the way, he burst into the room, and they were propelled to the floor or against the wall. JMO
 
IMO, I learned from watching the Dateline episode that there was a party at the house on the Friday night previous to the murders with 150 people in attendance. BK could have attended the party and said something awkward to one of the girls and gotten thrown out or specifically BK could have something inappropriate to X and Ethan got involved. There could have been a triggering event at the party.
I remember Kaylee's mother saying early on that she had returned to Moscow to attend a party, never said it was at 1122.


The grieving parents said that Kaylee had just purchased a new Range Rover, and wanted to show it off to Mogen back in Moscow. She also had plans to attend a nearby party.
 
If his Elantra had not been caught on video, and he had not lost his sheath, they would probably be at a stand still.
I feel he was going to murder one person, but she had a friend over so he killed both, and then another roommate was in his way as he was trying to exit when he came back down the stairs, then her boyfriend stirred so he killed him too. He then went straight to get out.
Even if one person was the original target, he must have been prepared to kill anybody he came across. At that point anyone in the house would become targets. He must have seen the five cars parked in front so likely would have known the house was full. He also may have seen lights turned on inside and the doordash delivery. Yet he still went inside with the intention to kill people.
 
If I’m laying in bed and hear a car trunk or car door slam I know exactly what I heard don’t you? But it wasn’t described as a car trunk or car door slam. It’s a “thud”. So IMO the thud was a fight/struggle/falling to floor/slamming against furniture/wall..etc
It was heard on a "distorted audio" and described as a loud thud by whomever was listening to it. IMO, someone else could listen to that same distorted audio and describe the sound as a slam and someone else could listen to the distorted audio and describe it as a bump. IMO, until we can all hear that distorted audio for ourselves, we're not going to know what it is and maybe not even then will we know. Even if D.M. says those were the exact sounds she heard at the exact time she heard them, there will be audio experts brought in to assess the validity that those sounds could be picked up by that camera's audio.

jmo
 
For clarities sake regarding DM testfying.
The defense can call an eyewitness even if prosecution does not.
State law doesn't matter, due process clause of 6th Amendment guarantees the right.

moo
I'm wondering if anyone can help me with this question,
If the prosecution call her as a witness, I know the defense can cross examine but if the prosecution has already called her, can she defense still call her as a defense witness as well? I am assuming no.
 
IMO, what if there were one really really brilliant student who didn’t like BK and wanted to get back at him?
Then I think that brilliant student would have maybe short-sheeted BK's bed, or, if really miffed, let the air out of his car tires. I don't think that brilliant student would have secretly gathered BK's DNA, placed it on a knife sheath, then savagely murdered 4 people, leaving behind the sheath.
 
Sorry to go on about this, just for clarity, so if the defense call her but the Prosecution don't, then the defense cannot bring her police statement into evidence themselves at that point and question the witness in regards to that statement? Genuine question. I think I am understanding that only the prosecution can table the witness' statement to police. Correct?

If DM (survivor) is called by the defense, they can ask her "What did you see when you opened your bedroom door?", "What did you tell the police you saw?", "Had you been drinking?", "Had you been asleep?", "Why didn't you call 911?", etc.

But if her account to police is as indicated in the PCA (i.e., though limited, what she DID see matches BK), I don't see what the defense would gain from calling her. As someone else posted, it would be like kicking to your "own goal".

I think it's more likely the prosecution will put DM on its witness list and the defense will object that her testimony is more prejudicial--some jurors give undue weight to eyewitness testimony and DM's view of the intruder was restricted--than probative--i.e., useful, since she couldn't positively identify BK. I'm not a lawyer and I can't speculate as to how the judge will rule on such a motion.
 
Even if one person was the original target, he must have been prepared to kill anybody he came across. At that point anyone in the house would become targets. He must have seen the five cars parked in front so likely would have known the house was full. He also may have seen lights turned on inside and the doordash delivery. Yet he still went inside with the intention to kill people.
Yep, this is why I think it was spontaneous. Planning this and carrying it out on a night that is so active just doesn’t make sense. He would have been smarter to go on a weekday when they would have been more likely to be sound asleep and far fewer variables.
 
I'm wondering if anyone can help me with this question,
If the prosecution call her as a witness, I know the defense can cross examine but if the prosecution has already called her, can she defense still call her as a defense witness as well? I am assuming no.
Could they call her as a hostile witness?
 
IMO, what if there were one really really brilliant student who didn’t like BK and wanted to get back at him?
I imagine there were lots of students who didn't like him. There were apparently enough that complained about his grading that the professor gave them a platform to publicly voice their complaints to BK.

One student reportedly left the classroom angry after 'mansplaining' by BK.
 
If DM (survivor) is called by the defense, they can ask her "What did you see when you opened your bedroom door?", "What did you tell the police you saw?", "Had you been drinking?", "Had you been asleep?", "Why didn't you call 911?", etc.

But if her account to police is as indicated in the PCA (i.e., though limited, what she DID see matches BK), I don't see what the defense would gain from calling her. As someone else posted, it would be like kicking to your "own goal".

I think it's more likely the prosecution will put DM on its witness list and the defense will object that her testimony is more prejudicial--some jurors give undue weight to eyewitness testimony and DM's view of the intruder was restricted--than probative--i.e., useful, since she couldn't positively identify BK. I'm not a lawyer and I can't speculate as to how the judge will rule on such a motion.
Thank you. Someone answered the technical aspect of my question prior.
 
I wrote my thoughts down a few days ago and then decided not to post what I was feeling. Then you post feelings that almost mirror mine. I have no answers.....here's what I was feeling



Not psychic or anything, but I usually at least have strong feelings about the defendant. The evidence thus far makes him look quite guilty but I'm not feeling my usual hatred toward him like I have with other murderers in the past. I don't know if reading the tat postings softened my emotions or what. This is a new experience for me and I don't understand my empathy towards him or is it that I'm not feeling his guilt as well? Things are just not adding up. There is much more to this than what I've seen so far. I think big surprises are coming or I'm just out in left field.

I know what both of you mean, and the TapATalk posts he made at such a young age are heart-wrenching. The possibly neurological or neuro-psychiatric clinical features he described sound truly dreadful, and, if they were unabated through all the important and increasingly stressful intervening years up until now, I think that things were just too difficult for him to continue masquerading as ‘normal’.

What do we do with him? Idaho does not have an insanity defence (or it may be thought that he is quite sane and fit to plead).

On Insanity.

Denis Nilsen (ex army and former policeman) strangled a series of vulnerable homeless young men in his 1980’s London flat, then sat with them, enjoying having someone with him of an evening. Sometimes he lay with them, seeing something profound in the picture made.

Thereafter came the boiling of skilfully dismembered body parts and disposing of some down the drains.Dyno-Rod was called as the street drains became badly compromised and the smell was bad. The police were summoned as the numerous lumps of flesh, at first thought to be chicken, were deemed possibly human in origin.

Nilsen cooperated meekly with the police as they took him away.

Brian Masters wrote Nilsen’s story in his prize-winning ‘Killing for Company’, which included the trial. The opposing legal teams instructed their own psychiatrists, who presented diametrically opposed diagnoses. Where, Masters asked, is the highly prized objective psychiatric diagnostic truth? Was Nilsen insane or not?

Nilsen was adjudged not insane and died in prison a guilty man a few years ago.

Masters wrote that anyone who sits eating toast prior to dashing out to work at the unemployment office, while a human head is yet again boiling on the stove, is insane in his soul.

The book is frequently urged to be read by those studying psychiatry, and the backlash from some professionals could be, according to Storr (top psychiatrist), due to resentment at a different academic pointing out some uncomfortable truths.

Psychiatry does not have the answer to everything. Notions of the devil were interestingly explored in the book also. If he exists, he will be adept at presenting evil as attractive, while cleverly convincing many that he is but an imaginative construct, used by the guilty as an excuse for their own wholly human evil behaviour.

This ‘insanity of the soul’ (or whatever it is) I think needs to be expertly studied if it is to be understood.

Maybe more specialised brain scans will demonstrate brain lesions that can, (in a future time), be treated. Obviously, it would be better to prevent another young person progressing down this route.

It seems to be that some young men have difficulties living on their own, while simultaneously experiencing promotion problems at work because of their ‘awkward personalities’, as well as not being able easily to strike up informal rapport leading to romantic relationships.

In these two cases at least it would appear that external work stressors might have caused them to ‘snap’ and embark on murderous rages, the young and innocent being the victims.

Maybe we have to be more gentle when confronting people with perceived faults.

Sometimes, all a person has is their career, and being confronted publicly can rock their foundations.
 
Yep, this is why I think it was spontaneous. Planning this and carrying it out on a night that is so active just doesn’t make sense. He would have been smarter to go on a weekday when they would have been more likely to be sound asleep and far fewer variables.
Maybe he thought that after a big drinking/partying night they would all be asleep and defenseless.

It would be interesting to know which days of the week he had previously driven by the 12 times prior to the murders, and what he observed.
 
That does make sense to me but I am not a lawyer (if that wasn't totally obvious!). Do you know if the Defense is permitted to table/refer to or whatever Dylan's statement to police, even if the Prosecution do not?

Also not a lawyer, so everybody grab a grain of salt: if (survivor) DM gave LE a sworn affidavit, then it might be used if she were deceased by the time of trial. (There may be some other exceptions where prior testimony can be introduced, like if she were unavailable because she had fled the country, etc.)

Otherwise, I believe DM will have to be called by one side or the other (and I don't see why the defense would do so). The signer of the PCA can only testify that, yes, he wrote such and such in the PCA; he can't testify as to the truth of what he was told (hearsay), so I doubt a judge would allow him to testify at all.

Still not a lawyer. May very well have missed something.
 
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