ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
<modsnip>


Here's the link once again:


So, what that leads me to believe is that the criminology program has achieved some degree of outside funding. Whenever a program departs from minimum financial assistance to grad students, it's because they have self-sought additional funding.

Which brings me around to another point. By doing what he did, BK has also damaged the reputation of the grad program in general, and whoever his specific prof was, in particular. But the reputational damage to WSU Criminology program is significant.

IMO. They have the funds (apparently) to give full rides to their chosen few. Or not (there are many "special admissions exceptions" to grad school). Was BK one of the chosen few? Do we know?

Or was he admitted under the general rules? That's my question. He would have been really worried when his TA-ship went south if he was "chosen few" and blew his first year prof's expectations.

Financial aid, due to federal requirements, is always year to year. I've never seen an offer that wasn't. Well, certain chairs for professors are for life. Rare.
I've done some clicking around on various WSU department websites. I'll let you do your own research, but it seems like most departments (at the PhD level, and across disciplines) offer TA positions and, with them, tuition waivers, health insurance, and 9 month stipends (paid biweekly). This is again in line with my own experience at other US institutions.
Then WSU surely needs to update its grad program page (as do many other institutions). I am *very* surprised to hear that as second tier public institution (like the one where I work) would make this kind of promise.


Go down to jobs part. Where I work, the huge majority of doctoral candidates receive *no* aid (it's public tax money).
From WSU: Assistantship appointments provide financial support to a graduate student who engages in teaching, research, and/or service. Most assistantships include a tuition waiver, health insurance, and monthly stipend. Graduate assistants are required to work 20 hours per week during the semester in which they receive the assistantship. Departments and programs generally make assistantship offers during the admissions process; however, current students may be eligible for an assistantship in their program if funding is available. Students should contact their department chair and/or program director for more information.

More: Graduate assistants who maintain at least a half-time (20 hrs. /wk.) appointment are eligible for full tuition waivers. Students appointed a quarter time assistantship (10 hrs./wk.) are eligible for half tuition waivers. To qualify for a tuition waiver, students must reside within the state of Washington. Non-resident graduate students on assistantship appointments are eligible for a non-resident waiver for the out-of-state portion of tuition during the first year they are on assistantship appointment at WSU. During that first year, students are responsible for taking all necessary steps to establish legal residency in the state of Washington. If residency is not established, non-resident graduate students will be responsible for non-resident tuition after their first academic year. International students are provided an out-of-state tuition waiver with their assistantship appointment throughout their academic career.

From UC Riverside: UCR’s academic graduate students work part-time and typically receive total annual funding packages that average more than $38,000 annually or $12,868 quarterly. This includes nearly $22,000 in salary plus reimbursements for tuition and fees, health insurance premiums, and child care subsidies. (while the language is different, the takeaway is the same: stipend, tuition waiver, and insurance for graduate workers across disciplines for part-time work, in WSU's term, half-time)

This is the norm for PhD programs in the US. I don't see the point in engaging with this debate further -- if the reason for this conversation was whether or not BK sought additional work, the answer is: possibly. I still have yet to see a source that confirmed BK was being penalized for his performance as a TA, but if that is the case / the question at hand, I could definitely see his perceived failure as a TA influencing his self worth and perhaps factoring into the commission of the crime.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a fascinating article written before the gag order by an author, Howard Blum, with outstanding credentials. Elsewhere he writes about the "perfect crime". Four important takeaways: 1) "unconscious person" is used as a catchall by 911 personnel serving the Moscow area for any serious situation where valuable time might be used up in questioning the caller; 2) when the first LE officers arrived there was absolute, unnatural silence out front, someone said just one word - "dead" - despite a number of people milling around; 3) the first officers were overwhelmed by the smell of blood from the front/north door onward; 4) Kaylee suffered substantially more vicious wounds than any of the others. Initially Blum called the dog "Morgan" but changed it to "Murphy" by the next day, and he speaks of streets at 3 AM which makes me think initial parts of the article were written before the 4-4:25 timeframe evolved. Really worth reading. Info here isn't available elsewhere and won't be for quite awhile. Blum is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair, was an investigative journalist for The New York Times and has won multiple awards for non-fiction. Not a hack! :) An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I
edit: typo
That was masterfully written. I hope he has enough material to present at least a follow up. I even found some other articles that I want to read from there. Thank you!
 
If there was a massive struggle, I would think it would have alerted DM and BF to something greater going on in the house. Especially with a loud thud that can be heard 50 feet away. Perhaps that is what made DM open the door a third time? Lots of dots still need to be connected! JMO

I thought that too, but why would he wait three minutes to then be seen leaving fast at 4:20? JMO
I think the thud and the whimper had to have been outside. This was a loud and active house. Surely their neighbors couldn’t hear every sound from within that house, down to a whimper. It seems reasonable to me that he took 3 minutes to get back to his car, take off his bloody clothes, put them in the trunk, and then drive to the point where he was spotted on camera. The trunk would be the thud. The whimper could have been an animal.
 
Why 'thud' the trunk and not the car door as well. Only 1 thud.
If I’m laying in bed and hear a car trunk or car door slam I know exactly what I heard don’t you? But it wasn’t described as a car trunk or car door slam. It’s a “thud”. So IMO the thud was a fight/struggle/falling to floor/slamming against furniture/wall..etc
 
Then WSU surely needs to update its grad program page (as do many other institutions). I am *very* surprised to hear that as second tier public institution (like the one where I work) would make this kind of promise.


Go down to jobs part. Where I work, the huge majority of doctoral candidates receive *no* aid (it's public tax money).



As an aside, I've been thinking for awhile that if Bryan were in any way "brilliant," he would have been better off applying to The John Jay College of Criminal Justice in NYC.

They offer two Ph.D. Programs and the entire college, as its name testifies, is focused on Criminology.

IMO it would certainly have been easier on the family as it is so much closer to the Poconos area.

I didn't check if they have on-site housing, but I know people who live in the Poconos and commute daily to NYC for work. That would not be cost-effective for a student, I understand, but I wonder if his family ever considered it.

It's a very prestigious and renowned college which has educated many of the premier criminologists around the country.

I wonder if either Bryan couldn't cut it scholastically, or had his reasons to want to be far from home.

He would've blended in more in NYC where we largely ignore others' eccentricities, but I must say I'm relieved he wasn't here.

Just some speculation.
 
Just an opinion based on my personal experience but, when people fall to the ground, there is barely any sound at all. Certainly not a thud that could be heard fifty feet away and around a corner.
I largely agree.

when you are losing consciousness (fainting etc), you’re not falling a long way, nor are you falling with particular force… maybe someone falling and turning end over end down a staircase or similar sounds louder.

But 50 feet away, I can’t imagine much outside of a gunshot carrying that auditorily far.
 
There were at least two footprints.
I‘ve seen an image of LE taking a picture of a footprint outside the home.
The PCA describes a latent footprint inside the home on the floor outside DM’s room.

My question is, Why one latent footprint And not two?
Did that shoe hit the mud outside and track it into the house?
Did that shoe step in blood?
From what I have gathered...

There are also three categories of shoe prints that can be gathered from a crime scene: Latent, Patent & Plastic

Latent print is one that is not readily visible to the naked eye. This type is created through static charges between the sole or tread of the shoe and the surface. (Its not really helpful)

Patent are like if you have grease or blood on your shoe and leave a distinctive print on the surface

Plastic are like stepping in wet paint or thick mud and leaves an impression
 
Maybe not outside on the ground, but inside a house it can be loud.
Yet, this was an outdoor camera 50 feet away. I can hear a thud when my husband throws something like a big log in our trash out on the curb. The container amplifies the noise. If he throws the same log on the ground, I hear nothing.

Which is why it is so darned perplexing.
Why 'thud' the trunk and not the car door as well. Only 1 thud.

Car doors slamming have a specific, metallic sound (to my ears). When people arrive at my house and park on the street (30 feet away), the doors sound like...car doors, but the trunks are more nonspecific, more like a thud.

I'm just trying to puzzle out the language. It's possible it's just the word that came to some LEO's mind at the time of the PCA. A "noise."
From WSU's Criminology department website:

Teaching Assistantships: Teaching Assistants are obligated to provide 20 hours of instruction-based service per week. The awarding of teaching assistantships is a very competitive process. There are two types of TAs: support and independent section TAs. Support TA positions assist a faculty member teaching a large course, usually with over 80 students. Independent section TAs teach their own class. All TAs should strive for the highest quality of instructional pedagogy and delivery of services to students. All grading and other responsibilities should be fulfilled thoughtfully and in a timely manne

The above states that the Criminology department's TA positions are 20 hours and therefore eligible for a full tuition waiver per the link your provided. Regarding residency of out of state students in the first year:

Departmental Funding: Students funded by the department with a Teaching Assistantships (TA) or Research Assistantships (RA) receive a specified stipend each month (for nine months), health insurance benefits, and an in-state tuition waiver (for WA state residents). Out-of-state tuition is waived the first year until the student establishes residency. (from the Criminology department's website).

Respectfully, what you are suggesting about WSU's stipend / tuition waiver is inaccurate. I appreciate your different experience, but as a recent PhD student, WSU's policies are standard and similar to my own experiences.

Well yes, it's standard for some programs to have enough money to fund this kind of thing. So I give in - he had full tuition waiver. Which he stood to lose if no one wanted him as a 20% TA (and now I doubt the academic integrity of such a program, sorry, but WSU itself doesn't give full tuition waivers to every single grad student, IMO, and you'd need to show that their overall policies are not being followed, because it's definitely an important issue for accreditation (and rankings).

Do you have any evidence that every program at WSU gives that full waiver in first year? You've established for me that criminology does. Does English?

Looks like it's "funded by department." So while I shift my point about the impact of this issue on this case, I will still stand by "this isn't good for the criminology department at WSU).

What you are referencing is departmental policy, not "WSU policy." IMO. I'm going to let it go (although it's very interesting to me) because I do not have the energy to research Washington's law regarding its public higher ed financing. But I do know the basics of it, as all states have to comply with federal guidelines to get federal loans at all. Or grants.

I'll agree that criminology is an exception to the published policy on the WSU website. They have outside funding, IMO.
 
I want to meet that person that jumped off the balcony and landed on one foot.

JMO
IMO, I’m not saying they landed on one foot LOL . I thought that there was somebody hiding on the third floor , already in place, when BK came over and it was this sinister person that jumped off the balcony from KGs bedroom
 
If his Elantra had not been caught on video, and he had not lost his sheath, they would probably be at a stand still.
I feel he was going to murder one person, but she had a friend over so he killed both, and then another roommate was in his way as he was trying to exit when he came back down the stairs, then her boyfriend stirred so he killed him too. He then went straight to get out.
 
I think the thud and the whimper had to have been outside. This was a loud and active house. Surely their neighbors couldn’t hear every sound from within that house, down to a whimper. It seems reasonable to me that he took 3 minutes to get back to his car, take off his bloody clothes, put them in the trunk, and then drive to the point where he was spotted on camera. The trunk would be the thud. The whimper could have been an animal.
In a house during the precise time of 4 people getting brutally murdered with a knife, there is a thud and whimper heard from someone inside the house who opens her bedroom door. The thud and whimper a car and an animal? I don’t think so. I think it related specifically to what was happening inside the house. Moo
 
I firmly shut my car door everytime, not necessarily a Hulk-esque slam, but pretty close to it most of the time. What can I say - I don't know my own strength.

I can't seem to stop myself from slamming car doors. I don't know why, but it takes some serious effort on my part not to slam them. And it only got worse after driving a full size truck for 11 years. A lot more weight to move. Now, I can really rock a car when I shut the door. LOL
 
Yet, this was an outdoor camera 50 feet away. I can hear a thud when my husband throws something like a big log in our trash out on the curb. The container amplifies the noise. If he throws the same log on the ground, I hear nothing.

Which is why it is so darned perplexing.


Car doors slamming have a specific, metallic sound (to my ears). When people arrive at my house and park on the street (30 feet away), the doors sound like...car doors, but the trunks are more nonspecific, more like a thud.

I'm just trying to puzzle out the language. It's possible it's just the word that came to some LEO's mind at the time of the PCA. A "noise."


Well yes, it's standard for some programs to have enough money to fund this kind of thing. So I give in - he had full tuition waiver. Which he stood to lose if no one wanted him as a 20% TA (and now I doubt the academic integrity of such a program, sorry, but WSU itself doesn't give full tuition waivers to every single grad student, IMO, and you'd need to show that their overall policies are not being followed, because it's definitely an important issue for accreditation (and rankings).

Do you have any evidence that every program at WSU gives that full waiver in first year? You've established for me that criminology does. Does English?

Looks like it's "funded by department." So while I shift my point about the impact of this issue on this case, I will still stand by "this isn't good for the criminology department at WSU).

What you are referencing is departmental policy, not "WSU policy." IMO. I'm going to let it go (although it's very interesting to me) because I do not have the energy to research Washington's law regarding its public higher ed financing. But I do know the basics of it, as all states have to comply with federal guidelines to get federal loans at all. Or grants.

I'll agree that criminology is an exception to the published policy on the WSU website. They have outside funding, IMO.
I did actually look into English at WSU, and the answer is yes! More info here.

In my quoted post, I was linking WSU's general policy on graduate stipends / tuition waiver, which suggests this was the norm across departments (although I'm sure there are exceptions, and the English department website linked above has different language regarding stipends and waivers. They still have them, though, and I quoted the general website intentionally in that previous post).

While I didn't attend WSU, I have never heard of a US institution with a "fully funded" PhD program (which is, to say, most of them these days) that does not include a tuition waiver for the first year, even if a student has moved from out of state.
 

As an aside, I've been thinking for awhile that if Bryan were in any way "brilliant," he would have been better off applying to The John Jay College of Criminal Justice in NYC.

They offer two Ph.D. Programs and the entire college, as its name testifies, is focused on Criminology.

IMO it would certainly have been easier on the family as it is so much closer to the Poconos area.

I didn't check if they have on-site housing, but I know people who live in the Poconos and commute daily to NYC for work. That would not be cost-effective for a student, I understand, but I wonder if his family ever considered it.

It's a very prestigious and renowned college which has educated many of the premier criminologists around the country.

I wonder if either Bryan couldn't cut it scholastically, or had his reasons to want to be far from home.

He would've blended in more in NYC where people ignore others' eccentricities, but I must say I'm relieved he wasn't here.

Just some speculation.

Well, yes, of course. It's a (much) higher ranked program with way better employment rankings after completion.

But, with a co-terminal Master's degree from DeSales and no relevant work experience (security guard doesn't do it - internships and jobs with actual agencies does it), he couldn't do that.

I will bet a month of lunch money that Bryan did apply to Jay but didn't get in. SPECULATION. We will never know.

I'm talking standard deviations from the mean when I speak of rankings.
 
as I understood it the 911 call for for a roommate who was "unconscious". If that is the case that was the initial impression until they started looking around and others got there. Apparently one roommate passed out..at this point neighbors involved. That whole story has not been told in detail and hopefully will not until trial.
It doesn't make sense....
Did someone just stumble upon an "unconscious" roommate? There are four stabbed people and they are calling about a roommate who possibly fainted??

Did a roommate call a friend over and didn't tell them what happened?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
58
Guests online
2,684
Total visitors
2,742

Forum statistics

Threads
603,299
Messages
18,154,576
Members
231,702
Latest member
Rav17en
Back
Top