ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[jcamh]

Exactly. Except per the PCA, we know DM woke up and was awake and seeing an intruder around 4:20 a.m. (Yes, it's hearsay at the moment as a legal technicality, but I think most of us believe it is what she told LE.)

But I think she fell asleep and slept until 12 noon as any college student would do after a big day and night of parties.

 

[Waddles]

I haven't posted in a while, but have been thinking about the case. The longer I think and have digested the case, it is my opinion at this time that BK intended to kill only one person that morning, and that was Maddie. Kaylee had moved out, so I don't think he expected her to be there. He'd been watching for some time, so I think he was pretty sure of their movements. I think he had somehow become obsessed with Maddie and chose her as a target. Perhaps he had propositioned her and she rebuffed him - she had a serious boyfriend.

I think he was surprised to find that she wasn't alone in her bed that night. I think he just felt he was going to go in there and do whatever, likely hold a knife to her throat and rape her. But his plan went awry. When confronted with two girls in the bed, he panicked and as they awoke, he decided to kill them.

I think he was going to leave after that, thinking he'd get away into the night. But Xana saw him so he went after her and had to kill her and Ethan as well. I honestly do not think he saw DM. He panicked and ran out.

The reason I feel this way is for a couple of reasons. First of all, most first time killers don't try to kill 4 people all at once. They would start out slow and work their way up. Also, if you are going to kill a whole bunch of people in one house, why stop at 4? Why not search every room and get them all? I think he meant to go in and harm and/or kill Maddie and the rest just happened.

This really makes a lot of sense and has shifted my thinking from him trying to do one big show off murder and get away with it as was his fantasy.

 

[Tobiano8th]

I read more on the roommate seeing someone in the house at 4 am or so

It seems to me it might have been weird and somewhat scary

But,
1) big party house... Lots of people coming and going often, sometimes strange straggler types
2) seemed to be conversing with roommate so you think that person knows him
3) mask might just mean going to cold exterior
4) person, even if causing trouble, was leaving
5) do the police want to hear about this? Also, don't want to hear from party house late Saturday night? And 6) what exactly are you reporting ?
7) dynamics of bugging roommate at 4 am over likely nothing

I don't think she was too scared to phone police... She undoubtedly would have phoned police if she saw dead money

Basically, strange event.... But he's left and it's 4 am... I can see her phoning BF at 4 am. But if she had one, good chance he would have been there already

 

[drmrgrl]

That's a wonderful sentiment!

I have seen several pics of these two in their Steelers gear. I wonder why a couple of Idaho kids were fans of a team so far away from home, most Idaho residents are Seattle Seahawks fans...
Im sure there no connection but has anyone thought about them liking/following a Pennsylvania team and BCK being from Pennsylvania?

IMO. Maybe BK liked the Eagles?

 

[AngTxGal]

I think the thud and the whimper had to have been outside. This was a loud and active house. Surely their neighbors couldn’t hear every sound from within that house, down to a whimper. It seems reasonable to me that he took 3 minutes to get back to his car, take off his bloody clothes, put them in the trunk, and then drive to the point where he was spotted on camera. The trunk would be the thud. The whimper could have been an animal.

I’m thinking LE likely listened to more of the recording that just the time 4-4:20AM.
If the recording is filled with sounds of animals and cars and such, who knows what this sounds was Or where it was from As it woudl blend in with all other sounds.
but it didn’t to the FBI
These sounds must have stood out as different from what is typically heard on the recordings- If LE chose this as one piece to be mentioned on PCA, they are significant

JMO

 

[jepop]

I read more on the roommate seeing someone in the house at 4 am or so

It seems to me it might have been weird and somewhat scary

But,
1) big party house... Lots of people coming and going often, sometimes strange straggler types
2) seemed to be conversing with roommate so you think that person knows him
3) mask might just mean going to cold exterior
4) person, even if causing trouble, was leaving
5) do the police want to hear about this? Also, don't want to hear from party house late Saturday night? And 6) what exactly are you reporting ?
7) dynamics of bugging roommate at 4 am over likely nothing

I don't think she was too scared to phone police... She undoubtedly would have phoned police if she saw dead money

Basically, strange event.... But he's left and it's 4 am... I can see her phoning BF at 4 am. But if she had one, good chance he would have been there already

Thanks for summarising, this is my view almost entirely to the letter. We're all guilty of hindsight bias at one time or other. I think the roomate DM has had alot of that unintentionally applied to her in discussions about what she did and did not do that early morning. MOO

 

[Tsin Kletzin]

I haven't posted in a while, but have been thinking about the case. The longer I think and have digested the case, it is my opinion at this time that BK intended to kill only one person that morning, and that was Maddie. Kaylee had moved out, so I don't think he expected her to be there. He'd been watching for some time, so I think he was pretty sure of their movements. I think he had somehow become obsessed with Maddie and chose her as a target. Perhaps he had propositioned her and she rebuffed him - she had a serious boyfriend.

I think he was surprised to find that she wasn't alone in her bed that night. I think he just felt he was going to go in there and do whatever, likely hold a knife to her throat and rape her. But his plan went awry. When confronted with two girls in the bed, he panicked and as they awoke, he decided to kill them.

I think he was going to leave after that, thinking he'd get away into the night. But Xana saw him so he went after her and had to kill her and Ethan as well. I honestly do not think he saw DM. He panicked and ran out.

The reason I feel this way is for a couple of reasons. First of all, most first time killers don't try to kill 4 people all at once. They would start out slow and work their way up. Also, if you are going to kill a whole bunch of people in one house, why stop at 4? Why not search every room and get them all? I think he meant to go in and harm and/or kill Maddie and the rest just happened.

Or…was it Kaylee that was his target?

How closely was BK surveilling the house / girls? Did BK know Kaylee was moving out and his opportunities for this attack were narrowing? The girls were active on social media. Was Kaylee announcing each step she was taking in her life, announcing her move and that her time in Moscow Idaho was coming to end? Would this explain the sloppiness of this crime, that BK felt an urgency to get it done or lose the chance forever?

It appears he knew exactly where to go in the oddly designed house. Could he have been watching them from the back of the house as they readied for bed? Could he have watched the lights go out in that room and then sought the best place to park that provided the fastest exit?

It’s been reported Kaylee took the brunt of the attack upstairs. She was “gouged” from reports. When BK entered the room did he first identify which was which before starting this despicable act?

After killing Kaylee and Maddie upstairs he meets Xana in her living area and backs her into the bedroom where he kills her and Ethan, but that was never part of the plan. If there was never a confrontation after the initial killings, neither Xana or Ethan would’ve been murdered. He did not see Dylan when leaving or she would have met with the same fate.

I’ve no idea about any of this, of course. Maddie could have been the intended target. I do find it odd but that the murders took place at a time when Kaylee was moving out and tend to think that was no coincidence.

 

[Strong1]

I still can't get past the feeling that there was someone else involved. Not sure why. Maybe an accomplice, lookout, driver, or someone helped with the planning. Just can't shake it.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not picking on the OP, the following applies to all of us!

Though not a lawyer I worked at law firms for decades. Every lawyer I know says we all watch too many crime shows on TV! Such shows have plots where the first suspect is always innocent and the most unlikely POI is always the culprit.

Those of us who have been jurors have had to avoid thinking of fictional narratives as part of our "general experience".

Luckily, most of the shows, at least the ones I have watched, were made in pre-DNA era. I can only imagine what twisted TV plots can be created using the DNA.

 

[debbiediablo]

Yes, that was the first scenario I considered. Or the deliver could have occurred while BK was upstairs and he encountered DM on his way to her bedroom.

LE might be withholding the exact time for a reason. Only BK knows whether he saw the delivery person.

Either way he would have known entering a house with potentially six residents would have been a risk. Especially college kids who might be awake at any hour on a weekend.

I think he was determined to commit the crimes that night. In his mind it might have been his last chance before everyone went home for Christmas break.

He might have been particularly brazen because he didn't care much if he got caught. Since he studied criminology he probably knew it would only be a matter of time before police came knocking at his door.

I agree. Sometimes when a lot of time (maybe a decade?!?!) is spent on recognizing and trying to rationalize these desires/reaching for courage/planning/preparing/getting adrenalin ramped up... sometimes there is no option to go home and wait for another day. Aside from obvious reasons like Kaylee was heading for a new job in TX and occupancy of the murder house would change second semester, there's the sense of the time no longer being imminent, the time becomes now ....

 

[Telltale]

My take on it is that she got shocked by a weird dude in the house, but rationalised, passed out and work up at noon.

From memory she heard some muffled banging, one of the girls saying 'theres someone here?' and some muffled crying noises after. Then she saw a guy with a lower face mask walk past her and go out the sliding door.

Now in hindsight and on here that seems insanely sketchy etc.

However this was a university housemate situation. People were likely coming and going all hours, half you hardly recognise.
-  They had all been out separately and been drinking so she probably wasn't clear on how the night had gone, or who had come back.
- Seems like the dog didn't bark - and she probably heard two roomates getting their food not long before.
- She heard hardly any noise, most everyone would expect something like this to be a serious struggle, or at least some screaming . Who could imagine there wouldn't be, even for a drunken fight?
- She knew he was coming from the direction of rooms with girls with boyfriends. She had heard whispers concerned someone was there, then at some point what was probably muffled movements on a bed, thumping etc (which less be honest could likely have sounded like sex) then at some point, muffled cryingish noises. Then a guy causally walks past her and left.

Now all together in hindsight you go omg rapist at the least! But it's insanely rare for someone to literally sneak into a full house to rape (or murder) someone. Whether or not she knew of them repeatedly calling Maddie's ex or not, either way, this being a uni-house sneaking weird guys back for awkward hookup/cheating and some drunk crying after wouldn't be a difficult conclusion.

She probably knew it was two to a bed and figured she didn't want to deal with drunk boy drama tonight. Probably feeling it herself as well.

He casually walked out an left. Yeah he was wearing a mask, but it could easily have been a COVID mask or a scarf.

All in all I can see her making an assumption that will haunt her forever.

 

[jepop]

My take on it is that she got shocked by a weird dude in the house, but rationalised, passed out and work up at noon.

From memory she heard some muffled banging, one of the girls saying 'theres someone here?' and some muffled crying noises after. Then she saw a guy with a lower face mask walk past her and go out the sliding door.

Now in hindsight and on here that seems insanely sketchy etc.

However this was a university housemate situation. People were likely coming and going all hours, half you hardly recognise.
-  They had all been out separately and been drinking so she probably wasn't clear on how the night had gone, or who had come back.
- Seems like the dog didn't bark - and she probably heard two roomates getting their food not long before.
- She heard hardly any noise, most everyone would expect something like this to be a serious struggle, or at least some screaming . Who could imagine there wouldn't be, even for a drunken fight?
- She knew he was coming from the direction of rooms with girls with boyfriends. She had heard whispers concerned someone was there, then at some point what was probably muffled movements on a bed, thumping etc (which less be honest could likely have sounded like sex) then at some point, muffled cryingish noises. Then a guy causally walks past her and left.

Now all together in hindsight you go omg rapist at the least! But it's insanely rare for someone to literally sneak into a full house to rape (or murder) someone. Whether or not she knew of them repeatedly calling Maddie's ex or not, either way, this being a uni-house sneaking weird guys back for awkward hookup/cheating and some drunk crying after wouldn't be a difficult conclusion.

She probably knew it was two to a bed and figured she didn't want to deal with drunk boy drama tonight. Probably feeling it herself as well.

He casually walked out an left. Yeah he was wearing a mask, but it could easily have been a COVID mask or a scarf.

All in all I can see her making an assumption that will haunt her forever.

I hope she is not haunted forever as none of this is her fault on any level MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I agree that they did view footage early on but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack, but when the speeding car drew attention, they then reviewed the footage again and began to piece it together. JMO

The perp was driving the Elantra up and down the neighboring street a few times before pouncing and IIRC was caught on camera. At that time of night there likely wasn't much other traffic so close to the house.

 

[jepop]

The perp was driving the Elantra up and town the neighboring street a few times before pouncing and IIRC was caught on camera. At that time of night there likely wasn't much other traffic so close to the house.

Absolutely. And the PCA notes, specifically, that there was very little traffic and that the white sedan (later identified as suspect vehicle 1 after analysis and reconstriuction of canvassed local footage) stood out.

 

[indicolite22]

The night of the attack wasn't a party night so IMO the roommates didn't expect unannounced random people to drop in after everyone returned home late. The roommates were keeping each other's company. I wouldn't expect friendly visitors to be masked either.

 

[drmrgrl]

It's probably because of the conversations with multiple people there that were describing what they saw. It's the intimate descriptions of the crime scene that LE and prosecutor want to protect...at this time. The gag order will also keep the trial lawyers and witnesses from speaking about it too...hopefully until the trial.

Could there have been two separate 911 calls?

 

[debbiediablo]

I’ve been on similar self help sites 12-15 years ago, and there was a lot of oneupmanship and manipulation in play, particularly, in teen males.

I wondered about a somatic problem or attention-seeking or claims about his health that couldn't be ruled out by any lab tests or imaging. None of what BCK said convinced me he was truly sick. He may have been, but I'd like to see some medical records supporting these claims. Generally if a child is suffering and has time to write endless complaints online which requires adequate vision to read that screen for hours, then he should also be in a doctor's care. If I had VS I wouldn't be staring at a computer screen trying to decipher thousands of words... no more than a person experiencing a migraine would. MOO

 

[drmrgrl]

Would the public benefit from knowing the placement of bodies, nature and description of wounds or any other description of a crime scene?

At this point, SM super sleuths have damaged many innocent people’s reputations and I would fear how they would react after being handed information on the actual crime scene and other actual witnesses.

IMO, releasing the 911 call could taint the prospective jury pool

 

[jepop]

Yes, that’s right. I knew that. What I meant was I thought they had video of the Elantra from the murder night showing that it didn’t have a front tag. Then when the WSU cops later spotted BKs Elantra in the parking lot, they found he was a PA student who had just registered his car a week after the murders, then obtaining dual WA state tags. I thought that was how they narrowed it down to him, ala, “aha, he didn't have a front tag that night like the car we saw in the videos.” (My imagined quote, not actual LE’s.)

Now I don’t recall whether LE explicitly stated this at some point, but they must have, because how else would I know this? But no one mentioned it. Wasn’t that an important clue?

Yes, they had footage of "suspect vehicle 1" with no front plate visible at 3.26am on Indian Hill Drive going westwood, then at3.28am on Styner Street going westwood - east of Moscow, if IRRC from the PCA (I was looking at BK's possible route from Pullman to the house very carefully a few days ago!). LE may have more footage of the relevant vehicle which shows it had no front plate ofcouse, but deemed it uneccesaary to include in the PCA, which was soley constructed, IMO, to show the overall picture for initail establishment of probable cause. MOO

ETA: going westward not westwood..gosh

 

[jepop]

ITA

Upon first reading the Affidavit I entertained the possibility of the thud being the perp jumping off the balcony ( ridiculous I know) or him slamming his car door or trunk ( throwing bloody clothes, backpack or weapon in trunk) while escaping the scene.

However, after reading the Affidavit numerous times, it’s clear to me (JMO) that the thud came from inside the house.

The sounds picked up on neighbor security cam and then the suspect car seen leaving are approximately 3 minutes apart.
4:17 to 4:20

3 minutes sounds like nothing but I set a timer on my phone and it seems like forever!View attachment 395399View attachment 395400

yes, great thinking and analysis. Thank you!