ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[Nila Aella]

There was a Jack in the Box bag in the kitchen with XK's name on it, near the sink. Maybe that was a bag from a different day though?

Did DoorDash delivery person actually come up to the slider door and hand the food to someone? Or leave it somewhere outside near one of the doors? I'm wondering if BK was already in the house at that point... such a short time frame for so much to happen, and then the car was seen leaving the area at 4:20...

<moo>

There were two bags in the kitchen. The one by the sink and the one on the table.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for confirming! And very interesting nothing from them (yet)... Wonder if this is some weird strategy.

Their strategy seems to be fighting against the case going forward at the preliminary hearing.

Instead of just pleading not guilty as usually happens, the defense wants 6 months to gather evidence and 4-5 days to be scheduled for the hearing.

The preliminary hearing is where the prosecution presents enough evidence to the judge to show that there is enough evidence to move forward to trial, to show BK isn't being brought up on bogus charges.

Apparently, the defense wants to fight against the case moving forward to trial.

 

[renarde]

There were two bags in the kitchen. The one by the sink and the one on the table.

JMO




View attachment 400260View attachment 400258

Interesting. I didn't realize there was another bag in the kitchen... So many Jacks in this story... <moo>

 

[acutename]

I would greatly appreciate a lawyer weighing in on this question. For me, I try to take things in order. Because of how things unfolded, they arrested him before he had a lawyer, and before they interviewed him at all, so he never had a chance to provide an alibi that might have quietly redirected their investigation. If they have the wrong guy, it's going to be messy all the way around. 100%.

I'm also assuming AT met with BK before the hearing that day, even if for just a few minutes. If I were arrested for a murder I didn't do and had an alibi, the first words out of my mouth to my lawyer would be "For the love of God, I didn't do this. I have an alibi. Please help me!". If he gave her an unshakable alibi, I can't see AT saying "Great, that will really torpedo their case when we get into court in three years. Sit tight now." To me, she has an obligation to go to LE and say "I have something to check out and it's in everyone's best interests to give me a few hours before we all go into court on camera." If it checks out, I think they have to release him.

Now, if LE uncovered information on their own (after he's arrested) that points to someone else being responsible? I think that's the stuff that gives LE nightmares. If they are honorable and good at their jobs, I think they chase that down like crazy. And if it checks out, they have to release him. It would be discoverable, right? If they let him rot in jail with evidence in hand that excludes him as a suspect, he eventually sues everyone's butts off. I certainly would in his situation.

Every lawyer on here may show up and tell me I'm an idiot, but that's what I think. MOOooo

Established by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1963, the Brady Rule is intended to help ensure that criminal defendants receive a fair trial. Under this rule, prosecutors have an obligation to disclose all “exculpatory” evidence that is “material” to a defendant's case.Jun 29, 2022

The Brady Rule Entitles Criminal Defendants to All​

Did BK enter the house before or after the Door Dash delivery?

Could Door Dash delivery person have seen BK's car? Driving by on the same street? Or already parked? Dash cam maybe?

If BK entered the house (before or even) after the DD delivery, how did he get past XK to go upstairs? Was she in her room at that point or in the common area?

<moo>

I have begun to think that DD went to the front door; XK went to get her bag, BK went through the slider and ran upstairs.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I find it problematic to assert that only guilty people lawyer up. There are any number of reasons someone may choose to not cooperate and to immediately ask for a lawyer, including having a bad prior experience with LE or being very cognizant of how quickly a seemingly friendly chat with cops can turn into you being suspect #1. MOO

I didn't say that only guilty people lawyer up. I said I think innocent people would not always take the route BK has. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

The defense visited on 1/3 and 1/6. They received the State's response to discovery 1/23. They need to examine everything and then do their own testing. Chief Fry on 12/31 said they were still receiving test results from the crime scene. Might be a while before the defense actually has a report. JMO

Bryan Kohberger's lawyer sends defense investigators to crime scene: source

Members of Bryan Kohberger's defense team toured the Idaho home where four college students were slaughtered on Nov. 13, Fox News Digital has learned.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho police begin clearing rental home where students were murdered

Idaho State Police began clearing the Moscow home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death - a day after their alleged killer was formally charged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Q&A: Police chief speaks after arrest in Idaho stabbings

Moscow Police Chief James Fry opened up to NewsNation in one of his first interviews since the arrest of a suspect in connection to the case.

www.newsnationnow.com

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/012323%20States%20Response%20to%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

edit: Chief Fry said - changed from 1/3 to 12/31

Thanks. This explains why the defense is saying they have no evidence to turn over to the prosecution at this time.

 

[renarde]

Established by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1963, the Brady Rule is intended to help ensure that criminal defendants receive a fair trial. Under this rule, prosecutors have an obligation to disclose all “exculpatory” evidence that is “material” to a defendant's case.Jun 29, 2022

The Brady Rule Entitles Criminal Defendants to All​

I have begun to think that DD went to the front door; XK went to get her bag, BK went through the slider and ran upstairs.

That makes sense. XK could have gone downstairs to pick up her DD at the front door.

<moo>

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Miranda applies to post-arrest, in-custody interrogation. The Constitution doesn't require advisement of Miranda rights at arrest. No doubt there has been litigation across Federal and state courts in every state/Circuit as to the variations on the law in those jurisductions, so there should be varying results depending.

Local customs as to when rights are read, and the exact wording, vary.

In-custody interrogation is not that gray a space. It means you've been arrested and detained/are not free to go, and it means you are being asked questions.

Talking without being asked a question is not protected, even in custody. Talking to a non-state agent asking you questions while in custody is not protected.

The remedy (after filing a motion to exclude your testimonial evidence, if successful) is exclusion of your statements from your criminal trial (on the matter for which you were arrested), but only as evidence of your guilt/admission. It can still be used to impeach you, and evidence obtained based on or as a result of your (excluded) statements is admissible.

All statements ^ are general statements. Jurisdictions/prevailing interpretations may vary.

Case law research will prove otherwise. if it weren't a grey area, it wouldn't be addressed so often on appeal imo jmo supported by research.

For anyone who'd like to understand this, you can start with Rhode Island v. Innis and then search case law to see how that's been applied from state to state. many cases out addressing when custodial interrogation begins.

to keep this relant to the bk case, I'm certain he was mirandized at arrest, but what could hae been interesting in theory is if the Indiana stops had questioned him in any way. they didn't, that's just a 'what if' on my part.

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[Dotta]

Thanks. This explains why the defense is saying they have no evidence to turn over to the prosecution at this time.

What does it exactly mean that "they need to do their own testing"?

Isn't testing done by Prosecution reliable or what?

 

[schooling]

I believe the defense would be quite unlikely to present any evidence at the preliminary hearing.

MOO

All below is my opinion as I am not an expert or employed in any position to give me authority over this domain.

Prosecutors get the same right to evidence that the Defense does. Receiving it in a timely manner is an expectation of that.

If they say they have nothing, then they likely have just that, nothing. Defense teams going to trial without any evidence of their own is not unusual. The burden is not on them.

- They'll probably focus on poking holes in the prosecutions narrative through cross examination. The timing of the car movement. What Doordash guy saw. Police rushed to judgement since there 22k Elantras. etc.
- They'll establish that place as party house. Question whether or not the two surviving roommates know every single person that has ever stepped foot in there. and can they be 100000000% sure that they know everyone (likely 100s of people). they'll probably stop short of asking about BK directly. They'll call the police officers who responded to the loud noise complaint calls.
- Call anyone that their investigator can identify as having partied there
- Present character witnesses from the University and elsewhere

I'd have to imagine that any solid alibi would be exculpatory (eye witness, out of town etc) and Bryan would be a free man right now. So they don't have that.

The only other place I can see any evidence coming out of this is if they - Present their own expert witnesses to counter whatever the prosecution presents. Challenging the reliability of transfer dna, cell tower data, drilling on the initial misidentification of the Elantra model year, challenging whether that sheath would have held the murder weapon etc.

They are probably better off focusing their efforts on that. Otherwise...there's what? Putting the victims on trial? "We found X amount of DnA samples on the bed along with the defendants". ? Sounds like a sure way to lose.

 

[acutename]

What does it exactly mean that "they need to do their own testing"?

Isn't testing done by Prosecution reliable or what?

pretty sure they will review the prosection's testing and look for any weaknesses. maybe see if they can find lots of party DNA samples to suggest other possible suspects, IMO.

 

[gliving]

There were two bags in the kitchen. The one by the sink and the one on the table.

JMO

View attachment 400260View attachment 400258

I thought perhaps LE moved everything away from the sink and placed it on the table. Like if they were checking the drains for blood. See the same half-full glass and pots and pans in both photos.

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle got DoorDash delivery just minutes before her murder

Kernodle and three of her roommates were stabbed to death by a crazed knifeman between 4 a.m. and 4:25 a.m. on Nov. 13.

nypost.com

 

[MsBetsy]

What does it exactly mean that "they need to do their own testing"?

Isn't testing done by Prosecution reliable or what?

It doesn't mean the testing done by the prosecution is unreliable. The defense need to be able to challenge the evidence properly. They have access to the same evidence the prosecution has and can perform their own tests when possible, imo.

 

[Nila Aella]

I thought perhaps LE moved everything away from the sink and placed it on the table. Like if they were checking the drains for blood. See the same half-full glass and pots and pans in both photos.

View attachment 400271
View attachment 400272

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle got DoorDash delivery just minutes before her murder

Kernodle and three of her roommates were stabbed to death by a crazed knifeman between 4 a.m. and 4:25 a.m. on Nov. 13.

nypost.com

Excellent! It looks like all the same items...plant, soap, strainer, pots. So, one bag that has been moved from the sink to the table.
JMO
edit: added on bag sentence

 

[wary]

They are gathering evidence, this is why they asked to delay the preliminary hearing.

They will present evidence, they are requesting 4 or 5 days for the hearing.

They’re studying the evidence that the prosecution provided them in discovery, that’s for certain.

 

[gliving]

It doesn't mean the testing done by the prosecution is unreliable. The defense need to be able to challenge the evidence properly. They have access to the same evidence the prosecution has and can perform their own tests when possible, imo.

I think it was the Kelsey Berreth case where a sample was so small it would be destroyed in testing. Both sides had a say in it's testing and were present when it was tested.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I thought perhaps LE moved everything away from the sink and placed it on the table. Like if they were checking the drains for blood. See the same half-full glass and pots and pans in both photos.

View attachment 400271
View attachment 400272

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle got DoorDash delivery just minutes before her murder

Kernodle and three of her roommates were stabbed to death by a crazed knifeman between 4 a.m. and 4:25 a.m. on Nov. 13.

nypost.com

It looks like there are two bags; I think Nila Aella was right, gliving.
I see that the labels for Xana's name are in different positions. So I think it must be two different bags.
I also noticed that it looks as though the tops of the bags might have originally been folded closed and sealed with the red tape. I think I can see where there's still a bit of red tape under one of the labels. So, that makes me think that both had been received and opened already.
It makes me think that Xana had, at least, opened the bag and had begun eating her order? Assuming, of course, that DD had been a delivery from JITB. I dunno, but at least it gives me more of an idea of her timeline. MOO
Edited to add photo

 

[iamshadow21]

I thought perhaps LE moved everything away from the sink and placed it on the table. Like if they were checking the drains for blood. See the same half-full glass and pots and pans in both photos.

View attachment 400271
View attachment 400272

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle got DoorDash delivery just minutes before her murder

Kernodle and three of her roommates were stabbed to death by a crazed knifeman between 4 a.m. and 4:25 a.m. on Nov. 13.

nypost.com

Yeah, I can see the disposable cup with the domed top, the pump bottle of soap, levels of liquid exactly the same in both. Also, the little white tin bucket with the plant in it is clearly there, too. Also, the colander and the black noodle bowl from the sink. All really identifiable as the same items.

 

[Ceska]

Just who are these so-called "sources close to the investigation"? I saw basically the same thing reported on News Nation (Banfield). If they have a source, they should name it, otherwise, IMO, it's just hearsay.

Idaho victim Xana Kernodle fought back against alleged killer Bryan Kohberger: report

Slain University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle fought back against alleged killer Bryan Kohberger — suffering noticeable defensive wounds on her hands, a report said.

nypost.com

 

[Cool Cats]

I'll go even further than that. He doesn't have to talk to LE to establish an alibi. That what a lawyer is for, imho. If he has an alibi that is solid, and she doesn't take it to LE, that means the real killer is still at large, the community is still in danger AND no one is looking for him anymore. Maybe I'm naive but I believe AT would be failing in her duty to her client as well as to the community if she didn't give them his alibi. Hearing that BK has a verifiable alibi should certainly give LE a wakeup call and I don't see how it weakens his case if it's real.

Let's assume for the moment that he's completely innocent and the he has been frequenting a nearby gym. And the gym has records. I personally believe if that were true, a gym employee would have already stepped forward to give him that alibi, but this is just an example. Maybe his phone died that morning while he was exercising. So the sudden reappearance was just when he plugged it in to charge after leaving the gym. It would make no sense at all for AT to let her client sit in jail until June when she could easily prove to LE where he was when the murders occurred. I firmly believe he would no longer be in jail if he had an alibi that would stand up. MOOooo

I would greatly appreciate a lawyer weighing in on this question. For me, I try to take things in order. Because of how things unfolded, they arrested him before he had a lawyer, and before they interviewed him at all, so he never had a chance to provide an alibi that might have quietly redirected their investigation. If they have the wrong guy, it's going to be messy all the way around. 100%.

I'm also assuming AT met with BK before the hearing that day, even if for just a few minutes. If I were arrested for a murder I didn't do and had an alibi, the first words out of my mouth to my lawyer would be "For the love of God, I didn't do this. I have an alibi. Please help me!". If he gave her an unshakable alibi, I can't see AT saying "Great, that will really torpedo their case when we get into court in three years. Sit tight now." To me, she has an obligation to go to LE and say "I have something to check out and it's in everyone's best interests to give me a few hours before we all go into court on camera." If it checks out, I think they have to release him.

Now, if LE uncovered information on their own (after he's arrested) that points to someone else being responsible? I think that's the stuff that gives LE nightmares. If they are honorable and good at their jobs, I think they chase that down like crazy. And if it checks out, they have to release him. It would be discoverable, right? If they let him rot in jail with evidence in hand that excludes him as a suspect, he eventually sues everyone's butts off. I certainly would in his situation.

Every lawyer on here may show up and tell me I'm an idiot, but that's what I think. MOOooo

I enjoy reading your posts maskedwoman.

You come up with an extremely good point, that if BK had a solid alibi and everyone just sat on it, then the real killer would still be out there endangering the public. It would be imperative to warn the public to be vigilant and keep their garages, doors and windows locked up tight. Get a good alarm system, etc....

Would they let him go? That might depend on his car. If he couldn't account for his car that night, then it would look like he may have given the killer his car and knife to go commit the murders for him. It could look like he had a partner.

But ultimately it would be up to the judge. The judge would decide if there was still enough probable cause to keep him under arrest, or if his alibi was enough to tank the probable cause, thus leading to his release.

In no way, shape or form would his lawyer NOT present BK's alibi to the court if he had one. If he had a solid alibi - including his car - he would be out of jail and the police would be asking the public for tips to catch the killer who is still at large.

2 Cents