ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2

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I would disagree that generally people are in bed sleeping at 3am, especially college students on a Saturday night. If any of the victims were in their room when attacked, there could be blood that got on the bedding & it's being tested to see if there is anything unknown there (i.e., not the victim's blood or dna). Bedding doesn't mean someone was asleep. Or even in bed at all. If a victim was up, perhaps there was a struggle or they fell & hit the bed on their way down. The perp could have lost balance & reached out to right themselves by touching the bed. Etc. I can see lots of scenarios where a victim was not in bed but the bedding needs to be tested.

The article did not state that any of them were asleep, nor have the reports that have come out today indicated that.

MOO.

On a separate note, someone mentioned that perhaps the dog was crated. I think that's a good suggestion & I hadn't thought of that possibility. MOO.

Agreed that the bedding being tested doesn’t necessarily mean they were sleeping.

I was once at a college party where a fist fight broke out between two people. The entire house somehow looked like a crime scene. I was right next to it and had blood on me, but my SO was across the room and ended up with blood all over his jacket, more so than myself. I remember seeing blood on the walls up the side of the staircase which I found odd, as the fight was in the main living room, on the opposite side of the room from the staircase. And no weapons were involved, this was just a fist fight.

IMO, blood seems to uh.. splatter (sorry for the descriptive word) further than I would expect. I honestly am horrified to imagine what a knife would do.
 
New to the forum and read all the posts. I’m guessing the perp was someone they knew and who had been to the house before. I also think whoever did this was out of their mind on drugs which would explain the strength and adrenaline needed to murder 4 people in such a heinous way. They may have even been let in through the sliding door by one of the couple who knew them.

Also, the survivors really are key to solving this case because they knew the other roommates better than anyone, knew the people that came over and the activities that went on in that house and lastly were there when the crime was committed. I also agree one of the phones of these students will tell a story.

I am puzzled however how someone could get out of that house with out leaving a bloody trail and make it to somewhere to clean up with out being seen. Someone somewhere is walking around with bruises scratches and cuts and Someone they know has got to be suspicious or know they were involved.
 
New to the forum and read all the posts. I’m guessing the perp was someone they knew and who had been to the house before. I also think whoever did this was out of their mind on drugs which would explain the strength and adrenaline needed to murder 4 people in such a heinous way. They may have even been let in through the sliding door by one of the couple who knew them.

Also, the survivors really are key to solving this case because they knew the other roommates better than anyone, knew the people that came over and the activities that went on in that house and lastly were there when the crime was committed. I also agree one of the phones of these students will tell a story.

I am puzzled however how someone could get out of that house with out leaving a bloody trail and make it to somewhere to clean up with out being seen. Someone somewhere is walking around with bruises scratches and cuts and Someone they know has got to be suspicious or know they were involved.
Agreed . Maybe even they came over and tried To Come hang out and Ethan told them to leave and they just got angry and freaked out and started killing . I don’t know there are so many possibilities .
 
I am puzzled however how someone could get out of that house with out leaving a bloody trail and make it to somewhere to clean up with out being seen. Someone somewhere is walking around with bruises scratches and cuts and Someone they know has got to be suspicious or know they were involved.
Snipped here — maybe he/she had help leaving the house, or stayed in the house and cleaned up.
Otherwise I feel there would have to be at least drops of blood somewhere outside of the house indicating how they exited. Or maybe they’re keeping that close to the chest. IMO
 
It has also been confirmed two roommates, BF and DM, were upstairs at the time of the murders, although cops have said neither is under investigation and the surviving friends have been cooperating with the investigation.



It has also been confirmed two roommates, BF and DM, were upstairs at the time of the murders, although cops have said neither is under investigation and the surviving friends have been cooperating with the investigation.


Per the NY Post article cited, “It has also been confirmed two roommates, BF and DM, were upstairs at the time of the murders.” Passive voice in reporting sucks. By whom was it confirmed? NY Post is the worst. For me, IMHO, I’ll wait until there is direct attribution to a statement by LE to this effect.
 
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I don't think the perp necessarily had to have combat training. In 2015, two teenagers in Oklahoma (the Bever brothers) stabbed five family members to death, and they had no previous combat training.
I’m more optical than literal about the knife. What I mean:
I think LE is asking about this knife type because ME sees evidence in postmortem bone injury, and Idaho cops, who are more often by environment and culture post-military and permitted hunters (certainly way more than my local New Jersey cops, who trend more toward the cybersecurity and white collar crime experiences) may have spotted this at the crime scene itself, even before autopsy. I suspect that a 1-on-4 killing involved some disabling of the victims. That is my opinion and not a documented fact.

I think the offender (or offenders, I lean offender, multiple people are exponentially bad at keeping secrets) probably did carry that type of knife.

I know branches of the Marine Corps have historically carried and trained on that knife. I suspect that other detachments of other military branches have done same. This offender, whomever it may be, may well have been trained on use of this knife, and I’d be looking for people in the area who might fall in this category.

Just as likely, in my opinion, is some incel who never went military but has been reading about knife types across the internet, and likes the allusion that using one conjures, i.e. military man, Rambo. Maybe he wasn’t formally trained but he hunted. Maybe he didn’t hunt, but he fantasy-practiced. Remember Adam Lanza with his Sig Sauers in his bedroom. Disenfranchised men acting out of a belief system, a set of social and egoistic optics.

I don’t know what this is yet but I love the idea that dozens if not hundreds of Idaho and Washington LE and scientific experts are devoting tonight, and future nights, if need be, to figuring that out.
 

Quoting to highlight this info from Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt:
#UPDATE just talked to Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt.
She said:
- Has no way of knowing it was the same knife, but if it wasn’t, would’ve been an similar knife
-cannot speak to defensive wounds
-doesn’t know if they were asleep
-time of death was sometime early morning
 
I’m more optical than literal about the knife. What I mean:
I think LE is asking about this knife type because ME sees evidence in postmortem bone injury, and Idaho cops, who are more often by environment and culture post-military and permitted hunters (certainly way more than my local New Jersey cops, who trend more toward the cybersecurity and white collar crime experiences) may have spotted this at the crime scene itself, even before autopsy. I suspect that a 1-on-4 killing involved some disabling of the victims. That is my opinion and not a documented fact.

I think the offender (or offenders, I lean offender, multiple people are exponentially bad at keeping secrets) probably did carry that type of knife.

I know branches of the Marine Corps have historically carried and trained on that knife. I suspect that other detachments of other military branches have done same. This offender, whomever it may be, may well have been trained on use of this knife, and I’d be looking for people in the area who might fall in this category.

Just as likely, in my opinion, is some incel who never went military but has been reading about knife types across the internet, and likes the allusion that using one conjures, i.e. military man, Rambo. Maybe he wasn’t formally trained but he hunted. Maybe he didn’t hunt, but he fantasy-practiced. Remember Adam Lanza with his Sig Sauers in his bedroom. Disenfranchised men acting out of a belief system, a set of social and egoistic optics.

I don’t know what this is yet but I love the idea that dozens if not hundreds of Idaho and Washington LE and scientific experts are devoting tonight, and future nights, if need be, to figuring that out.

Was thinking the same thing, military trained or wanna-be military. Maybe someone who could not/did not get accepted into the military.
 
Here’s my theory (MOO, of course)

The killer is someone who has had a least some social contact with his target victim (I’m guessing either Kaylee or Madison, but possibly Xana). My guess is that it is not a friend/acquaintance, but has certainly been around K or M several times - maybe a customer at work, an older student in one of their classes, a neighbor, someone on the pheriphery.

Perhaps the killer has been in the house once or twice socially, or maybe not. But I suspect he knows where she lives.

On the night in question, something (perhaps very small) triggers the killer. Perhaps he sees his target out at a party, perhaps he watches her TikTok etc. This triggers anger in him and he decides to confront her. To be clear, I am not suggesting any culpability in these victim’s own deaths - just that something (irrationally) triggers the killer. Perhaps he has even watched her house on other weekend evenings and watched her come and go.

I presume that Xana and Ethan are home first, and in their room on the 2nd floor when Kaylee and Madison arrive home. K/M come home, let the dog out, and fail to fully lock the sliding door after. They go to bed.

The killer enters in the slider, and proceeds upstairs to kill his target victim. She will show signs of significantly more violence than the other victims. He also kills the other, on the top floor. This is because he knows she’s there. He’s quick and doesn’t cause much noise, so no one else wakes up.

He then heads down to the kitchen to try to clean himself up. Ethan goes to the kitchen for water or a snack, and encounters the killer. Ethan is killed either in the kitchen or in the doorway to the bedroom (per mom’s report that E and X were ‘together’). The killer checks the bedroom and finds Xana and kills her.

I presume it is likely Ethan (or perhaps Xana) who is somewhat visible on the 2nd floor (visible through the sliding door) to trigger the 911 call the next morning.

The downstairs roommates don’t wake up, and the killer either didn’t know they were there or prioritized fleeing the scene rather than harming them.

The killer needs to ditch their clothes and weapon and get home to clean up ASAP. I am hoping some of the evidence of this is found.
 
This article says that "two other roommates [were] home at time of killings but declined to call 911, police say." Also, "[Police Chief] Fry did not say who called 911, despite two people being at the home when the killing took place and when officers responded."

This seems to imply that the two surviving roommates decided not to call 911 for some reason, and perhaps never called 911. If the roommates made the call about the "unconscious person" at the home, why not say so? JMO

I don’t believe either housemate called police, I think a friend of the household has shown up, seen the open sliding door & perhaps a body on the floor & called the police. I think both housemates were asleep & were only woken by the police who were responding to the 911 call.
 
Haven’t heard of many cases where a victim’s blood leaves a trail of drops exiting a crime scene. Unless they were trying to move it in some sort of container where it’s able to pool.

Shoe prints? Sure. Other forms of transfer evidence? (i.e brushing up against a wall, grabbing a door know). Sure

Victims blood? Nah. This isn’t Carrie.

The perp would have had to have been hurt beyond a scrape or a scratch. They would need an actively bleeding wound to leave a trail of blood drops ala OJs cut finger in the alleyway.
 
Bedding at the forensics lab confirms what we believed --that one or more of the victims were sleeping when they faced the intruder.


Mabbutt said it is unknown who was attacked first. She said it is possible some wounds on the bodies were defensive.

DNA samples, including from the clothing, bedding and nail clippings, still need to be tested at a forensics lab.
Not necessarily. Blood could have gotten on the bedding without the victim laying down or being asleep when they were murdered. Spray patterns can cover a lot of area.
 
Interesting to see a coroner who is an RN and not a medical doctor.
Idaho's qualifications for coroner:

What are the qualifications specified by law?
After January 1, 2010, each county coroner shall complete twenty-four (24) hours of continuing education on a biennial calendar basis. Idaho Code Ann. § 31-2810.

No person shall be elected to the office of coroner unless he has attained the age of twenty-one (21) years at the time of his election, is a citizen of the United States and shall have resided within the county one (1) year next preceding his election . . .
All newly elected or appointed county coroners shall attend a coroner’s school within one (1) year of taking office. Such school shall be sponsored or endorsed by the Idaho state association of county coroners. Idaho Code Ann. § 34-622.

 
The only thing I haven’t scene reported is the scene outside the home, I just feel there has to be blood/footprints. I can’t see the perp taking a shower, I see him leaving immediately and it being messy. Unless he didn’t, and cleaned up which I think isn’t likely.

IMO the police have lots of evidence, it’s only a matter of time.
 
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