ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 43

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schooling said:
I think the profilers and internet speculators are missing the mark here on this guy. I think there’s something that separates him from your usual suspects that will make this a relatively quiet conclusion. Feel free to skip down to my TLDR for my quick summary take.

Like other killers BK likely put time into physical preparation and planning. Enhanced by all that he knew about the criminal justice system. Likely surveilling and watching. Noticing surroundings, lighting. Shaving body. Carefully selecting clothing. Having disposal means and location of clothing and weapon. Wrapped his feet etc. Knowing that the use of a knife would point to someone in the inner circle. Likely left red herrings behind.

But BK recognized something else that most other killers don’t recognize. The importance of mental preparation and conditioning. And I think it’s likely he thought this would give him an advantage.

He recognized that as soon as he walked through that sliding door he would lose control. And that no matter how much work he did to prepare…there was no way he could anticipate what would happen in that house. So he did his homework and prepared mentally. He recognized that killers make mistakes in the moment because of unanticipated feelings, thoughts, reactions to unanticipated victim behavior…and he tried to account for all of that with the survey. I’m not sure I’ve read about anything like this before with any other killers. This level of mental work. And I bet he thought this would be what would separate him from other killers who were caught.

By all indicators he had been preparing for that moment for years. Laid out what he thought was the perfect plan. A plan informed by his studies, studies that would surely propel him to the highest academic achievement you can receive in his chosen field.

This is a person who seemed to beat addiction by becoming ruthlessly disciplined. Focused all of his energy into his studies (and as a result this crime). There are not many indications that he was operating by instinct like other killers people here keep comparing him to.

All of that just for me to say that he flipped the 50/50 murder coin and failed. He acknowledged and accounted for the unanticipated moments where others didnt. He was a few years from being at the academic pinnacle in his field. and he FAILED.

If this was a Dunning Kruger suffering narcissist who operated most out of instinct and his likely above average (but overestimated on his part) intelligence I’d agree and say …”ya, this guy is going to make a big spectacle at trial on in some grandiose confession” but I don’t think this is that guy.

I think BK is ashamed, confused, embarrassed and likely doesn’t want to relive or face the reality of any of his failed plan. If he doesn’t plead guilty to avoid the death penalty and coming to terms with his failure (and his family and friends learning first hand of it). He’ll sit there in his chair during trial and not utter a word. We’ll likely never hear his side of the story.

______

TLDR; BK invested a lot of time and energy into planning. And they still caught him. He’ll go out ashamed and with a whimper.
Click to expand...
Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.
 
I am sorry. The discussion was closed so I just copied everything and am posting it here. Hope it is not a horrible deviation from the "forum finesse".

Lalalacasbah said:
I was just coming on here to comment as well about that vape shop owner who said the girls came in talking of a guy following KG at that bars. Now wonder if these were all him.
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I doubt. This guy, BK, has thought about many things. (I think he was, ultimately, a loner, so had to rely on own car, and that was a mistake).

I think he tried to put ten degrees of separation between himself and the victims.

I would not be surprised if he targeted several houses with single women around, but maybe chose the one that had no cameras. JMO - one wonders if what made him leave was the presence of a man as killing a man was unplanned.

I would be incredibly surprised if he had a live helper. His "others" would probably mean, either his family, or an online group, or just serve as the way to deflect.

I would not be surprised if he tries to turn "others" into "voices" in his head, pretending incapable to stand the trial, but his meticulous planning and behavior after the murders indicates that he understood what he was doing, the consequences and the choice.

He is a hedonistic murderer who did it for self-satisfaction, thinking of no one, even own parents, and the sooner he is extradited to Idaho, the better.

Again, good luck and happy NY to MPD, Idaho police, FBI, pathologists, journalists, and everyone involved in this hard case. Happy NY to Pennsylvania police, too.

Best of luck to the relatives of the victims, may they all stay healthy and resilient in the forthcoming year, and may their immense courage stay with them.
 
Just out of curiosity……

Does anyone else think it’s highly likely that one of the other criminology PHD students (only 8 miles and 10-15 minute drive from the murders)…. Could have been who initially tipped off LE to BK as possible suspect?

I mean I’d hope that the professor and other criminology PHD students had a discussion in class about the horrific murders that took place just 8 miles away at neighboring university. I’d think this is something those students would discuss and that they themselves would be invested in trying to find who committed the murders.
 
schooling said:
I think the profilers and internet speculators are missing the mark here on this guy. I think there’s something that separates him from your usual suspects that will make this a relatively quiet conclusion. Feel free to skip down to my TLDR for my quick summary take.

Like other killers BK likely put time into physical preparation and planning. Enhanced by all that he knew about the criminal justice system. Likely surveilling and watching. Noticing surroundings, lighting. Shaving body. Carefully selecting clothing. Having disposal means and location of clothing and weapon. Wrapped his feet etc. Knowing that the use of a knife would point to someone in the inner circle. Likely left red herrings behind.

But BK recognized something else that most other killers don’t recognize. The importance of mental preparation and conditioning. And I think it’s likely he thought this would give him an advantage.

He recognized that as soon as he walked through that sliding door he would lose control. And that no matter how much work he did to prepare…there was no way he could anticipate what would happen in that house. So he did his homework and prepared mentally. He recognized that killers make mistakes in the moment because of unanticipated feelings, thoughts, reactions to unanticipated victim behavior…and he tried to account for all of that with the survey. I’m not sure I’ve read about anything like this before with any other killers. This level of mental work. And I bet he thought this would be what would separate him from other killers who were caught.

By all indicators he had been preparing for that moment for years. Laid out what he thought was the perfect plan. A plan informed by his studies, studies that would surely propel him to the highest academic achievement you can receive in his chosen field.

This is a person who seemed to beat addiction by becoming ruthlessly disciplined. Focused all of his energy into his studies (and as a result this crime). There are not many indications that he was operating by instinct like other killers people here keep comparing him to.

All of that just for me to say that he flipped the 50/50 murder coin and failed. He acknowledged and accounted for the unanticipated moments where others didnt. He was a few years from being at the academic pinnacle in his field. and he FAILED.

If this was a Dunning Kruger suffering narcissist who operated most out of instinct and his likely above average (but overestimated on his part) intelligence I’d agree and say …”ya, this guy is going to make a big spectacle at trial on in some grandiose confession” but I don’t think this is that guy.

I think BK is ashamed, confused, embarrassed and likely doesn’t want to relive or face the reality of any of his failed plan. If he doesn’t plead guilty to avoid the death penalty and coming to terms with his failure (and his family and friends learning first hand of it). He’ll sit there in his chair during trial and not utter a word. We’ll likely never hear his side of the story.

______

TLDR; BK invested a lot of time and energy into planning. And they still caught him. He’ll go out ashamed and with a whimper.
Click to expand...

Agreeing with others that this is an outstanding post and everyone should read the details. Your second paragraph especially.

The "mental conditioning" he did is such an apt phrase. I thought, from his mug shot, that he'd done what a lot of other people in his age group are doing - he practice and chose his "mug shot face." He's not the only arrestee who has done that, but his choice of face and his practiced stare is quite something.

I don't think we've had another mass murderer who was a criminologist. Maybe, but I can't think of one. It sounds like he used his academic career to prepare for this crime, for sure. I bet he's got plenty of notes and articles on his computer. These would all look normal for a criminology student, of course.

I agree that his planning (in the broadest sense) began years before and he might not have known initially that he was actually planning. His mind just kept going to building a bigger and better notion of this "perfect crime."

I agree that we may never hear the totality of his story, but I also think it's possible he'll be one of those killers who wants to write a book - eventually. Right now, he won't be allowed so much as a pencil, so he's going to have to modify his behavior again, because I view him as someone who was at his computer a lot, researching, trying to write papers - he had a dissertation he was supposed to be writing, etc. Many graduate programs do not require coursework past the first year, it's all supervised research for the rest of the time.

He's going to miss his computer. It is likely also a part of how he handles his addiction/craving issues.
 
NeverPersonal said:
Trying hard to keep up but unsure if this was posted.
Idaho victim Kaylee Goncalves' father says she had CONNECTIONS to suspected killer
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Thanks @NeverPersonal Kohberger's darkness reminds me so much of Israel Keyes. From your link:


"'I suspect that Kohberger was well aware of his dark nature and homicidal ideation and endeavored to discover more about himself through his studies,' said Enzo Yaksic, a criminal profiler and founder of the Atypical Homicide Research Group in Boston, in an email to DailyMail.com.

'But pursuing an advanced degree to become a better murderer is a foolhardy exercise,' he added, 'as nothing more is learned about such tactics and strategies than can be found on a popular podcast or true crime book.

'If Kohberger is an aspiring serial murderer who desired to commit the perfect murder, he quickly learned what many have discovered in the modern-age: it is far more difficult to get away with serial killing today than when Ted Bundy was active.'
 
CLGM said:
@Kristina730 -- I am not caught up with thread #42, but wondered if anybody responded to your post

I thought this was an interesting question: "Is there some other model of characterizing behaviors that is taught in the criminal justice world? Is there a book similar to the DSM for criminology that includes terms like psychopathy and sociopathy? Genuinely interested in answers that come from criminal justice professionals."
Click to expand...
Crime Classification Manual

Forensic Psychiatry Taxonmy in a Special Section of the DSM V

jaapl.org

Introduction to the Special Section on DSM-5 and Forensic Psychiatry

The American Psychiatric Association's (APA) 2013 publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5),[1][1] marks the first substantial revision of the psychiatric diagnostic classification system since the publication of DSM-III in 1980.[2][2] In recent
jaapl.org jaapl.org
 
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Is it a given that BK will be extradited to ID? What obstacles could come about?
 
schooling said:
I think the profilers and internet speculators are missing the mark here on this guy. I think there’s something that separates him from your usual suspects that will make this a relatively quiet conclusion. Feel free to skip down to my TLDR for my quick summary take.

Like other killers BK likely put time into physical preparation and planning. Enhanced by all that he knew about the criminal justice system. Likely surveilling and watching. Noticing surroundings, lighting. Shaving body. Carefully selecting clothing. Having disposal means and location of clothing and weapon. Wrapped his feet etc. Knowing that the use of a knife would point to someone in the inner circle. Likely left red herrings behind.

But BK recognized something else that most other killers don’t recognize. The importance of mental preparation and conditioning. And I think it’s likely he thought this would give him an advantage.

He recognized that as soon as he walked through that sliding door he would lose control. And that no matter how much work he did to prepare…there was no way he could anticipate what would happen in that house. So he did his homework and prepared mentally. He recognized that killers make mistakes in the moment because of unanticipated feelings, thoughts, reactions to unanticipated victim behavior…and he tried to account for all of that with the survey. I’m not sure I’ve read about anything like this before with any other killers. This level of mental work. And I bet he thought this would be what would separate him from other killers who were caught.

By all indicators he had been preparing for that moment for years. Laid out what he thought was the perfect plan. A plan informed by his studies, studies that would surely propel him to the highest academic achievement you can receive in his chosen field.

This is a person who seemed to beat addiction by becoming ruthlessly disciplined. Focused all of his energy into his studies (and as a result this crime). There are not many indications that he was operating by instinct like other killers people here keep comparing him to.

All of that just for me to say that he flipped the 50/50 murder coin and failed. He acknowledged and accounted for the unanticipated moments where others didnt. He was a few years from being at the academic pinnacle in his field. and he FAILED.

If this was a Dunning Kruger suffering narcissist who operated most out of instinct and his likely above average (but overestimated on his part) intelligence I’d agree and say …”ya, this guy is going to make a big spectacle at trial on in some grandiose confession” but I don’t think this is that guy.

I think BK is ashamed, confused, embarrassed and likely doesn’t want to relive or face the reality of any of his failed plan. If he doesn’t plead guilty to avoid the death penalty and coming to terms with his failure (and his family and friends learning first hand of it). He’ll sit there in his chair during trial and not utter a word. We’ll likely never hear his side of the story.

______

TLDR; BK invested a lot of time and energy into planning. And they still caught him. He’ll go out ashamed and with a whimper.
Click to expand...

His plan was about as bad as a General that forgets the ships and boats for a beach invasion.

It would not surprise me in the least if there wasn't any previous crimes in his past. The truly experienced criminal minds have worked their way up to this moment. They have burglarized, broken and entered into homes. They become wise to the ways and means of carrying out their criminal activity.

People here are really giving this guy too much credit. He was a scholar, white collar guy that tried to be a criminal. His education may have given him knowledge but he didn't know how to apply that knowledge. Thankfully.
 
Janitor101 said:
Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.
Click to expand...
Genuine question. I’m very intrigued by your post and honestly don’t know much about this sealed documents in warrants or extraditions of potential murderers across state lines.

So you are saying they don’t have to tell him evidence until he appears in front of the court for the hearing?

Very interesting and very good point.
 
Janitor101 said:
Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.
Click to expand...
I'm sure they will offer him a deal in exchange for a confession and for him to connect the dots and to answer and resolve any of the things LE hasn't regarding what happened. I'd imagine in the deal the state will have the death penalty on the table.

Of course that's just my opinion. If he insist to make any kind of spectacle or decides to plead not guilty then any deal would be taken off the table and the death penalty will be sought.
 
Doubt he will confess. He denies the killings.

BREAKING NEWS: 'Shocked' Idaho 'killer' Bryan Kohberger plans to DENY murders, will agree to extradition from Pennsylvania and is taken off suicide watch, attorney says - as victim's dad reveals her 'connection' to suspect​

www.dailymail.co.uk

Idaho victim's father says she had CONNECTIONS to suspected killer

Steve Goncalves, father of Kaylee, 21, said his family has found connections between the University of Idaho student and suspect Bryan Kohberger, who was arrested on Friday.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Janitor101 said:
Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.
Click to expand...
@schooling has a brilliant post above on this that sure does make a great case for it or something close
 
Janitor101 said:
Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.
Click to expand...
I think plenty of people will be interested. JMO
 
Response to this comment on the previous thread:

“Do you know anybody allergic to a certain ingredient asking for new pots and pans if the ingredient they are allergic to was cooked previously?”

Yes my sister and her kids have celiac disease and bring their own cooking tools including toaster oven. Can’t eat anything cooked in other peoples ovens.
 
schooling said:
I haven't had an Android device in a while but I know Google Maps used to (and might still have) a "Frequent Locations" option that's on by default and absolutely blows people's minds when they first see it. It will provide a minute by minute timeline of your locations throughout the day.

Apple's iOS had an equivalent feature. Again, shocking to say the least when you first see it. So accurate that a lot of hourly drivers and other traveling workers would use it to track their hours and mileage. But in the latest release of iOS they've abstracted that information and you no longer get to see a detailed log.

Also, raw GPS information will not be available via phone records. Unless its via an app that stores addresses or GPS like info in the cloud (google maps, yelp etc). They'll have to subpoena for those, if they even exist.

The best they'll be able to do from the likes of Verizon and T-Mobile are cell phone tower data and triangulation.
Click to expand...
No doubt IMO that LE has specific eyewitness, hard copy, or digital evidence over a period of time. Remember, LE talked about “patterns”.
 
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