ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 43

[clearskies1]

I don’t understand the attorneys point when he refers to where BK was that night since they likely have data showing the border of Idaho/Washington. What does that mean and why would he say this in an interview with a reporter? Why would he even ask that Q? He won’t be defending BK in a murder trial. Confused.

My understanding is the only extradition issue is whether he is, in fact, the individual named in the fugitive warrant.

I could be reading this wrong but -- I think under Pennsylvania law, a state (Idaho, for example) can only successfully extradite someone if that state (Idaho) either (1) alleges/proves that the person was in that state (Idaho) when the crime was committed; or (2) alleges that the person was in Pennsylvania or another third state and did something intentional to cause the crime in Idaho. Here, it seems Idaho is going with the first option, and maybe the public defender is conceding that BK was in Idaho at the time of the offense??? JMO.

2010 Pennsylvania Code Title 42 - JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE
Chapter 91 - Detainers and Extradition 9124 - Form of demand. 2010 Pennsylvania Code :: Title 42 - JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE :: Chapter 91 - Detainers and Extradition :: :: 9124 - Form of demand.

2010 Pennsylvania Code Title 42 - JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE
Chapter 91 - Detainers and Extradition9127 - Extradition of persons not present in demanding state at time of commission of crime 2010 Pennsylvania Code :: Title 42 - JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE :: Chapter 91 - Detainers and Extradition :: :: 9127 - Extradition of persons not present in demanding state at time of commission of crime.

 

[RainbowRoad]

I think the profilers and internet speculators are missing the mark here on this guy. I think there’s something that separates him from your usual suspects that will make this a relatively quiet conclusion. Feel free to skip down to my TLDR for my quick summary take.

Like other killers BK likely put time into physical preparation and planning. Enhanced by all that he knew about the criminal justice system. Likely surveilling and watching. Noticing surroundings, lighting. Shaving body. Carefully selecting clothing. Having disposal means and location of clothing and weapon. Wrapped his feet etc. Knowing that the use of a knife would point to someone in the inner circle. Likely left red herrings behind.

But BK recognized something else that most other killers don’t recognize. The importance of mental preparation and conditioning. And I think it’s likely he thought this would give him an advantage.

He recognized that as soon as he walked through that sliding door he would lose control. And that no matter how much work he did to prepare…there was no way he could anticipate what would happen in that house. So he did his homework and prepared mentally. He recognized that killers make mistakes in the moment because of unanticipated feelings, thoughts, reactions to unanticipated victim behavior…and he tried to account for all of that with the survey. I’m not sure I’ve read about anything like this before with any other killers. This level of mental work. And I bet he thought this would be what would separate him from other killers who were caught.

By all indicators he had been preparing for that moment for years. Laid out what he thought was the perfect plan. A plan informed by his studies, studies that would surely propel him to the highest academic achievement you can receive in his chosen field.

This is a person who seemed to beat addiction by becoming ruthlessly disciplined. Focused all of his energy into his studies (and as a result this crime). There are not many indications that he was operating by instinct like other killers people here keep comparing him to.

All of that just for me to say that he flipped the 50/50 murder coin and failed. He acknowledged and accounted for the unanticipated moments where others didnt. He was a few years from being at the academic pinnacle in his field. and he FAILED.

If this was a Dunning Kruger suffering narcissist who operated most out of instinct and his likely above average (but overestimated on his part) intelligence I’d agree and say …”ya, this guy is going to make a big spectacle at trial on in some grandiose confession” but I don’t think this is that guy.

I think BK is ashamed, confused, embarrassed and likely doesn’t want to relive or face the reality of any of his failed plan. If he doesn’t plead guilty to avoid the death penalty and coming to terms with his failure (and his family and friends learning first hand of it). He’ll sit there in his chair during trial and not utter a word. We’ll likely never hear his side of the story.

______

TLDR; BK invested a lot of time and energy into planning. And they still caught him. He’ll go out ashamed and with a whimper.

This! Yes! Never let this post get lost.

 

[Boxer]

This may have been mentioned before but threads are scrolling quickly. Right now there has been nothing stated as to BK's relation to any of the victims (friend, acquaintance, attended a party, etc.). There had to be some connection if he was able to get into the house without actually breaking in....unless they left the sliding door unlocked, but then he would have to know they left the door(s) frequently unlocked. Will be interesting to hear the entire story once it finally comes out.

EDIT: Just saw that one of the victim's family members said she had a connection to BK.

MOO a peripheral incel.

 

[Sassafrass]

Idaho murder suspect Kohberger's Pennsylvania classmates say he was 'bright,' awkward, bullied in school

A friend of the suspect arrested in connection with the Idaho quadruple murder told Fox News Digital that the Bryan Christopher Kohlberger she knew was a genius who was interested in what makes "humans tick" but had trouble relating to other peers.

www.yahoo.com

ALBRIGHTSVILLE, Pennsylvania – Former Pennsylvania classmates of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Christopher Kohberger said he was an intellectual who "was very interested in the way the mind works" but bullied for his weight and socially awkwardness.

In his home state, he was known as a genius who was socially awkward and had a tough time picking up on social cues, a couple of his former classmates told Fox News Digital.

Sarah Healey, who went to Pleasant Valley High School with Kohberger, said he was shy and kept to himself and a small group of friends, but some of their classmates – especially girls – mocked Kohberger and threw things at him.

"It was bad," Healey said. "There was definitely something off about him, like we couldn't tell exactly what it was. I remember one time when I was walking in the hallway, and he stopped me and was like, ‘Do you want to hang out?’"

At that point, they didn't know each other or run in the same social circles, said Healey.

"It was just weird," she said. "But Bryan was bullied a lot, and I never got a chance to say something to defend him, because he would always run away."

Intellectual? Genius?

He drove 2000 miles to murder people (mostly of a demographic that tends to get a lot of attention when murdered - in other words, would have a lot of LE resources and general attention) in one of only 4 states in the country that not only does not permit the insanity defense*, but also permits the death penalty even if someone is deemed "guilty but insane." He's been arrested within a month-and-a-half because he drove most of the way across the country to a place his car and ID would almost certainly have stood out for the out-of-state aspect and the distance. He apparently used a car associateable with him while accessing gas stations modern enough (like most) to be video-capturing cars and plates of every single vehicle that swings through.

This man is not a genius; he's not even smart or clever. I doubt that his version of meticulous planning some seem to believe he undertook is much more than perhaps dwelling on certain details, possibly obsessively if the OCD thing is accurate clinically. Clearly he did not design a foolproof plan and if it was hyper-detailed, it appears he lacked the ability to discern what was most important and to think through potential flaws, because he missed a big one.

* mental condition can be considered but only to the extent of whether the defendant knew they were committing a crime (seemingly obviously not an issue here); the example the Supreme Court has given, iirc, for an example of the mental state that would meet the standard was someone killing someone they believed to be a wolf.

 

[CaneDubs]

I wonder why his father would fly out to drive cross country with him? Why NOT pay to fly out your son for a Christmas break, wouldn't that be cheaper, faster, and safer? Avoid winter storms?

Maybe he needed his car for the break? They thought it would be a good adventure? Dad is protective or anxious about his kid driving that far alone?

My daughter was in school a 17 hour drive away and it was nerve wracking drive for parents at home. If she was going to be home for more than a week or two, she’d want her car. Shorter breaks were absolutely better to fly for.

 

[alsleuther]

Ah

I wonder why his father would fly out to drive cross country with him? Why NOT pay to fly out your son for a Christmas break, wouldn't that be cheaper, faster, and safer? Avoid winter storms?

Agreed. A parent flying out to drive cross country seems like something you might do for an 18 year old, not a 28 year old adult.

The most logical thing would be for him to just fly home for the holidays and then return to school in the new year.

Maybe he was driving the car back to sell it. If the title was in mommy or daddy’s name they would need to be the ones to sell it. I wonder if he convinced his parents he needed a new or different car?

 

[Seattle1]

11/30/22

Father Of Slain Idaho College Student Says His Daughter May Have Had A Stalker

Steve Goncalves says his daughter Kaylee had talked about someone who made her uncomfortable.

www.huffpost.com

Goncalves told Whitworth he’s frustrated with the lack of progress, saying that in the absence of public information, falsehoods are taking root. The grieving father said his daughter had talked about a potential stalker who made her uncomfortable. Investigators say they’ve “looked extensively” into this possibility, “but have not verified or identified a stalker” thus far.

12/5/22

Family of Kaylee Goncalves speaks about reports of stalker

One of the many theories online about the Idaho killings is whether one victim, Kaylee Goncalves, actually had a stalker.

www.newsnationnow.com

While sitting down for an interview with NewsNation senior national correspondent Brian Entin, the Goncalves family said they are not aware of Kaylee having a stalker ahead of the Nov. 13 murders.

12/5/22

Cops Address Slain Idaho Student Kaylee Goncalves’ Rumored Stalker

Police in Moscow, Idaho, released an update into the slayings of four college students, but have yet to name a suspect or locate the knife used in the murders.

www.thedailybeast.com

Cops in Moscow, Idaho, said Monday that slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves’ supposed comments about a potential stalker may have stemmed from a one-off incident at a local business, and that the two men involved are not suspects in her murder.

12/17/22

Kaylee Goncalves may not have been Idaho killer's target: Family's lawyer

Shanon Gray said Goncalves' family were "not sold" on the idea that Kaylee was specifically picked out by the attacker.

www.newsweek.com

However, appearing on NewsNation Shanon Gray, who the family hired as an attorney, said they were not "sold on the idea that Kaylee was targeted." He added: "I think the more likely idea if you're going to look at targeting is they were targeting a house that was full of girls, young ladies.

12/30/22

Families of Idaho murder victims address suspect's arrest: 'We are on the path to justice'

The father of University of Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves spoke to ABC News following the suspect's arrest on Friday.

abcnews.go.com

Steve Goncalves said no one in the family knows or recognizes the suspect, but in the hours since they've first learned his name they are starting to see connections between him and Kaylee Goncalves that they aren't ready to discuss yet.

"Now that there's a person and a name that someone can specifically look for and see if there's any connections in any way. So they're just trying to figure it out," the family's attorney, Shanon Grey, told ABC News.

 

[BrownRice]

But you can delete it all.

But I think they can find it?

 

[Alethea]

Odd that his father flew out and drove home with him. Pricey and time-consuming option, vs. BK just flying home on his own. I guess he just needed to get that car in PA? MOO.

Would love to know how that conversation went. Car trouble so he wanted to bring it home to sell it? Why not just sell it in WA? Needed it to be fixed? Just wanted a road trip with dear old dad?

What date did LE first announce they were looking for a white elantra?

 

[RainbowRoad]

The article states BK's father flew out to Idaho and accompanied BK back on the drive to PA, arriving in PA around December 17, according to BK's public defender. The article notes that police closely followed the vehicle on the drive back to PA. MOO- this indicates the police before around December 14 (assuming 3 day drive to PA) already knew BK was the POI/suspect. Likely were hoping to find him disposing of the knife at some point, IMO. It appears the police were surveilling BK for almost 3 weeks before the arrest-JMO. Kudos to LE for holding their cards very close, despite the Public hue and cry...really well done on the part of LE.

Wonder what they talked about on the drive home.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Does anyone else think he will give a full confession next week once he is presented with the evidence that will prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? He will be spared the death penalty and avoid dragging his parents through a long drawn out trial that will be painful and embarrassing. I think he will be rather proud to tell his story before America although he will avoid revealing the more painful and ego-bruising aspects he's been suppressing his whole life. I think he will plead guilty and spend the rest of his days working on his memoirs that no one will read or be interested in.

It has occured to me that his end goal might have been to be "famous". Even if he goes to jail, he still committed the crime and wasn't stopped from doing it. Gets a permanent spot in the "most horrible crimes" section. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

I wonder why his father would fly out to drive cross country with him? Why NOT pay to fly out your son for a Christmas break, wouldn't that be cheaper, faster, and safer? Avoid winter storms?

You are right. Driving in mid December is dicy, you could could hit a window of decent weather or not. MOO most post grad students fly home for the holidays due to that, they have projects ongoing and driving there and back sucks up 6 days of project time.

 

[BrownRice]

Odd that his father flew out and drove home with him. Pricey and time-consuming option, vs. BK just flying home on his own. I guess he just needed to get that car in PA? MOO.

Interesting. Where’d you see that?

 

[RANCH]

and left youtube or online streaming services running to give him an alibi.

And if he was really smart he would have damaged his steering column the way car thieves do and claim someone took his car for a joy ride the night of the killings and he wasn't in it.

Police across the country say Kias models newer than 2015 and Hyundais newer than 2012 are at risk.

Ignition design makes Hyundais and Kias easy to steal with USB cords | I-Team

Automakers have known about the defect and the trend of thefts for at least a year.

www.ksdk.com

 

[schooling]

Yes. Easily changed.

Most people attribute this kind of behavior to trolls. But in reality it's mostly black market account farmers/resellers.

Their sole goal is to build an authentic looking account with a high number of followers. So they can turn around and sell it. Buyers usually need aged and high follower accounts for a variety of reasons (mostly shady practices).

So if they add 10,000 additional Instagram followers from imitating BK and end up losing 9,500 of those who are paying attention. It was still worth it for the net of 500 followers.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[eloquence]

What date did LE first announce they were looking for a white elantra?

Dec 7th (source)

If he was driving back mid-December sounds like they identified him pretty quickly. Very impressive work given 22,000 cars mentioned!

 

[Millhouse]

I’ve thought a lot about this. PHD candidates aren’t a massive group on campus, regardless of field. The criminal justice candidates would be familiar with each other, even after one semester. They’d have similar schedules and likely cross paths walking in and out of the same buildings. Someone in his peer group knew he drove a white Elantra. Everyone within 100 miles driving one should have expected to be interviewed. Given the steady drip of comments regarding his behavior, I’d be stunned if LE had NOT been contacted by someone in his PHD circle. Would be interesting to know exactly if and when the alleged class discussion regarding the murders took place… did LE already have an eye on him? Could they have recordings? Interested to know how much the university knew/when they knew it and if there was any cooperation on their part.

I completed a PhD program (different field, different institution), and wanted to share my thoughts on this. PhD candidates aren't a massive group on campus, however, graduate students in different programs wouldn't necessarily know each other. It's likely he knew the other folks who joined the same program at the same time as him. However, it's common in my experience that graduate students further along in the program don't always know the newer students. Once PhD students finish coursework, the cohort vibe kind of fades away as everyone focuses on their own work.

On my campus, many graduate students did not drive to campus. Parking on campus was expensive and hard to obtain in the close lots. I wouldn't know what anyone in my graduate school group drove unless we happened to live near each other or went out somewhere else.

It will be interesting to see if any classmates reported him for anything he may have said or done.
This is MOO and just my experience, but many PhD programs have a few people in them who are just a bit "off" in some way. My program had a person who was always a bit of a loner, dropped out, came back, and then got caught stealing lab chemicals. Other programs on my campus would often have a few people that were more of loners or similar. It's just the nature of some of these programs- the type of work often attracts folks with some of these personality traits. But all that to say, it will be interesting if any of his behavior actually tipped over the more usual weirdness and was a red flag to anyone in his department.

 

[Walela]

I wonder why his father would fly out to drive cross country with him? Why NOT pay to fly out your son for a Christmas break, wouldn't that be cheaper, faster, and safer? Avoid winter storms?

Perhaps he intended to leave the car in PA and fly back to school. Maybe he didn't need it back at school because he had a bicycle or was going to walk to his office on campus. Maybe having an extra driver would make the trip quicker. I do wonder how much effort he put into cleaning the vehicle before his dad rode in it. I wouldn't think he would leave visible blood droplets or smears for his dad to find.
moo

 

[bestill]

I confess I have been wrapped up in real life and the holidays. Sorry if this has been discussed but do we know if any of the victims were victims of SA that night?

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Intellectual? Genius?

He drove 2000 miles to murder people (mostly of a demographic that tends to get a lot of attention when murdered - in other words, would have a lot of LE resources and general attention) in one of only 4 states in the country that not only does not permit the insanity defense*, but also permits the death penalty even if someone is deemed "guilty but insane." He's been arrested within a month-and-a-half because he drove most of the way across the country to a place his car and ID would almost certainly have stood out for the out-of-state aspect and the distance. He apparently used a car associateable with him while accessing gas stations modern enough (like most) to be video-capturing cars and plates of every single vehicle that swings through.

This man is not a genius; he's not even smart or clever. I doubt that his version of meticulous planning some seem to believe he undertook is much more than perhaps dwelling on certain details, possibly obsessively if the OCD thing is accurate clinically. Clearly he did not design a foolproof plan and if it was hyper-detailed, it appears he lacked the ability to discern what was most important and to think through potential flaws, because he missed a big one.

* mental condition can be considered but only to the extent of whether the defendant knew they were committing a crime (seemingly obviously not an issue here); the example the Supreme Court has given, iirc, for an example of the mental state that would meet the standard was someone killing someone they believed to be a wolf.

excellent post. You went many steps above and beyond what I have been saying. Totally agree.