ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 46

[everybodhi]

How long from now is the court appearance? I eagerly logged in after work as its Jan 3rd and realised the time zones got me…. Again!!

It’s just after 6 am now in their time zone, I believe the hearing is at 3:30 pm. So a bit over a 9 hour wait.
If you have a world clock on your phone, the court’s time is the same as NYC.

 

[Sandy007]

I stand corrected. They "surveilled" the house four days prior to the arrest. You could be right -- he may have been a POI for weeks.

I'm still leery of the local police, however, due to their early claim that the public was safe.

You should not be too harsh on them. There were reasons why they sent seemingly vague messages to the public.

They played some games. No, no to the public. To the person who, they were rather confident, did it.

When they knew it was him? Perhaps at the end of the first week, may be even at the end of the first day.

They received a tip-off about the car (LE confirmed that after the arrest) plus they had videos from cameras in close proximity to 1122 King (confirmed, too).

Once, they knew the car, they continued to check other videos to confirm that that car was at the area before (its driver observing and stalking) and at the time of murders.

They also knew that that car were never in the area again, after the murders, jmo.

But they also knew who is driving the car and they knew he is PhD student in criminology, almost a collegue. They had to play him, whilst investigating him, to assure he will stay calm believing that he is not a POI nor under suspicious.

The game was cleverly played as LE knew their opponent is clever, educated, with professional expertise in criminology.

Mice and cat game. Hard one.

Simultaneously checking all other leads, tip-ofds (almost 20,000), collecting information on BK etc

Some of LE messages said during the press conferences were directed to BK, as POI. Some of them were intentionally red herrings, putting BK on slippery surface and falsely assuring him he is not under suspicious. But that were the rules of the game!

What i am trying to say is that not everything we see is what it was. And a lot of things we did not see at all, only few we could guess about.

LE and FBI were above and beyond. If you live in ID, then you have all reasons to be proud of your LE and your community, they were marvelous.

 

[ilovewings]

Maybe she was just mistaken, not lying.

Brian Entin tweeted that when he checked on the story, he was told the inmate who was ranting and exposing himself was a different inmate. (The relevant tweet is posted somewhere earlier in this thread.)

Knowing that BK was in that jail somewhere, the source may have merely assumed the "crazy inmate" must be the suspected killer. Seems like she should have asked a guard, but I've never been to jail and don't know the protocols.

I don't believe that story which is now at the NY Post---

 

[Nova]

Once for speeding, then for following too closely, both times in Indiana? Sounds like he was in a big hurry to leave.

“I just know that they were pulled over in Indiana almost back to back. I believe once for speeding and once for following too closely to a car in front of them,” Monroe County, Pa., attorney Jason LaBar told local Idaho station KTVB on Sunday."
MSN

I wonder if LE (FBI or in Idaho) were trying to locate BK's car en route to PA.

Is it possible a request was sent to Indiana highway patrol to stop and use a pretense to verify identities of occupants, and in their enthusiasm, the second stop was somebody from Indiana LE who didn't realize a colleague had already fulfilled the request?

I have family in Indy. Indiana is pretty narrow; I think one can drive across the entire state (West to East) in 2 or 2.5 hours!

 

[cottonweaver]

We have to use common sense. THERE IS NO WAY they stake this guy out across the country and arrest him and extradite him back to Idaho UNLESS they had blood DNA that ties him to the crime scene.

If there was any other kind of DNA, saliva, hair, urine whatever, anything other than blood, they'd probably ask anybody to vouch for whether he'd ever possibly be at that house and if everybody said they didn't know him, the very least they'd do is execute a search warrant at his apartment, car and house in pennsylvania before possibly arresting him if they found anything incriminating.

They straight up arrested the dude. Believe you me....there's blood evidence with his DNA.

what about, for instance, one of his broken hairs laying atop the pooled blood of a victim, mitochondrial DNA which was sent for genealogical analysis? Wouldn't that be enough?

 

[Simply Southern]

Attys on ID. “Capital Counsel Roster”???
Pasting this post by @10ofRods (SBM) from previous thread
" ...a death penalty case, the public defender must be a "death penalty certified" public defender (something like that) and that the defendant must have TWO such public defenders.
Apparently Latah County has zero such public defenders. This means some major reassignments of public defenders (from Boise County?) That is, if they decide to go for the death penalty and there is a trial. Surely they will initially file the case requesting the death penalty, as I believe Idaho citizens would expect that (I'm guessing more than half the nation expects it).
I'd love to hear more about this, will try to research."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
@10ofRods
Briefly ID. is not busting at the seams w attys approved by the st Public Defense Commission to defend capital cases.

Not quite so briefly.
QUALIFICATIONS* are set by an ID commission and atty must completd & submit application form** to commission for review and possible inclusion on the st’s “Capital Counsel Roster.”**

HOW MANY on the CCR list? It currently shows ~ 29 attys total (designating them by "Dist. of Resid." not county altho county name may be reflected in some atty's email addresses).
List shows only ~13 attys qualified as "LEAD TRIAL for capital cases, more as "CO-COUNSEL TRIAL."
Seems the limited number of Lead Trial attys could be a bottleneck, but IDK.

Also shows attys for Post-Conviction Relief, but we don't wanna get ahead of ourselves here, do,we?
Also BTW, city of Boise is in Ada County, not Boise County.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise,_Idaho. Who knew?
Hopes this helps.
________________________________________
* Qualifications "to represent indigent defendants in cases where the death penalty may be or has been imposed on the defendant."
"Attorneys must demonstrate their qualifications and compliance with the following:
IDAPA 61.01.02, Requirements and Procedures for Representing Indigent Persons
The American Bar Association’s (ABA) Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases (2003)
The American Bar Association’s (ABA) Supplementary Guidelines for Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty Cases (2008)."

**The application for atty to submit to the commission.

Capital Defending Attorney Qualifications and Roster

pdc.idaho.gov

*** Current list ww atty names, etc:
"Capital Counsel Roster
Approved by the Public Defense Commission as of December 15, 2022."

https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/IdahoCapitalCounselRoster20221215.pdf

MOO...The case will be held in Federal Court. It becomes felony murder once BK crossed the state line to commit the act.

https://id.fd.org

 

[AngTxGal]

Speculation on my part:

First I apologize if this has.been discussed. I’m several pages behind the active posts/ page.

I’m reading discussions about the JBOX meal, thinking about DNA, X and E’s timeline, discussions about car with possible DNA inside. Thinking about these pieces lead into this speculation:

Is it possible that BK was driver for food delivery or in some way got X and E into his car to deliver them with the food? Or any combination of the above. Deliver food; deliver food with one victim or both victims. Then possibly waiting around to get into the home later?

He could possibly try to use that as a reason for their DNA in his car, or on the food bag or being near their home.

ALL SPECULATION AND OPINION ON MY PART. Just typing out loud as ‘food for thought’

No need to disagree. Scroll by if needed.

It makes sense that X&E may have driven to another city to get JnBox meal and that drive would explain some of the missing time.
I can’t see any reason BCK would be delivering food, no evidence of such a job
I also can’t see why anyone would be inside the car of a food delivery person.
Evidence is still being collected from his car and apartment- there will be plenty to convict.

The media has done the public a disservice by presenting him as some brilliant mastermind, comparing him to murderers who eluded LE for decades.
He is Not that at all

The reality I see is..
Four promising young lives were brutally stolen- By A Jealous Angry Murderous Loser

JMO

 

[Pink2017]

He looks more malnourished or just too thin. His eyes look about the same in every photo I've seen. I'm not ruling drugs out, just seeing an extremely thin individual, with an unsettling countenance.

Vegan diet could account for the weight loss.

 

[AngTxGal]

what about, for instance, one of his broken hairs laying atop the pooled blood of a victim, mitochondrial DNA which was sent for genealogical analysis? Wouldn't that be enough?

A single drop of the blood of BCK having fallen during attack onto one of the victims
A hair on one of the victims
That would be enough, but that isn’t all they have

Now with his name they will find evidence in his car, apartment, computer

JMO- 4 death penalty sentences

 

[Pink2017]

yikes. no filters, older camera and blown up (my screen is big) plus poor fashion choices? His current photos are very different

He looks awful!

 

[Pink2017]

I can see this too....when I was in college, never paid attention to the current news....was too busy with studies, social life....watched very little news on TV.....In fact I think the whole 4 years of the Carter Administration passed by without my noticing.

Present day, I can see it also....I have a neighbor that I mentioned this case to, and he looked at me like I was talking a foreign language...just completely oblivious to current news.

Same here. Acquaintance thought it was a “weird conversation” to be having as I was making small talk with a young lady I assumed everybody was aware of this tragedy. Lessons learned.

 

[AngTxGal]

True, but his friends and neighbours would have known he drove a car like that, even if he was out of town.

His friends and parents, sisters, and other relatives would know he was in the area near Moscow and also drove a white Elantra
One of them may have tipped him in

JMO

 

[NCgardener]

LoCan someone update me on this? Who uploaded DNA? Amazing that they found this so fast. And it’s crazy to me that so many vilified LE for not solving this case sooner. Hell, compared to other cases this has been pretty quick.

Lots of news sources have reported that the killer was found through familial DNA from public registries. Someone in his family matched enough with the DNA from the crime scene, apparently!

Then he also was driving the Elantra that is tied to the crime (presumably the same car, naturally, lol). He used that car at his college only a few miles away from the students' house.

 

[AngTxGal]

This ^^^ guy was a PHD researcher, local to the crime, and he never knew they were looking for an Elantra? wow....

That sounds pretty typical, a PhD student involved in their research- especially if their area is the hard sciences or math- is not up on local news or world events

He likely knew about the crime, as it was so close, but not details

Not surprising at all
Did you know that the same week these murders happened NASA sent a rocket to orbit the moon, as the first step in sending manned missions to Mars?
Likely most on here had not been keeping up with that news- it isn‘t their interest
JMO

 

[Nova]

So Apparently BK was a teacher’s assistant known to grade papers very harshly according to most students interviewed. However, many students said in the weeks leading up to the murder and the weeks after the murder he started giving all students on their papers perfect 100 scores. One student interviewed seemed perplexed as to why. However, looking back the student says I guess he was giving all those 100 scores to students because he was to preoccupied with other things to fully read, analyze, and grade the papers.

If the report is true, BK's "boss" (i.e., the prof for whom he was TA) humiliated BK by making him stand in front of the entire 150 students in the class to defend his grading in response to their charges that he was too strict.

Giving every paper or exam 100 points thereafter is just a prolonged tantrum, IMHO. "If you don't like my high standards, I'll just inflate everybody's grade!" But I can't say I blame him (for the grading tantrum); frankly, as a former professor who has supervised many teaching assistants, I was shocked to read a professor did that to a TA.

The professor should have met with BK--or with the entire TA team if there were multiple graders--privately and discussed standards. If necessary, the prof might have asked a few of the students who complained to meet with BK under the prof's supervision to arbitrate between student and grader expectations.

But making any TA--particularly one in his first term--defend his work product in public on the ground that it would be "like trial experience" is highly unethical in my view. (I say this as someone who was a TA for several years and then a professor supervising assistants until I retired.)

NOTE: it isn't either/or. BK could have decided it wasn't worth the trouble to seriously grade whining students if he didn't have the prof's support AND he may have been distracted after murdering four people in such a heinous fashion. It is also possible--given that other grad students have said BK had a tendency to pick fights with faculty over even the smallest difference of opinion--that the prof took the public action because s/he was unable to get through to BK any other way.

ETA: I am NOT in any way saying BK's "boss" is to blame for the murders. The way the grading issue was handled may have added to BK's stress (for which he allegedly decompensated by acting out violently), but I suspect BK was already under considerable stress in his first time at a school so far from home.

 

[sleuther123]

@pittsburghgirl The last thread closed before I could respond to your question about why the dad should have to provide proof of buying a plane ticket before the murders. First, I feel like you think I’m implicating his father, and I absolutely am not. I have said several times I don’t think his parents knew anything, and I feel so bad for them. I only think it’s relevant because if it was a hastily planned trip to get that car out of there after LE said they’re looking for a white Elantra, it’s just one more indication of BK’s guilt.
I don’t know who bought the ticket, but really the only way to prove it was pre planned is for the plane ticket to have been obtained before LE was looking for the car. If it was bought later, it’s really just BK telling his lawyer that. Either way, I mean this as an indication of BK’s guilt—not his father’s. I think he asked his father to come, and I don’t think his father knew anything.
All I’m saying is right now we only have BK’s word through his lawyer that they had this trip to take the car to PA at Christmas pre planned and I’m not accepting that as fact only coming from him. It may very well be the case though, and that’s fine.

I agree. Even if it was a hastily planned trip, I don't think his father was involved. BK probably wouldn't let on to his family his other side and he will continue to deny it.

 

[Simply Southern]

That is the one thing that threw me off. They initially said the public was safe. I for sure thought they had an idea who did it and that it was a targeted crime of passion. Since it turned out to be this sadist, psychopathic killer, I’m speechless that they would make that claim. I’m also disappointed that the reporter who interviewed chief Frye after bk was caught didn’t bring this up.

I'm sure in hindsight, this is a big regret. I feel he made the decision based on the crime scene, training, and most of the time it works out. Once LE collected more data/video/processed crime scene they did issue a warning. But, as in the case of VT, things are not always as they seem. We do the best we can, at the time.

Virginia Tech police made the same mistake, based on crime scene. Initially Seung-Hui Cho, shot two students in a West AJ dorm, leading LE to believe a lovers quarrel. He returned to his room, changed clothes, sent emails, reload, mailed a package to NBC, etc. Two hours later additional shots fired killing 30 more, in 4 classrooms, Norris Hall.

Virginia Tech shooting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Cool Cats]

The only reason I think it's odd that he's a vegan is the type of crime he is suspected to have committed. One would think that if it's wrong to kill and eat animals it would be wrong to murder four humans. JMO.

There are plenty of killers who won't kill pets and love their own pets but will kill people. The family of 4 in Ohio who killed a family of 8 people were described by their pastor as people who "wept over dogs." They left all the guard dogs alive at the 4 murder scenes and had pet dogs of their own.

Bryan Kohberger has been charged with four counts of murder in the first degree and felony burglary in the deaths of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Kaylee Gonclaves and Madison Mogen.

There are 11 aggravating circumstances of a Idaho murder that qualify a convicted murderer for the Idaho Death Penalty.

Quoting just a few:
......
(2) At the time the murder was committed the defendant also committed another murder.
......
5) The murder was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel, manifesting exceptional depravity.
......
(7) The murder was committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem and the defendant killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life.
......
Bolding and underlining by me

The entire list can be viewed at

Aggravating Factors by State

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

JMO

This reminds me he is charged with burglary. I wonder what he took with him? I assume he took something with him from the house.

He has been charged with four counts of first-degree murder, plus felony burglary.

 

[everybodhi]

Link? I didn’t think it sounded accurate based on BK’s lawyer’s comments, but that’s kind of crazy to lie and put your face in the media like that!

..and let the entire world know you are in jail for a domestic violence charge while you’re at it!

 

[Nova]

I believe it's been mentioned that Idaho does not recognize the insanity plea. If so, I guess he failed to do his research.

Per previous posts, that's technically true but not the whole story. Reports (cited previously in this thread) have said that although a defendant can't be ruled "not guilty by reason of insanity", Idaho has a similar verdict called "guilty but insane". Per the same reports both verdicts result in the convicted defendant being sent to a mental hospital rather than state prison.

What I have NOT seen thus far is any info on whether someone found "guilty but insane" in ID can be released at a future date if doctors decide s/he is not longer a danger to himself or others. Such a result is usually attached to "not guilty by reason of insanity" verdicts, and is a big reason, I suspect, why the "insanity defense" so rarely succeeds.