ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

[Lalalacasbah]

Thats a scary thought. Government control of the press. I could believe it tho.

No idea if that's a thing... but not necessarily to censor but more a strategy to protect and help investigation to get killer to slip up. I agree, the media control is frightening!

 

[elainebenice]

I don't know about residents of Moscow, ID. But, I do know that if my daughter was going there now, we would be looking at transfer for next semester. Especially since the perpetrator has not been caught.

Yes, bad things happen every where. And Moscow, ID seems to be one of the safest places in the world, until it is not.

As someone who grew up in the FL panhandle, I'll never forget the fall of my 7th grade year because that's when the Gainesville murders happened and every single person going to school there from my small hometown ended up coming home for the rest of that semester. It was a very scary time.
Interesting thing to remember about that case, LE identified Ed Humphrey within days as the prime suspect in the case as he was being held in jail on other charges and he was widely believed to be the perp until the end of January 1991 when Rolling was officially named as the new prime suspect after receiving a miraculous tip from a citizen who thought he could've been the perp.

 

[nightowl2728]

Just my own thoughts--
It still bothers me that LE is saying that the victims were asleep. How can they possibly know that? There's no "sleep test". They were in their rooms, and apparently in bed, but I don't think that's an automatic "sleep".
The other thing I wonder about: LE says all 4 were stabbed in their chest (didn't say back, or any other parts of their body). What are the chances, even if they were asleep, that all 4 were coincidentally on their backs? For a side sleeper, I would think that the killer would have an awkward angle to do the stabbing. For stomach sleepers, they would have had to flip them over to get them in stabbing position. And in the dark of night, how did the killer see where they were stabbing, anyway?

Maybe there is some forensic evidence that would show that. Or they don't know but are saying that to throw off perp.

 

[redcedarblues]

I get the impression they really did need to appeal for more sightings, video, photos (including photos and videos with things “missing” from them). They need the coverage and they want that appeal out.

I agree. I think they are trying to piece together a timeline of people out in the streets.

 

[ShadyLady]

I think there is relevance to where X&E were after frat party/before coming home. Maybe perp was there, something happened with perp to trigger, etc. And that's why that information hasn't been released. I'm sure anyone connected with them socially would have some idea of where they were at that time

It bothers me if LE is not looking for security videos even before 12pm, as perp might have already been inside home....waiting. And did he canvass his escape route on prior days....

 

[Prattastic]

I myself am thinking all the calls to J are because the dog was missing when they got home. I personally believe the killer was already there and let the dog out so that it did not cause a disturbance during his crimes (neighbors reported to local and national news they heard no noise at all coming from this house that night, and they were used to regularly hearing whatever was going on over there) and that's why Kaylee and Maddie called J a lot of times, over and over again, until 2:53am. This explains as well why Maddie joined in on calling J. Also explains why she'd say something along the lines of, "This dog is both of ours together", the text that her parents told the news about. The police made a mention of locating the dog, and "gave him to a responsible party", now this poor, sweet puppy is back with J.

I see a big thing on Websleuths is stating when something is your opinion, and I'd like to say, this is my personal opinion. I think it makes sense and fits all of the blank spaces within the set of facts.

But would everybody just go to bed with the dog still missing? Wouldn’t you check with your downstairs roommates and wouldn’t everyone get up and start searching outside for the missing pup?

 

[Notthisshipsister]

Fitbits? Apple Watches? None of the victims seem to wear them though from what I can see in photos of them.

Thank you, I don't use either of those so I'm not really familiar with them being able to track sleep. But then all 4 would have had to be wearing one

 

[Cottonn]

Maybe the “what you don’t see” or “what’s not there” means something is missing from the crime scene that should be there? Sort of like when the Ramsey’s were suspects because fingerprints were allegedly wiped from their flashlight and its batteries and one would think the owner of the flashlight would have their fingerprints all over it?

 

[layer]

It bothers me if LE is not looking for security videos even before 12pm, as perp might have already been inside home....waiting.

That's exactly how I feel.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

It bothers me if LE is not looking for security videos even before 12pm, as perp might have already been inside home....waiting. And did he canvass his escape route on prior days....

I keep wondering about that, too, that maybe the killer was already in side of the house and didn't "slip in" as a number of people have suggested, when the dog was (possibly) let out

 

[positive]

No idea if that's a thing... but not necessarily to censor but more a strategy to protect and help investigation to get killer to slip up. I agree, the media control is frightening!

It would violate our norm of freedom of press. You made a nice hypothesis. Would be interested to know if this has ever happened but I assume if it did the press would have reported on it! lol

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

The second photo makes me wonder if the Good Vibes LED sign was on when the murders took place (apologies if this has been discussed, trying to keep up!). It also makes me wonder if any other decorative lights were left on in the house, I know when I was younger and living with roommates, we usually left fairy lights/beer signs on at night. That would definitely help visibility if a stranger were walking through the house.

I remember on Day 1 seeing pics (Moscow-Pullman Daily News Breaking News) of the outside fairy lights on & the wreath of the front door - broke my heart. In one pic of a MPD officer looking out of the slider, it also looked like there were fairy lights inside the kitchen area.

It’s possible the cops had turned on the fairy lights after arrival, but that feels unlikely at that very early stage (within 3 hours, give or take after discovery) MOO & perhaps more likely they were routinely left on day/night. Always possible the housemates regularly turned them off during the day, but didn’t have a chance that day :*-(

A subsequent photo seems to verify there were interior fairy lights inside around that slider.

Might/might not shed some light on the murderer(s) ability to have some visibility inside without turning on lights, MOO

 

[Blue_Painting]

Maybe the “what you don’t see” or “what’s not there” means something is missing from the crime scene that should be there? Sort of like when the Ramsey’s were suspects because fingerprints were allegedly wiped from their flashlight and its batteries and one would think the owner of the flashlight would have their fingerprints all over it?

The scene was cleaned up somewhat IN MY OPINION

 

[layer]

This reminds me of all those Delphi press conferences when it seemed like they had zilch, even though they acted like they were all over it. And, as it turned out... they had zilch.

 

[Fascinated1]

Of every statement made, I found this most interesting. I am torn as to whether this is meaningful or just an odd phrasing.
It sounds like a riddle but I highly doubt there was intent.

Things you might NOT see that would matter: someone not in a group photo where you'd expect them, someone who had been at an event and then was unexpectedly absent, something that was missing from the house, something that is missing from a secondary location.

Odd.

This makes me think of a fraternity/sorority connection-maybe because of the specific mention of group photos and events..but def geared to more of a college crowd. It was a football weekend. It was senior day and we know there were frat parties. This makes me think that Maybe they don’t know who did this. Unless it was a way of telling people to look for specific evidence to report to them to build their case. I was really believing they had more than they were letting on to-because to have nothing and to give no useful info on the safety of the area seems just way too incompetent. So maybe it is their way of telling the public that what WE don’t see is meaningful. They are NOT offering rewards. They are NOT telling the university to go virtual. They are NOT telling the public to do anything out of the ordinary or different from a safety perspective. There ARE people who have disappeared from social media and groups. There ARE people who were out of town and maybe not where they were supposed to be. I do think this was designed to make someone nervous. If they have zero why not use this to announce a reward for more info?

 

[slanda]

I can see it this way but why no sexual assault? These are intimate murders, or seem to be, so I can't wrap my brain around this unless the killer is female (how did she overpower all of them, even in the dark with drink or drugs in their systems) or unless the target was Ethan. He would be easier to kill in a house with five women rather than a frat house filled with adult males. With Ethan as target, Xana would have to die. But then there's the question of why go upstairs to kill Kaylee and Maddie. The lack of sexual assault makes this look so much different.... does anyone recall another set of murders similar to these?

The killer could have definitely had sexual gratification even though there was not an actual assault. Also, based on the requirement of sheer strength and endurance it would require to stab through bones/breastplates while potentially fighting 4 different victims leads me to thoroughly believe this is a male subject.

As I’ve said since the beginning, I think this was a “Thrill-Kill” which is a psychological serial killer subtype. Thrill killers have a specific MO and reason for their crimes and are usually so random, they’re extremely difficult to catch: Think Isreal Keyes or the Night Stalker, Ramirez.

More on thrill killers here: What are the different types of serial killers? - Psychology of Psychopaths 2a

There is a term criminologists used called piquerism : “Piquerism is a sexual interest in penetrating the skin of another person with sharp objects. Sometimes, this is serious enough to cause extreme injuries or even death. Piquerism is a paraphilia as well as a form of sadism. The most frequently targeted areas of the body are the breasts, buttocks, and groin.” Wikipedia

The most famous case of this was Jack the Ripper, but I think there was more of a physical actual sexual assault component but not with every victim IIRC.

Rollings and Bundy both obviously went into houses filled with women and committed murders but there was obvious signs of SA.

Here is a screenshot of the first page of a Case Study of piquerism that is very interesting.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/1556-4029.14885#jfo14885-sec-0002-title

All of this information is something to think about considering there are 2 behavioral units from the FBI and no suspects/POI’s right now: It seems they’re concerned with what they saw.

 

[Louise369]

Maybe the “what you don’t see” or “what’s not there” means something is missing from the crime scene that should be there? Sort of like when the Ramsey’s were suspects because fingerprints were allegedly wiped from their flashlight and its batteries and one would think the owner of the flashlight would have their fingerprints all over it?

He was just defending his investigation with this comment. This statement wasn’t a riddle or clue regarding the murders …it was him saying that the amount of investigation we are seeing on the surface is just a snippet of what is going on behind the scenes “what we (the public )don’t see”

 

[redcedarblues]

When asked about what people could do to not be targeted, nothing was mentioned about "making sure to lock your doors, windows, etc." A few possibilities: 1) It was not a question they had ahead of time and he may have just not thought of it off-the-cuff; 2) They know the person entered using a door code/key so locking up wouldn't have helped; or 3) They didn't want to give something away about the crime scene that the perp entered through an unlocked door.

I am curious where in the house the dog was located. I wish someone would have asked, though likely they would not have been able to answer.

I think you are right and it could have been all of these to some extent. they really biffed the question. They could just preface it like "its important to take as many safety precautions as possible. No one precautuon is a fail safe however engaging in as many as possible can help to deter crime. Basic precautions such as locking your doors and windows, closing your blinds particularly at night, let people know where you are going, invest in a security system, window blockers and and motion activated lights. Pay attention to where you are going. Carry mace and consider sleeping with it next to you. "

 

[Balthazar]

Of every statement made, I found this most interesting. I am torn as to whether this is meaningful or just an odd phrasing.
It sounds like a riddle but I highly doubt there was intent.

Things you might NOT see that would matter: someone not in a group photo where you'd expect them, someone who had been at an event and then was unexpectedly absent, something that was missing from the house, something that is missing from a secondary location.

Odd.

Just thinking about this. There were 6 bedrooms in this house and apparently only 5 girls living there. Were they alluding to whoever used to have the 6th bedroom?

 

[annpats]

People think that cops can solve cases in one hour, including commercials.

Not at all, but we were hoping they'd have more after this amount of time.