ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

[BootBoneBellBall]

It bothers me if LE is not looking for security videos even before 12pm, as perp might have already been inside home....waiting. And did he canvass his escape route on prior days....

It makes me think that the police have more confidence in this case than they are letting on. Kind of based on a theory that one of the girls made a guy angry at a bar/party, and the killer followed home afterwards. Therefore, they're not asking for security for a wider range of time. They have some story in their head of what was going on based on the amount of tips and interviews they've gotten. All speculation though.

 

[AneutherSleuther]

Thank you, I don't use either of those so I'm not really familiar with them being able to track sleep. But then all 4 would have had to be wearing one

Yeah I have both. AFAIK they use your breathing and heart rate to work out what cycle of sleep you are in. Apple Watches are big and chunky, I don’t see them in any photos. My Fitbit is more elegant, looks like a slim ladies watch, but again I don’t see anything like that in the photos. I just see friendship bracelet/bead type things.

I am in the UK, tech might be better in the US (I always imagine it is) but I also thought most young people were tech savvy and had all these gadgets so idk ‍

 

[nightowl2728]

It bothers me if LE is not looking for security videos even before 12pm, as perp might have already been inside home....waiting. And did he canvass his escape route on prior days....

Maybe they already have that footage but are looking for footage of perp leaving in order to build case?

 

[annpats]

The police do not, generally, show up until after something has happened. That's the way it is, so I would have to say that if you are looking for the police to protect you then, no, you are not safe.

Exactly!
The police are reactive, not pro-active.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

MOO Wonder if someone had planned a future with one of the victims and had purchased a ring for proposing in a narrow window of opportunity but was rebuffed/rejected.

 

[newredtabby]

My bet is almost assuredly that the perp knew the house, visited it as a prowler while the victims were away or as a friend/acquaintance. You rarely go in a place like that armed with just a knife without scouting the place in advance. It's an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing for the killer to do and albeit there are some people like that out there, this crimes seems way more organized and deliberate to me.

We don't know the killer only had a knife.

 

[annpats]

It bothers me if LE is not looking for security videos even before 12pm, as perp might have already been inside home....waiting. And did he canvass his escape route on prior days....

Did you mean 12am??
00.00hrs. (midnight).

??

 

[Chelly]

There is a good chance killer is following this case as closely as we are. I imagine killer would love to hear the 911 call.

 

[L.laricina]

They look like the plans submitted for building development in 2018-19.

Otto, were you ever able to find a record of that renovation? I checked Moscow Planning and Zoning's permit records but was unable to find a permit for construction at that location. I was hoping there would be a set of as-built prints online. There site is not automated, though and I wasn't going through the PDFs for more that 24 months.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

At the college I attended, back more than 40 years ago, one of the students dressed in buckskins and wore both a bowie knife and a tomahawk on his belt, every day on campus. He was a rustic type from Jackson County, KY, and we viewed him as harmless, if a bit eccentric. I imagine that such a thing would not be accepted nowadays.

One of my friends there on campus had grown up without much and for a while, as a student, lived off campus in an old school bus. He never wore shoes, no matter how cold the weather; I have many memories of seeing him walk around barefoot in snow and single-digit temperatures.

Berea College comes to mind (a friend’s brother attended almost 30 years ago ) ….

 

[NickoD]

Not at all, but we were hoping they'd have more after this amount of time.

They very well might. The integrity of the investigation must be preserved to ensure a proper conviction. Those two things go together. Otherwise any first year law student can mount a winning defense and the dude walks.

We are not entitled to details. I get the frustration though so I empathize with both sides.

 

[Karebear20]

I agree that in responding to how students can stay safe, it should have been said that they must keep their doors locked, close the window curtains or blinds, and not give out keypad codes to one and all.

We all know that they were already traveling in pairs and that didn't help them.

I know dorm culture typically has a doors open, free-flowing "everyone is welcome to hang out"" policy, but the time for that just has to be over, for safety's sake.

I'm a New Yorker, all my life, and we all have multiple locks on all doors. It's a point of pride in many small towns to say "oh, we never even lock our doors here," but a killer can be anywhere and IMO a cultural shift must sadly take place. Even for LE to not mention these basic safety measures implies to me a safe town with basic trust in each other. Clearly that would be lovely but is not practical anymore.

Jmo

I agree that in responding to how students can stay safe, it should have been said that they must keep their doors locked, close the window curtains or blinds, and not give out keypad codes to one and all.

We all know that they were already traveling in pairs and that didn't help them.

I know dorm culture typically has a doors open, free-flowing "everyone is welcome to hang out"" policy, but the time for that just has to be over, for safety's sake.

I'm a New Yorker, all my life, and we all have multiple locks on all doors. It's a point of pride in many small towns to say "oh, we never even lock our doors here," but a killer can be anywhere and IMO a cultural shift must sadly take place. Even for LE to not mention these basic safety measures implies to me a safe town with basic trust in each other. Clearly that would be lovely but is not practical anymore.

Jmo

But it wasn’t a dorm. It was a private off campus home

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes. I have wondered about the photo of the 6 of them that was taken the day of the murders. Who took that photo???

So curious too.

 

[elainebenice]

Just my own thoughts--
It still bothers me that LE is saying that the victims were asleep. How can they possibly know that? There's no "sleep test". They were in their rooms, and apparently in bed, but I don't think that's an automatic "sleep".
The other thing I wonder about: LE says all 4 were stabbed in their chest (didn't say back, or any other parts of their body). What are the chances, even if they were asleep, that all 4 were coincidentally on their backs? For a side sleeper, I would think that the killer would have an awkward angle to do the stabbing. For stomach sleepers, they would have had to flip them over to get them in stabbing position. And in the dark of night, how did the killer see where they were stabbing, anyway?

Not to be overly graphic, but blood and body position is how they can know whether or not they were asleep. If they are still in bed (maybe even under the covers), majority of the blood is pooled directly beneath their body, their wounds are limited to the torso stabs and the only other blood in the room is the result of the killer's entrance/exit(could have other blood on him as he entered 2nd room)/cast off from stabbing, then they know the victims were asleep or at the very least weren't awake long enough to take any preventative action against the attacker. If they're laying on their stomachs, under the covers, and the stabs are directly through the blankets/sheets then they were asleep.

 

[Zinn]

I think he meant photos taken that night. Maybe at student parties.

Then when spoken about objects missing, the knife is the obvious thing to come to mind.

He was being deliberately vague, though. He only wants people close to the suspects to understand him.

I’d add any forms of transportation that are normally parked somewhere overnight but were missing for a period of time. Perhaps also outerwear that normally is on a coatrack or in a closet but vanished temporarily or permanently. Shoes, too. Eyeglasses that were the norm but might have broken so no longer being worn. Phone with broken screen. Anything damaged or missing either temporarily or since that evening.

I also hope people might mention mundane behaviors but at odd hours such as doing laundry in the middle of the night in the wee hours of that Sunday.

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

"You need to stay with a friend," per the Captain when asked what students should do to prevent being targeted.

Ha. I had the same conversation with local sheriffs once when my sister was targeted and they refused to arrest the guy (separate vent).
Me: "How can we make sure she's safe?"
Sheriff: "Hmm. Can you stay with her?"
Me: "...so you'll have two victims instead of one? Do I look like a bodyguard?"
Sheriff: "Good point."
(They then shrugged.)

 

[ShadyLady]

Did you mean 12am??
00.00hrs. (midnight).

??

I'm always confused which it is....I meant 3-4 hours before the murders. And even prior days.

Why does 12am come before 1am? So confusing.

 

[MikeHammer911]

What puzzled me is that the killings happened straight above the two surviving girls bedrooms, but they didn't got alerted by the noise. Heavy sleepers?

 

[Notthisshipsister]

Not to be overly graphic, but blood and body position is how they can know whether or not they were asleep. If they are still in bed (maybe even under the covers), majority of the blood is pooled directly beneath their body, their wounds are limited to the torso stabs and the only other blood in the room is the result of the killer's entrance/exit(could have other blood on him as he entered 2nd room)/cast off from stabbing, then they know the victims were asleep or at the very least weren't awake long enough to take any preventative action against the attacker. If they're laying on their stomachs, under the covers, and the stabs are directly through the blankets/sheets then they were asleep.

Thank you, I did know about body position, etc. I just don't know that they were asleep. There are lots of other things to do under the covers aside from sleeping

 

[Curiosa20]

The killer could have definitely had sexual gratification even though there was not an actual assault. Also, based on the requirement of sheer strength and endurance it would require to stab through bones/breastplates while potentially fighting 4 different victims leads me to thoroughly believe this is a male subject.

As I’ve said since the beginning, I think this was a “Thrill-Kill” which is a psychological serial killer subtype. Thrill killers have a specific MO and reason for their crimes and are usually so random, they’re extremely difficult to catch: Think Isreal Keyes or the Night Stalker, Ramirez.

More on thrill killers here: What are the different types of serial killers? - Psychology of Psychopaths 2a

There is a term criminologists used called piquerism : “Piquerism is a sexual interest in penetrating the skin of another person with sharp objects. Sometimes, this is serious enough to cause extreme injuries or even death. Piquerism is a paraphilia as well as a form of sadism. The most frequently targeted areas of the body are the breasts, buttocks, and groin.” Wikipedia

The most famous case of this was Jack the Ripper, but I think there was more of a physical actual sexual assault component but not with every victim IIRC.

Rollings and Bundy both obviously went into houses filled with women and committed murders but there was obvious signs of SA.

Here is a screenshot of the first page of a Case Study of piquerism that is very interesting. View attachment 382194

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/1556-4029.14885#jfo14885-sec-0002-title

All of this information is something to think about considering there are 2 behavioral units from the FBI and no suspects/POI’s right now: It seems they’re concerned with what they saw.

Thank you!