ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

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Sister Golden Hair said:
First post, so I hope I don't mess this up, and I apologize for the length but I just wanted to get all the comments from my head into one place. I’ve been watching and reading (though unable to keep up it’s moving so fast). JMO: I do not think that this was an acquaintance who just got upset. I do not think this was just a jealous boyfriend. It takes more than fortitude to slaughter four people in this style. The fact that an obvious suspect has not been identified means that these murders are different than the norm, and today's pc didn't dissuade me from my opinion, but ICBW & hope I am.

I think this guy is a prepared thrill killer/serial guy who has been watching and waiting for a while. He may have left a lot of DNA from the victims and a bloody mess, but the “mess” seems to have been limited to the areas where the murders took place, not all over the house. Here are some thoughts and what may be a plausible scenario.

It’s not his first killing. Animals, of course, but (and this is only a guess), there is also at least one human victim prior to this. Those humans would may be those unlikely to be missed (homeless, prostitute, etc.), taken so that he could practice his trade unnoticed. Obvs in another town, maybe another state. This killing, though, I think he wanted to announce his presence to authorities, show how smart and skilled he is, esp if he didn't get enough notice before. Four people-that's brazen, that's a big calling card. Maybe that’s why LE (via the families, etc.) used the “made a mess” statement to bait him, hoping he'd respond. He’ll love all of the focus, but maybe irked by that “sloppy” remark, because (his thinking) if he’s so sloppy, why no footprints in and out? Why wasn’t there blood on the doors? How did he murder four people so easily and leave no obvious signs for the two he left alive?

He’d have watched, waited, practiced. From the wooded area behind the house at night, from social venues where he was able to unobtrusively follow these girls. On social media. He’d have eaten at the Mad Greek to see them in person. Paid cash, of course. He’d have done several recons to make sure he knew their patterns. He may have even been in the house when they were gone.

He’d have a full kit packed -a small, unobtrusive backpack. Shoe covers, maybe a buzz cut, but not totally shaved head and hair net w/double-sided wig tape to scalp so it couldn’t fall off, OVOS gloves, mask (don’t want to leave spittle). I think he’d go early and on foot for most or all of the way. He’d wait in the wooded area behind the house, prep there, not wait in the house, because of risk of discovery. Easier to get in while they’re asleep rather than get out if discovered while they were still awake. Getting caught for a B&E would ruin his future plans.

I think he’d have gone in through the second floor sliding door after he was sure everyone was asleep, not through the first door with the keypad, even though he might know their code. I believe the first floor only has one possible exit. He would not let himself be trapped. On the second floor, he would have three potential door exits. Even on the 3rd floor, more options and he’s in good shape, so he could jump from the third story window or deck, if needed.

He’d go to the second floor bedroom first. E, the biggest and potentially undesirable victim. He'd cut arteries & vocal chords. Even if E woke up and fought, it would not be for long. Same with X to silence her, but she fought back. He might even have pre-cut duct tape for over the mouths. The police are saying no one was bound and gagged, but did anyone ask about adhesive residue? Or tape left over the mouths?

After he finished, he’d have wipes in his kit to clean gloves, suit, etc. & he’d make sure he had everything counted. That’s why he practiced. He’d put on clean shoe covers he’d brought. Sounds dramatic, but maybe even a hazmat suit or fresh pullover. No need to leave a blood trail in the hall if he can help it. He’d lock the door as he goes out. He’d even use a wipe to open the door and shut it. Why leave a bloody print? He’s visualized this so many times mentally, he is relatively calm.

On the third floor, he knows no one will hear him. He can elaborate there. Possibly a quick piece of tape over the mouth. (I think this may be where he focused/targeted. I wonder if one was posed or displayed a certain way? Something to single her out? Maybe an outfit?)

I think he skipped the first floor roommates intentionally. Only one way out of there, too easy to get trapped. Four is enough, and leaving two alive bought him time. He doesn’t kill the dog. Wouldn’t be the first time a dog has been spared (eg: Meredith Emerson).

Car would be parked a reasonable distance away, but I think he'd find somewhere to wait & watch, if possible,walk to car in daylight. There’s nothing unusual about someone going to their car in broad daylight, so why draw unnecessary attention. Besides, if he watched, he’d get to see how this unfolds. If I were him, I’d know that LE would be looking for nighttime video. Daylight where no one clocks what they’ve seen would be smarter. Maybe a clean change of clothes hidden someplace?
The cops will investigate predictably (most obvious first), so he will have time to distance himself.

Everyone wonders why no one heard anything, but my thoughts: First floor is built into the ground, so silencing effect. Add in: Alcohol. Asleep. White noise machines. Headphones. And the ability to sleep through a lot when you live with four or five people. Sounds like no one saw blood in the hallways. The first floor roommates sleep late, so hours before they realize there is a problem, and once they do think there’s a problem, it’s not like they’ll suspect a murder right away. He’s got quite a few hours after dawn. Might have even left a camera or mic in the house. By the time LE start to put the pieces together, he will have moved on. I think that’s why the FBI BAU are on site - and called pretty early, too. Again, all just my opinion/imagination/too many movies/books.
Click to expand...

Nice and detailed. He may also insert himself into the fold somehow by posting in related forums.

My opinion.
 
SUSAN ANN said:
I’m rather new to this sleuthing stuff. For those of you that have been following crimes, if the FBI really thinks a police department is incompetent, would they take over the investigation or just help quietly behind the scenes?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking the state attorney general or the state governor would need to make that call. I could be wrong.
 
debbiediablo said:
I never said the killer wouldn't have access to the third floor steps. They are present but not clearly marked on the DailyMail version. What I did say is the steps to the third floor are opposite those to the first floor which could lead to not even seeing them in the dark were Ethan and Xana in Bedroom 3 or if they came out of either bedroom to confront the killer. Ethan's parents said his body was found in a hall, and it has been posted here that the intruder entered through the kitchen slider. Neither of these were confirmed by LE.View attachment 382272
Click to expand...
Wow - thanks! Can I ask where these come from. For me, they clarify something on the third floor I’d not seen/missed: the common closet ~not~ in either bedroom.

Might be a great place to hide out while waiting for everyone to settle in for the night - moo.
 
I don't have time to see if anyone has pointed this out yet so I apologize if I am repeating someone.

Bear with me if I rely on my rather weak memory and/or assumptions but the 911 call being held up makes me believe that the "target" has to have been either X or E.

My logic is this: I believe E’s friends came over to pick him up for work. The obvious route would be through the sliding door but even if coming from below the friend would go straight to X’s room. What ever the friend saw there caused them to react and wake the surviving roommates and call 911. I *strongly* doubt most people confronted with the horror that must be in X’s room would do anything other than exit the house immediately and call 911. When they call 911 and describe what they saw they must describe what the police refer to why they think it is a targeted killing. That means that the 911 call would most likely ONLY describe X’s room or at least the 2nd floor so if the target evidence is there it has to be either X or E.

Yes that is a bit of a spaghetti loop. TLDR: If the 911 call contains target evidence then X or E must be target
 
Sister Golden Hair said:
First post, so I hope I don't mess this up, and I apologize for the length but I just wanted to get all the comments from my head into one place. I’ve been watching and reading (though unable to keep up it’s moving so fast). JMO: I do not think that this was an acquaintance who just got upset. I do not think this was just a jealous boyfriend. It takes more than fortitude to slaughter four people in this style. The fact that an obvious suspect has not been identified means that these murders are different than the norm, and today's pc didn't dissuade me from my opinion, but ICBW & hope I am.

I think this guy is a prepared thrill killer/serial guy who has been watching and waiting for a while. He may have left a lot of DNA from the victims and a bloody mess, but the “mess” seems to have been limited to the areas where the murders took place, not all over the house. Here are some thoughts and what may be a plausible scenario.

It’s not his first killing. Animals, of course, but (and this is only a guess), there is also at least one human victim prior to this. Those humans would may be those unlikely to be missed (homeless, prostitute, etc.), taken so that he could practice his trade unnoticed. Obvs in another town, maybe another state. This killing, though, I think he wanted to announce his presence to authorities, show how smart and skilled he is, esp if he didn't get enough notice before. Four people-that's brazen, that's a big calling card. Maybe that’s why LE (via the families, etc.) used the “made a mess” statement to bait him, hoping he'd respond. He’ll love all of the focus, but maybe irked by that “sloppy” remark, because (his thinking) if he’s so sloppy, why no footprints in and out? Why wasn’t there blood on the doors? How did he murder four people so easily and leave no obvious signs for the two he left alive?

He’d have watched, waited, practiced. From the wooded area behind the house at night, from social venues where he was able to unobtrusively follow these girls. On social media. He’d have eaten at the Mad Greek to see them in person. Paid cash, of course. He’d have done several recons to make sure he knew their patterns. He may have even been in the house when they were gone.

He’d have a full kit packed -a small, unobtrusive backpack. Shoe covers, maybe a buzz cut, but not totally shaved head and hair net w/double-sided wig tape to scalp so it couldn’t fall off, OVOS gloves, mask (don’t want to leave spittle). I think he’d go early and on foot for most or all of the way. He’d wait in the wooded area behind the house, prep there, not wait in the house, because of risk of discovery. Easier to get in while they’re asleep rather than get out if discovered while they were still awake. Getting caught for a B&E would ruin his future plans.

I think he’d have gone in through the second floor sliding door after he was sure everyone was asleep, not through the first door with the keypad, even though he might know their code. I believe the first floor only has one possible exit. He would not let himself be trapped. On the second floor, he would have three potential door exits. Even on the 3rd floor, more options and he’s in good shape, so he could jump from the third story window or deck, if needed.

He’d go to the second floor bedroom first. E, the biggest and potentially undesirable victim. He'd cut arteries & vocal chords. Even if E woke up and fought, it would not be for long. Same with X to silence her, but she fought back. He might even have pre-cut duct tape for over the mouths. The police are saying no one was bound and gagged, but did anyone ask about adhesive residue? Or tape left over the mouths?

After he finished, he’d have wipes in his kit to clean gloves, suit, etc. & he’d make sure he had everything counted. That’s why he practiced. He’d put on clean shoe covers he’d brought. Sounds dramatic, but maybe even a hazmat suit or fresh pullover. No need to leave a blood trail in the hall if he can help it. He’d lock the door as he goes out. He’d even use a wipe to open the door and shut it. Why leave a bloody print? He’s visualized this so many times mentally, he is relatively calm.

On the third floor, he knows no one will hear him. He can elaborate there. Possibly a quick piece of tape over the mouth. (I think this may be where he focused/targeted. I wonder if one was posed or displayed a certain way? Something to single her out? Maybe an outfit?)

I think he skipped the first floor roommates intentionally. Only one way out of there, too easy to get trapped. Four is enough, and leaving two alive bought him time. He doesn’t kill the dog. Wouldn’t be the first time a dog has been spared (eg: Meredith Emerson).

Car would be parked a reasonable distance away, but I think he'd find somewhere to wait & watch, if possible,walk to car in daylight. There’s nothing unusual about someone going to their car in broad daylight, so why draw unnecessary attention. Besides, if he watched, he’d get to see how this unfolds. If I were him, I’d know that LE would be looking for nighttime video. Daylight where no one clocks what they’ve seen would be smarter. Maybe a clean change of clothes hidden someplace?
The cops will investigate predictably (most obvious first), so he will have time to distance himself.

Everyone wonders why no one heard anything, but my thoughts: First floor is built into the ground, so silencing effect. Add in: Alcohol. Asleep. White noise machines. Headphones. And the ability to sleep through a lot when you live with four or five people. Sounds like no one saw blood in the hallways. The first floor roommates sleep late, so hours before they realize there is a problem, and once they do think there’s a problem, it’s not like they’ll suspect a murder right away. He’s got quite a few hours after dawn. Might have even left a camera or mic in the house. By the time LE start to put the pieces together, he will have moved on. I think that’s why the FBI BAU are on site - and called pretty early, too. Again, all just my opinion/imagination/too many movies/books.
Click to expand...
That's really good. Don't think he did the hazmat suit thing though. Kinda wonder about daylight? BTW, there does not appear to be street lights in the area. Could have easily parked a block away too...

I agree with this motive for avoiding the first floor. It's a "vibe" I get and couldn't articulate, but I think you stated it: "Too risky, could get trapped".....
I don't feel he left a mic or camera, (he would get caught that way) but everything else is pretty much how I think.
 
Last edited:
L.laricina said:
There was mention of the wifi router and whether it logged any connections to cell phones and I believe LE indicated that they had looked into that. As far as cell phone pings on towers, I haven't heard. I did notice a water tower very near to the house and, in my rural county cellular equipment is typically mounted on water towers where they are available. If that's the case in Moscow, then I'm not sure anyone was out of range of that tower, or if there is another tower in town.
Click to expand...
We have several towers in town.

I don’t think the Wi-Fi router question was answered because I don’t think Chief Fry understood it - MOO.

Our PA Bill Thompson said he’s issued search warrants for cellular data, SM, etc, but I don’t know how long those take to get back & analyze — any ideas?
 
Garshin said:
I appreciate all the work you have done with the floorplans. I'm just wondering how do you make sense of the 11th picture in the zillow listing? Doesn't the location of bathroom have to be where you and I had it initially? I can't see a way how the bathroom is in the middle. Am I crazy? I'm sure it doesn't really make much of a difference in the long run but I guess I'm just curious.
7823e4607a10db712994adf8548aeee2-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.webp

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow
Click to expand...
Like this?

1669263994566.png
 
BigTex said:
I don't have time to see if anyone has pointed this out yet so I apologize if I am repeating someone.

Bear with me if I rely on my rather weak memory and/or assumptions but the 911 call being held up makes me believe that the "target" has to have been either X or E.

My logic is this: I believe E’s friends came over to pick him up for work. The obvious route would be through the sliding door but even if coming from below the friend would go straight to X’s room. What ever the friend saw there caused them to react and wake the surviving roommates and call 911. I *strongly* doubt most people confronted with the horror that must be in X’s room would do anything other than exit the house immediately and call 911. When they call 911 and describe what they saw they must describe what the police refer to why they think it is a targeted killing. That means that the 911 call would most likely ONLY describe X’s room or at least the 2nd floor so if the target evidence is there it has to be either X or E.

Yes that is a bit of a spaghetti loop. TLDR: If the 911 call contains target evidence then X or E must be target
Click to expand...
People are so stupid to think they are owed the 911 call being released. This is all crucial evidence. It's a crime scene x 4. Thanks for your thoughts it makes a lot of sense
 
Since there are no leads, I've just been reading through the police logs, for the weeks leading up to this incident. There is a report for the PiPhi house on 11/6 about an unconscious 19 yo female. PiPhi is the sorority I believe all of the roommates except for KG belonged to. Just throwing darts at this point. Completely MOO

www.ci.moscow.id.us

MPD Press Log 11/6/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us www.ci.moscow.id.us
 
Just wanted to wish all the members, moderators, and all those involved a Happy Thanksgiving. Gonna take the day off and enjoy time with family. My heart goes out to the victims families. Thanksgiving will never be the same for them. They will be in my prayers.
 
otto said:
Confirmed here:

View attachment 382280

DailyMail
Click to expand...
What was confirmed there? That says where the victims were, what I am saying is that just because the two surviving roommates where sleeping downstairs that does not mean one of their actual bedrooms was downstairs. If you look at pictures and match it up with the floor plan the landlord released you will be able to see that both of the 2nd floor bedrooms were occupied MOO
 
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