ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[kittythehare]

Here's my theory of what happened....the killer was targeting one of the blonde girls (he may not have known their names or who was who). He followed them home from their evening out or he was watching the house until they got home. He saw them go in the house through the back sliding door. He was unaware of the 2 girls downstairs or of E and X who had arrived home earlier. He waited until the lights were out in the house and they were asleep hoping to not wake anyone up.

As he was coming in the sliding glass door - which was opposite of E and X's room - he woke Ethan up. Ethan got up to check out the noise and encountered the guy. They struggled and the guy stabbed E. The fight woke up X and she tried to stop it and got stabbed, too. Hence, the messiness of the scene described as blood everywhere, the comments that they weren't all found in their beds, X's parents saying that she fought for her life, and the 2 downstairs roommates finding someone unresponsive (in the common area of the house leading to the 911 call.

Then, the guy goes upstairs to the third floor still looking for his intended target. The first bedroom is empty. The second bedroom is where K and M were sleeping. This is a surprise to the guy - he didn't expect them to be in the same room. He can't kill one without killing the other. He stabs one girl and immediately stabs the other. They have no time to react. Then, he stabs them repeatedly in their beds until he kills them. Hence, LE said they were sleeping in their beds when they were killed.

I think he didn't kill the 2 girls in the bedrooms on the first floor downstairs for any or all of these reasons: 1) He found and killed his target victim on the third floor. The other 3 were killed because they were "collateral damage" that prevented him from getting to his intended victim. Once he killed his intended victim, he was done. 2) He didn't realize that there was another floor with more bedrooms and more roommates. Or, 3) Their bedroom doors were locked.

(As a side note - I ALWAYS sleep with my bedroom door locked in my own home. I read that having a locked bedroom door is one more barrier before someone gets to you. It will give you a few seconds to wake up, react and possibly call 911 or take measures to protect yourself).

So, that's my theory. What do you think of it?

Could well have gone down just like that.
I'm just not at all sure of what 'targeted' refers.
Could be
survivors
building/street
university
orgs of which they were members
women in general-incel and E intervened..
It's really difficult to even hazard a guess.

 

[JSTANOVICE]

I Thought That Comment Was odd Too, And it could’ve been meant for POI as well, They want to make sure he attends someone’s funeral So they can watch his reactions

Either Way I think it was a sort of hidden message and An Odd thing To say

 

[debbiediablo]

I don't think they have said that. I think they have said that they were likely asleep when attacked but have declined to answer when specifically asked if they were all found in bed. I think at least one was not found in bed but that is only based in inference from what has been said. To paraphrase the police chief...sometimes you can learn as much from what the police don't say as you learn from what they do say.

This is how I interpreted LE comments, too.

 

[rahod1]

This is my theory too or a variation thereof. The 4 were in a common area. The killer came by and either arrived angry or the argument developed quickly.

Kand M were inebriated and may have inserted themselves rather vehemently in defense of friends. In the killers mind, all 4 had wronged him, insulted him …but not the sleeping roommates on the lower level.

Were surviving roommates home and awake at the time of this possible *altercation*? I would think they would have witnessed this.

 

[SkyBoomer]

Was Maddie an only child?

Yes

 

[Zella]

Thank you! Yeah I looked it up on UI's website and it starts in August. But how long is it? Is it a semester long process and then selection? If so, could still be an angle to look into.

When I was typing that, I thought that perhaps a pledge or junior brother could've been hitting on Xena at the party and senior brother Ethan could've stepped in to stop it. If said pledge or junior brother was both narcissistic and inebriated, well...

At my university, it was rush week, and then by the next week, they were either in or out. Of course, it could vary for each university on the timeline.

I do think it is possible something happened at the frat party.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

Is the statement that the similar murders discussed all occurred on the 13th of the month correct ? I have read "on, or near, the 13th" .

Thanks for clarifying with sources

 

[Zinn]

Was Maddie an only child?

According to KG’s parents, yes.

 

[Sunny Texas]

Last night someone posted a Daily Mail report on the floorplans. If accurate, and if he entered thru the sliding doors as seems obvious to me, the killer had to go across a couple of rooms to access the stairway to 3rd floor. He had to have figured out where the staircase would be, from patient outside stalking. I doubt many know of Zillow to find floorplans. I didn't. It's extremely unlikely, imo, that he attacked the couple on the second floor first.

If he entered through the sliding kitchen doors, the stairway to the 3rd level was immediately adjacent to the right of the kitchen. I disagree that many don't know of Zillow. Most people who have bought or sold houses know about it and many who have rented do. I'm not sure which couple he attacked first. I think that will depend on his possible target(s) and motivation. If he entered only inttending to kill the girls on the 3rd level, it makes more sense to me that he would have crossed the kitchen, turned right, gone up the stairs, killed them, then exited out M's window, dropping from the balcony or using the tree adjacent to it to get down. Alternately, he could have entered on the 3rd floor and exited out the kitchen sliding doors. If he didn't intend to kill E&X, I can foresee a scenario where someone, likely E, woke up and saw and/or confronted him as he came downstairs or before he headed upstairs. What is harder for me to envision is if E or X were the target(s), why would he go to the 3rd level and kill M&K? They were both likely passed out from intoxication and unlikely to have gone downstairs to the 2nd level to confront the killer, so if E or X were the targets, the killer would have never left the 2nd floor.

The only reasons I see for the killer to kill all 4 were these:

He targeted all 4 in advance.
He targeted fewer than 4, but the others were aware of his presence and had to be killed because they were witnesses.
He targeted fewer than 4, but the others awakened and saw him or tried to confront him.
He targeted fewer than 4, but he enjoyed killing so much that he kept going.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I think it UNLIKELY that the perpetrator used that place to hide until the students came home too, but when viewing all the other photos of the house, it is the ONLY place on the 2nd and 3rd floors that I could imagine a person hiding in wait until the students came home and went to sleep. If a person stayed nearby waiting and observing the house, I think it far more likely the person waited outside and in the dark, hidden by the trees at back of the property (between the house and the parking lot of the 2-building apartment complex).

Theresa common closet on the third floor according to some floor plans posted here.

 

[NuttMegg]

Here's my theory of what happened....the killer was targeting one of the blonde girls (he may not have known their names or who was who). He followed them home from their evening out or he was watching the house until they got home. He saw them go in the house through the back sliding door. He was unaware of the 2 girls downstairs or of E and X who had arrived home earlier. He waited until the lights were out in the house and they were asleep hoping to not wake anyone up.

As he was coming in the sliding glass door - which was opposite of E and X's room - he woke Ethan up. Ethan got up to check out the noise and encountered the guy. They struggled and the guy stabbed E. The fight woke up X and she tried to stop it and got stabbed, too. Hence, the messiness of the scene described as blood everywhere, the comments that they weren't all found in their beds, X's parents saying that she fought for her life, and the 2 downstairs roommates finding someone unresponsive (in the common area of the house leading to the 911 call.

Then, the guy goes upstairs to the third floor still looking for his intended target. The first bedroom is empty. The second bedroom is where K and M were sleeping. This is a surprise to the guy - he didn't expect them to be in the same room. He can't kill one without killing the other. He stabs one girl and immediately stabs the other. They have no time to react. Then, he stabs them repeatedly in their beds until he kills them. Hence, LE said they were sleeping in their beds when they were killed.

I think he didn't kill the 2 girls in the bedrooms on the first floor downstairs for any or all of these reasons: 1) He found and killed his target victim on the third floor. The other 3 were killed because they were "collateral damage" that prevented him from getting to his intended victim. Once he killed his intended victim, he was done. 2) He didn't realize that there was another floor with more bedrooms and more roommates. Or, 3) Their bedroom doors were locked.

(As a side note - I ALWAYS sleep with my bedroom door locked in my own home. I read that having a locked bedroom door is one more barrier before someone gets to you. It will give you a few seconds to wake up, react and possibly call 911 or take measures to protect yourself).

So, that's my theory. What do you think of it?

i'm with you, just that I think E got up as killer was coming down. Then both on 2nd floor had to be killed. X would have been awake by then, and as killer entered, she backed up and died just above where the red substance ran down. Then he left in a hurry cuz he thought the girls below might have heard.

Someone recently posted a perfect vid showing the positions of the bedrooms above/below on tne respective floors, and how likely sound would have traveled, depending on insulation, etc.


Imo

 

[Tillyjames]

Was Maddie an only child?
yes

 

[debbiediablo]

Could well have gone down just like that.
I'm just not at all sure of what 'targeted' refers.
Could be
survivors
building/street
university
orgs of which they were members
women in general-incel and E intervened..
It's really difficult to even hazard a guess.

I, too, think this is pretty much what happened but the attacks on the girls upstairs could've taken place first which woke Ethan and then Xana. I don't know who I think was first, second, etc., but I do think the girls in the basement were either not known to be there or unnecessary collateral damage. I think the killer watched the house to ascertain that everyone went out on Saturday night and were likely to come home alcohol impaired although, given that four of the five are blondes who resemble each other a lot, maybe he missed the two living on the first floor. As for the dog, it was living in shared custody along with four others who were not its owners plus a lot of people coming in and out. Dogs are pack animals. I think the dog greeted the survivors when they arrived home and went to bed with one of them. K was calling JD to determine whether he had taken the dog or if it got out. It could've been let out of the bedroom anytime after the murders without the survivor noticing anything amiss.

 

[Bnic84]

I Thought That Comment Was odd Too, And it could’ve been meant for POI as well, They want to make sure he attends someone’s funeral So they can watch his reactions

Or surveillance footage showing no one ever leaving the house? Or something along those lines?

 

[Bnic84]

Or maybe photos that might prove someones alibi is a lie?

 

[Kdot112]

The dog was associated with 4 murders and may have required assessment for evidence before being turned over to animal control.

If the dog i

It’s possible, but I get super uncomfortable reading suggestions on other forums that the survivors know more about what happened that early morning and that their later movements/reactions are sus. I think those poor young women are traumatized and IMO they have already given LE everything they can— shared all they know.

I don’t think they are “useless” as the other poster said, but I do not think they are holding back valuable info from LE. They don’t know anything, IMO.

the original discussion was not about them willfully holding back info to law enforcement. It was about if they could possibly have important information. I still think they do and LE has probably already extracted it.

 

[Dr. Farce]

Or maybe photos that might prove someones alibi is a lie?

This. Exactly this.

 

[Sillybilly]

And a search and rescue whistle by the bed. Even if you're too scared to scream, you can use the whistle and the good ones are downright frightening

Car keys by the bed and hit the Panic button. Criminals don't like alarms and things that attract attention to them.

 

[Sunny Texas]

First floor in the USA/Canada, Ground Floor in all other English speaking countries.

That's not quite right. The first floor is the ground level entered from the front. For example, I live in a house that is the reverse of the one here. From the front, my house appears to have 1 floor, which is ground level and would be called the 1st floor. From the back, my house has a walkout basement that is ground level and appears to be 2 floors. I my case, I wouldn't call my walkout basement at ground level the 1st floor, because it is not the main entrance to the house from the street side. In my case, I would say I have a 1 story house with the a walkout basement underneath it. Because the Idaho walkout basement is the front entrance of the house facing the street, I would say it is a 3 story house, where the 1st floor is a ground level walkout basement.

 

[Tomagachi]

When is rush? Could it have been someone turned down for brotherhood? Recently expelled from the chapter?

Some normal folks take these kinds of things very seriously. I imagine a narcissist would lose his chit.

The last Rush was in August right before school started