ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[watson1]

K and M didn't go straight home from the club. They went to the food truck (walking?). Does that mean that the perp is on video there? They didn't walk home from the food truck, so what was the killer's mode of transport?

Suspect follows them out of the club; sees them get food at food truck, and gets into his car. Follows their ride home and now knows where they live. Comes back about 1.5-2 hours later. Premeditated. Why LE wants the videos/photos. They want to track the suspect's movements. They need to prove intent.

 

[PeyoteFever]

People are focusing on the 911 call being weird, but did y’all forget that these are college kids? They were almost certainly in a state of shock and not thinking straight. Denial is a common defense mechanism. Maybe they used the word unconscious because they didn’t want to internalize that their friends got butchered by some psycho? Grieving is a process. I think the fact that LE ruled them out pretty much from the beginning says a lot.

 

[indicolite22]

I agree, the police have an idea who did this as well.

Also, I find it strange that the roommates who survived, called their friends after finding “an unconscious roommate.”
We know from the parents of the victim, that the crime scene was “messy.” This leads me to believe we are either being kept in the dark, or the roommates are lying. They would have to have seen all the blood and carnage to just see one victim, and they decided to call friends instead of calling the police or for real help. Not buying this. Roommates no more or we don’t really know what they told police.

No way the killer was a stranger, unless he is the luckiest person alive. There were to many victims and variables, like the dog. The killer knew the dog wasn’t an issue and that it wouldn’t make noise or try to defend anyone. The killer could have even been seen in the house and the victims wouldn’t have had a second thought. The victims know who he is and wouldn’t have reacted if they did see him.

The surviving housemates didn't necessarily see the bloody scenes if those were contained in locked/blocked rooms. Rather than unconscious their roommates were unresponsive to calls.

 

[watson1]

Does anyone know how long it takes to get phone records and data? I’m hoping that all the victims’ phones could easily be opened with all the friends/family knowing codes to get into phone. Or does it have to be that LE has to still subpoena those records? Same question on potential suspects. Unless anyone voluntarily turned over their phone, how does LE get their records? What do they need to establish someone as a suspect that would force a provider to provide those records?

The smartwatches and phones are going to solve this crime if it’s a stalker/ person who chose this night. If there was a known argument or beef one of the victims had with someone, that’s another angle to help buttress the case.

LE can get immediate access from the Carrier in exigent circumstances; followed up later with a subpoena/warrant for the paper records. One of first things LE would have done is contact the cell carrier and immediately gotten verbal info, then followed up with warrant. DNA can be turned around in 24-48 hours; sometimes sooner, to LE, followed up by written report later. So timing isn't an issue for LE as to immediate investigative knowledge- only getting the paper evidence takes time...

 

[Emerald1328]

I think many of us understand the families’ frustration with the police not telling them much about the investigation but agree that they shouldn’t share many details. I was surprised to learn from the FBI agent in Brian Entin’s Twitter Spaces that usually the officers and detectives that liaise with the families of the victims aren’t told a lot about the investigation so they don’t inadvertently tell them something they want to keep to themselves. Same with police spokespeople - they don’t have much information beyond generalities of the crime. Maybe everyone knew this, but I didn’t and thought it was interesting!

 

[jshhanson]

Also.....this is EXACTLY what I referred to in my last posted theory. Police changed X and E timeline to being at party til 9p and not returning home until 130a. That's 4.5 hours unaccounted for. There is no way that they possibly have 0 idea where the two were. There is no way they wouldn't post their whereabouts unless it was pertinent to the investigation. Something smells fishy

I noticed the time gap when they released the map indicating the victims movements prior to the crime. I agree with you that it is likely that LE knows where they were during the time gap because they are not asking the public for information on it. Possible that this information would point to why LE believes it was a targeted attack. If so then the target was likely X.
Since LE is not indicating where X and E were from 9pm to almost 2am, and not indicating who was targeted and why they believe that, it leads me to believe they have an idea at least that the perp(s) are one or more of a group of people and are trying to avoid tipping them off as to how close LE is to identifying them. It also has me thinking it is someone they do not believe will leave the area.

 

[JessG78]

I just recently started to follow this case and since yesterday I'm following this forum trying to pin out some points that for me has been kinda loose.

1. Who made the call to the police? Was this person there all night? Were the other 2 there all night?
2. Reading about the injuries all the victims sustained - how can someone encounter a person like that and call the police to report someone is unconscious? I imagine the scene was gruesome and very bloody since a knife was used.
3. Can't the stalker theory be confirmed by her texts with her friends? Because honestly I had a stalker and I was so scared I talked about the guy with everyone...

just some points I still don't get - so if anyone has anything that has been said already and I did not see please let me know

I can only answer #2, as a former 911 dispatcher and trainer…in what seems to be a medical emergency, a dispatcher has to ask if a person is conscious and next if they are breathing. They do this so that they can give instructions to the caller (CPR/wound care/etc) and to the responding units. If the caller(s) was hysterical, dispatcher may not have been able to get much more information. The initial assumption from a 911 call isn’t that the person is dead, it’s that medical help is needed. Since we don’t know all of the details of the call, we don’t know what other info was given, but a person being classified as conscious or unconscious is normal.

 

[Janitor101]

Have you all seen the latest interview of Kaylee’s father? Hard to watch in many ways, but he says something to the effect of maybe there’s a selfie that you don’t think matters, but something from an alibi that was supposed to be there isn’t, like parking next to a tree. That then made me think of the police saying, what sounded like a riddle, that sometimes a video or picture that what isn’t in it is just as important as what is.

It just sounds like he was trying to say that there is an alibi that isn’t adding up. That’s certainly interesting. It could be anyone at this point since they’ve spoken to what, 90 people? Again though, while I understand their pain and desperately wanting to catch the killer, the killer is watching all of this. The families need to stop talking

Agreed. I worry about these high profile cases where a clever defense attorney claims there had been a "rush to judgment" or the case had been "tried in the press". Furthermore, the more evidence that is leaked to the press, the more tainted a potential jury becomes. Who wants to see a judge forced to throw out evidence such as witness statements and the like because it was already widely reported in the press. People need to calm down and let the detectives do their job so that in the future, 12 jurors can be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of a defendant's guilt.

 

[hockeymom]

I would have said sexual. Even though they've said there were no signs of sexual assault, I don't think it necessarily means it wasn't sexually motivated. Maybe the others in the house spooked the perp? Maybe the unexpected confrontation with the male victim caught him off gaurd? Something might not have gone to plan and he just fled ASAP before sexual interference. But he would have most definitely got a kick out of it afterwards. He's probably got off on it since. Sorry to be abit gross.

I wondered the same thing. Without getting too graphic , could the reason they think one particular person was a target be the perp left body fluid on them, if you know what I mean? Horrible thought but wondered if thats a possiblity?

 

[OldCop]

I did a google search after this interview and apparently stabbing can cause bruising. I don't remember the specifics, as I'm not the best at retaining info.!

Yes! Sometimes it’s caused by the force applied to actually stab when the knife his bone and sometimes caused by the handle/guard.

 

[indicolite22]

The coroner stated that the roommates, although evidently not all in their own respective beds, were likely asleep when they were killed. It follows then that any defensive wounds would've then been instinctive and perhaps even involuntary, and as such it would be doubtful that anyone would've woken up and been conscious enough to actually try to fend off an attacker. Something like that probably would've also been loud enough to stir others on other floors, enough so to get a call out to 911 or to at a minimum escape and/or make a valiant defense of themselves/others. I feel like there is little chance that a suspect killed 4 young, strong adults that efficiently if any of them woke up enough to defend themselves or others.

My opinion.

IF the girls on the 3rd floor were targeted and also killed first, but nobody from the 2nd floor interrupted the perp leaving, I don't see the motive for killing anyone else.
ETA: If the 1st floor roommates heard the comotion and went to investigate, there would have been two more victims IMO.

 

[boater55]

I rarely post but I do love to read these forums and admire the dedication to these cases. I just watched the food truck video for the first time and what I don’t understand is what did they use to clear the hoodie guy and what do they use to explain his weird behavior towards the two girls? Hope I am allowed to ask this question. I also would like to say I realize who he is and who he is not; it seems there was a lot of confusion at first about that. Thanks in advance if anybody can answer this.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Putting the pieces together … IMO

The following is my theory about the killer and the crime:

1… I believe that the killer lives near the crime house and can see the back.

2… Motive? This is a party house. Loud! <modsnip - stereotypes>

3… It was targeted - his target was every noisemaker in the house. He had thought about killing them over and over. That night, he finally got to sleep and was awoken at 1:50am when they all came home. The last straw!

4… Being in view of the back of the house, he could see when the second and third floor bedroom lights were turned off. He waited another hour, looking out of his window.

5… (Besides a neighbor, who else would wait with a knife in sub-freezing weather in order to know they were asleep?)

6… He didn’t know about the two first floor bedrooms because he couldn’t see them from his vantage point.

7… He entered a house in the middle of the night, going to multiple bedrooms with multiple victims. This tells us that the killer was VERY confident. A beginner killer doesn’t start with this degree of difficulty. Like the Golden State Killer, he likely started as a burglar.

8… That confidence tells me he has used a knife to kill animals and perhaps people before. Perhaps he gained experience by stabbing sleeping homeless people somewhere in an alley. Those cases don’t grab headlines and are rarely solved.

9… Where is he now? Probably with his parents … Laying low, waiting for things to quiet down.

10… How will LE catch him? DNA, if he left some blood drops. Or, by going through noise complaints about the crime house. He would have called repeatedly.

 

[BrownRice]

I’d like to start a list of what is a fact (corroborated by LE or family) and what is unknown:​

UPDATED to clarify we don’t know if X called or texted dad; police cleared “others” in house Sunday morning.

Facts:
EX were at a party Saturday night
X called dad at midnight (ETA call or text?)
MK went to Corner Club and Food Truck Saturday night/Sunday morning
Food truck persons (? Don’t know exactly whom) cleared by LE
Roommates went out independently Saturday night
Roommates came home by 1:00 am
EX arrived home by 1:45
MK arrived home by 1:56 by private party driver
Private party cleared by LE
MK called J 7 times prior to 2:55. He never answered
J cleared by LE
LE says deaths occurred 3 - 4 am
911 call made by roommates phone(s ?) 11:56 am Sunday
Roommates (ETA and others in house) by LE
Other people (?) at house when LE arrived
Dog taken by animal control and released to co-owner (J ?)
No sexual assaults
Killed by multiple stab wounds

Unknown:
Motive
Who was found where
Where EX went after party
How MK got to Club and food truck
Sleeping arrangements (who in what rooms)
Dog’s whereabouts Saturday night/Sunday morning
Did any of them have plans Sunday?
Did roommates see bodies and crime scene?
Were bedrooms locked?
Were invited visitors in house Saturday night / Sunday morning before crime?
Is blood dripping on exterior wall?
Has anyone been questioned as a suspect?
Was there DNA found?

What am I missing? What’s inaccurate?

 

[archisleuth]

…it's more-or-less an "open" house, meaning all sorts of people come and go at all hours.

Do we know this for certain? I know the neighbor said they have parties and people over regularly, but in MOO I think that has been stretched into it being a ‘party’ house. Having a few friends over is different than a rager. And I would imagine it was more likely smaller gatherings.

In my experience in college, the party houses were houses occupied by men and much less likely women…but that was 20 years ago.

 

[DizzyB]

Does anyone know how long it takes to get phone records and data? I’m hoping that all the victims’ phones could easily be opened with all the friends/family knowing codes to get into phone. Or does it have to be that LE has to still subpoena those records? Same question on potential suspects. Unless anyone voluntarily turned over their phone, how does LE get their records? What do they need to establish someone as a suspect that would force a provider to provide those records?

The smartwatches and phones are going to solve this crime if it’s a stalker/ person who chose this night. If there was a known argument or beef one of the victims had with someone, that’s another angle to help buttress the case.

K’s Dad indicated that they provided her phone info early on to LE. There was a difference in the exact timing of K&M’s arrival at the house between what LE published, and what the family found. Do you think that was intentional or a mistake?

 

[Elley Mae]

IF the girls on the 3rd floor were targeted and also killed first, but nobody from the 2nd floor interrupted the perp leaving, I don't see the motive for killing anyone else.

I agree unless the suspect didn’t know what room the target was in, if a target is true. If target is true and the girl’s on first floor were spared then suspect surely come and went from rear of home.

Jmo

 

[JohnBull]

Do we know this for certain? I know the neighbor said they have parties and people over regularly, but in MOO I think that has been stretched into it being a ‘party’ house. Having a few friends over is different than a rager. And I would imagine it was more likely smaller gatherings.

In my experience in college, the party houses were houses occupied by men and much less likely women…but that was 20 years ago.

No, I'm not talking about an open house in the sense of wild goings-on, but just that there were five inmates and each one had her own set of friends who might have been invited to chill or stay the night.

 

[Le Singe]

Her sister has a timeline, they went to a party, stopped by the food truck, caught a ride home. I believe she has it near 2am. She's the one who found the food truck video. Someone said it looks like one of the girls was filming with her phone there.
Do we know where the boyfriend and girlfriend had been to that night?

the op was asking specifically about 4 out of the six ppl at the house the two you are talking about are the two they didn't ask about (probably because as you state we have a good idea of their timeline and they are on video).

 

[Emerald1328]

I'm with you at the moment. I'm very curious about where X and E were in those unaccounted-for hours, and whether they were together the entire time. I went to a frat-heavy uni and I can't imagine Sigma Chi was the only house with a party that night, but in my experience a brother wouldn't only stay at his house's party for an hour.

This is the one thing out of all of the circumstances about the crime that I want to know (besides who the perp is). I cannot understand why a reporter, either when talking to LE or the spokesperson for LE in their interviews or the reporters in the press conferences haven’t asked this question.

It’s bothering me so much I even sent a Twitter DM to Brian Entin to see if this was something he could get to the bottom of when he goes out there. I never use Twitter but I couldn’t help it.