ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

[ReyInVA]

IMO the lack of security at the house and the playful, carefree nature of the roommates had a lot to do with the murders. This person had been watching and observing for quite some time. He knew when they went to sleep. Maybe they actually never locked their bedroom doors, and the killer knew it, and purposely locked them to leave a signature.

I wonder what the statistics are for homes in the US with security. Alarms, cameras, etc. I’m guessing college students are much less likely to have those things.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

When my mom fainted, the 911 dispatcher labeled her as unresponsive.

Exact same situation. Mom fainted and that’s how they described her.

 

[hopewell]

Also, LE said they have evidence that this was a targeted attack. This is why they don't believe there's a heightened risk for the community. So it does not make sense for the physical location to be a target. First off, what exactly would evidence of that even look like? And secondly, why wouldn't LE be more concerned about targets to other properties?

LE backtracked on the initial "no risk to the community" statement a day or so after the crime and is and has been subsequently telling residents and students to be vigilant and to look out for one another.

I suspect one could imagine plausible scenarios to explain why the house was targeted, but the simple reality is it's extremely unlikely.

The plausible scenario is the DA has now publicly clarified/remarked that it was the house that was targeted.

My opinion.

 

[lucidium]

All of the contradictions from LE are confusing and disappointing. The case is going around in circles.

I don't believe that to be a contradiction. They've said evidence points to a targeted attack, and that we will have to trust them on that. They clearly believe it's important to keep the evidence from being revealed publicly. Now there is a leak with a tiny bit more info is all.

 

[Janitor101]

That is not true. The DA is on scene and talking to case investigators everyday. There are many videos of him walking in and out of the police station and/or the crime scene essentially everyday. One was on Thanksgiving Day if I recall. He is in charge of reviewing evidence, chain of custody, and is a primary actor in what information can and cannot be disclosed to the public. He has to be in order to facilitate an eventual prosecution. That he clarified that it wasn't an individual targeted but rather the house in general was no accident, slip, or miscommunication, and is a profound change in terms of what the public now knows and sadly, what it suggests.

My opinion.

Well said!

 

[SkyBoomer]

This photo of the roomies plus Ethan was taken on the day of the murders, correct? (I still think someone could’ve hidden along the balcony. Maybe.)

That wasn’t taken at the house

 

[Friday Fan]

Local residents have said it was common to not lock doors there. The older couple whose dog was recently brutally killed said that after that happened to their dog they began locking their doors. They hadn’t previously locked their doors in all the decades that they lived there. I have no idea if the victims’ doors were locked or not but it sounds like residents felt like it was a fairly safe place.

I have speculated that the second floor glass sliding door was unlocked, mainly because it can be a pain to lock them and because at least two of the residents had been drinking fairly heavily.

<modsnip - off topic>

 

[jcamh]

maybe. i also think that moscow as a community is very like a dont-lock-doors community? thats JMO because i remember reading things from people at the beginning of all of this that used to/currently live there and they mentioned that it wasn't uncommon to just leave doors unlocked and home surveillance wasn't super popular. also not to mention it's college party house.

hopefully this event sparks something where students within the community take more precaution

When I was in college, I lived in a co-ed dorm that had 900 people living in it that was wide open with NO restricted access or security of any kind. It had all suites with with the roommates in each suite being the same gender. Each suite had an outer door, bathroom and 4 rooms with 2 people per room. I used to lock the suite door at night for extra security, but it never failed without a doubt, someone would unlock it. We had EIGHT girls living behind ONE main door and lots of friends would visit. So, it was easier to leave the suite door unlocked or even WIDE OPEN than it was to go to the suite door to let someone in. I think that may have been the case in this house. If every bedroom door had a lock on it, I can imagine that the exterior doors were not locked. Otherwise, the girls whose rooms were closest to the doors would be constantly letting people in. Plus, as guests left, the doors would be left unlocked unless the girls walked their guests out to the door. That's a lot to expect of college kids who may have been drinking to navigate multiple flights of stairs to let people out.

 

[lucidium]

LE backtracked on the initial "no risk to the community" statement a day or so after the crime and is and has been subsequently telling residents and students to be vigilant and to look out for one another.

The plausible scenario is the DA has now publicly clarified/remarked that it was the house that was targeted.

My opinion.

I'm aware. Here's the full context:

Is the public in danger?
Anytime there is a crime against a person, there is a potential danger to the general public. However, detectives believe these murders were targeted. As always, stay vigilant and look out for one another.

Obviously we have different interpretations of the little info that's trickling out, and that's okay. We can agree that the important thing is finding the murderer.

 

[Friday Fan]

nobody thinks that the perp wanted to murder a house....

The house was likely an easier target than surrounding homes with similar demographic residents (Young, pretty female, socially active, popular etc)

 

[AbstractVino]

IMHO this is definitely plausible, and probably more plausible than some of the other theories out there. I've always thought something like this was a possibility from the beginning of this case, but then I watch a lot of crime drama TV shows/movies - so that may be affecting my view here.

The fact that the perp. came when everyone was asleep, committed the crimes, and left the house without alerting the 2 survivors (and, no - I don't think they had anything to do with this) seems more like a professional, methodical hit - than that it was done by a crazed/spurned lunatic/stalker who couldn't contain their intense rage.

That being said, if it was a hit I somehow don't see all 4 victims being targets. Maybe 1 (or 2) were targets, but the non-targets were killed because they were either in the way and/or because the killer didn't want witnesses?!

If this was the case, maybe the reason the two survivors on the bottom floor were spared was because the perp. didn't have any reason to kill them - given that they asleep; weren't alerted to the crimes; and didn't see the perp. But, it's also possible the perp. didn't know they were in the house.

However, this is obviously sheer speculation & I could be very wrong.

I agree. I also can’t get passed why 2 people (maybe 3) were also killed if they weren’t the target. And if it was X or E that were targeted, why go up to 3rd floor. Maybe the girls walked down stairs and were ordered back up to their beds? I really don’t know why you’d go up if your targets were already killed - if the targets were X or E or both. Just to be clear, this is purely an unfounded theory - but IMHO, one that makes more sense than many others I’ve pondered. I hope we get answers soon. It’s chillingly horrific what these 4 kids went through.

 

[Fascinated1]

Based on this video, put me down for another "bet the farm" claim. The way he phrased this and with other details we have, I feel almost certain that the call was for an unresponsive female (and it sounds like on 2nd floor) in addition to the two victims there and two victims on third floor. If it wasn't a survivor then he sure did a damn fine job of complicating how to state that. He was trying not to give away too much, but IMO in the process, he did.

I'm assuming she saw something, and possibly fainted. Could've even hit her head on the floor when she went down, making her "unresponsive" when other surviving roommate and/or friends who had been called over reached her.

Here's how I envision it:

911 operator: "what's your emergency"
Caller: "my friend/roommate fell and won't get up"
911 operator: "are they breathing?" "Is their chest rising?"
Caller: "yes"
911 operator: "can they hear you?"
Caller: "no"
911 operator: "do they respond when you touch them?"
Caller: "no"
911 operator: "so they're unresponsive?"
Caller: "yes"

Seems as simple as that. We don't know precisely where they were located, but my inclination is 2nd floor based on the statement in the video. All of this technical debate regarding unresponsive is unnecessary. Person was not responding. Period. It's not a complicated word.

And as far as speculation that the killer was one of the people in the house that night? I'd pretty much guarantee that was a fact. lol

But then why not release the 911 call because it would not describe the scene.

I’ve also been thinking of scenarios where the killer was in the house until morning (and cleaned up there) because I’m not 100% sure he knew there were others there. If he thought all were dead, why hurry and get out in the middle of the night? Why not wait until it’s not as weird to be out and about?

 

[natsound]

I don't believe that to be a contradiction. They've said evidence points to a targeted attack, and that we will have to trust them on that. They clearly believe it's important to keep the evidence from being revealed publicly. Now there is a leak with a tiny bit more info is all.

People were led to believe it was a targeted attack, i.e. one person targeted, which signaled to the community they could rest a little easier. Now the waters are muddied because it might be all of the house occupants targeted, or some of them, or the house. Officials involved in the case need to convey clear messages and stick with those messages.

 

[TooMuchGun]

The house was likely an easier target than surrounding homes with similar demographic residents (Young, pretty female, socially active, popular etc)

this house was such an easy target architecturally. Only 1 BR was on top of another

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But with loss of consciousness, they would be unresponsive.

Right, but in many (perhaps most?) vasovagal syncopal episodes the person regains consciousness pretty quickly and usually isn't unresponsive. As soon as you tap them or rub their shoulder, they generally start to rouse. Now if someone passed out due to a head injury, that's different. My point was that someone can pass out briefly, regain consciousness without answering questions, but we wouldn't call them unresponsiveness.

 

[davisrnr1]

But then why not release the 911 call because it would not describe the scene.

I’ve also been thinking of scenarios where the killer was in the house until morning (and cleaned up there) because I’m not 100% sure he knew there were others there. If he thought all were dead, why hurry and get out in the middle of the night? Why not wait until it’s not as weird to be out and about?

Scary to think that, but I also wonder if they could've taken their time and cleaned up.

Not sure about 911 tape. LE seems to be holding a lot close to vest and freely sharing certain other details. Not sure why.

 

[JaimeInLA]

"As students return to campus after the Thanksgiving break, more are coming forward to participate in interviews with the police about the investigation.
One piece of the investigation Painter said police are still trying to learn more about is a gap in time between when Kernodle and Chapin left a party at Chapin's fraternity Sigma Chi and when they arrived back home. The couple allegedly left the party around 9 p.m. November 12 but didn't arrive home until 1:45 a.m. November 13.
Painter said police don't know what occurred during that gap and are continuing to interview students who live at Sigma Chi or were attending the party for more information."

This is ridiculous. It’s been more than two weeks. Why can’t they track their phones? There’s no way to college students went to a frat party without cell phones!!

 

[lucidium]

People were led to believe it was a targeted attack, i.e. one person targeted, which signaled to the community they could rest a little easier. Now the waters are muddied because it might be all of the house occupants targeted, or some of them, or the house. Officials involved in the case need to convey clear messages and stick with those messages.

Completely agree there. That's one unfortunate side-effect of leaks vs. all communications filtered through a "proper" channel.

 

[drmrgrl]

But then why not release the 911 call because it would not describe the scene.

I’ve also been thinking of scenarios where the killer was in the house until morning (and cleaned up there) because I’m not 100% sure he knew there were others there. If he thought all were dead, why hurry and get out in the middle of the night? Why not wait until it’s not as weird to be out and about?

Also, if the second floor slider was left open on a night where the temp is 21F, the interior of that house would have been very cold, thus, the furnace must have kicked in on the lower floor, so it was slightly noisy on first floor and extremely warm. Combine warmth , whirring of furnace with a lot of alcohol and the two girls downstairs were out like a light. They most likely had no idea what happened IMO

 

[Susan A]

Envy.
Here I am sitting in my cheap, but still unaffordable off campus studio apartment with barebones furnishings. Partial scholarship with student loans. Two part time jobs just to be able to afford a treat like a delivery pizza and a six pack once a week. Birds Eye view of of a (to me) upscale spacious house. All are driving nice cars. Always having people over. Laughter. Music.Money to go to bars and clubs and eat out. I’d be spending that on my electric bill. Where’s that other blond girl been lately? So she shows up in a gorgeous Rover this weekend. Over a year of seeing this had taken its toll.
Can’t take their laughter anymore. I need to stop this.
*I know this is rather dramatic, but a possibility none the less.
What’s different this particular weekend? Kaylee’s back in town.